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Wednesday, April 10, 2013

The gold drain

Does something very nasty this way come?
Over the last 90 days without any announcement, stocks of gold held at Comex warehouses plunged by the largest figure ever on record during a single quarter since eligible record keeping began in 2001 (roughly the beginning of the bull market)....

JP Morgan Chase’s reported gold stockpile dropped by over 1.2 million oz.’s, or rather, a staggering $1.8 billion dollars worth of physical gold was removed from it’s vaults during the last 120 days.  Scotia Mocatta’s gold stockpile removals were nominal in size when compared to JPM’s, but registered in at over 650k oz’s of gold, or over $1 billion dollars worth of physical gold was removed from its vaults over the last 90 days.
I don't know precisely what this signifies, but it would appear to indicate a certain lack of confidence in the system among the wealthy global elite.

Labels:

81 Comments:

Anonymous bob k. mando April 10, 2013 9:06 AM  

IM thinks it might be for new margin requirements.

we could answer that by finding the data for 'new' gold being sold on the market. if supplies have / do spike significantly within this quarter or next, he may have a point.

i suspect not, though.

Anonymous Josh April 10, 2013 9:06 AM  

Is that gold owned by JPMC, or just deposited there?

Anonymous Roundtine April 10, 2013 9:27 AM  

I bet it happened this weekend. Someone swapped Bitcoins for gold.

Anonymous scoobius dubious April 10, 2013 9:30 AM  

Don't these fools understand anything?

REAL wealth must be stored in ***rubies***!!

(DOCTOR SMITH VOICE): Ruuuuuubies!!

Anonymous 43rd Virginia Calalry April 10, 2013 9:30 AM  

If the government put a one time tax on bank deposits does it not follow that they would do a one time tax on gold deposits ?

Anonymous Roundtine April 10, 2013 9:31 AM  

Those are storage facilities. Comex is the most important since it backs the paper market. I can't remember where I read it, maybe FOFOA, but supposedly Comex has turned down people who want to take large deliveries. Gold bugs make a big deal of that, but most of the contracts on the CME are settled for cash. If you want corn, you don't go to the CME.

China uses a lot of foreign agents. Perhaps some of that gold is headed there.

Anonymous Pete M April 10, 2013 9:41 AM  

Funny, I was just reading the opposite at Zero Hedge:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-04-09/even-money-printers-are-loading-gold

Anonymous Crispy April 10, 2013 9:44 AM  

In the past 6 months Bitcoins have gone from $20 to $233 today. Coincidence?

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben April 10, 2013 9:48 AM  

Vox, what is your educated guess about the price of gold over the next 2-3 years?

Anonymous John Regan April 10, 2013 9:56 AM  

43rd Virginia: I think you've hit on the most likely explanation. Can't trust the banks with your deposits, can't trust them with your gold either. At least, some people would make that connection. And it's not an unreasonable connection to make.

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 10:00 AM  

Is that gold owned by JPMC, or just deposited there?

Need I say it? Oh well, can't resist: all your deposits are belong to JPM

Anonymous Josh April 10, 2013 10:03 AM  

Need I say it? Oh well, can't resist: all your deposits are belong to JPM

Effectively, yes. No doubt if JPM ever gets in trouble, they'll use your gold they're holding for you in theory to post collateral calls.

Anonymous Matt April 10, 2013 10:06 AM  

Vox, what is your educated guess about the price of gold over the next 2-3 years?

Over the last decade or so, the price of gold has very closely tracked the combined balance sheets of the US, EU, and Japanese central banks. You do the math.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben April 10, 2013 10:08 AM  

I recommend you panic, Josh.

Anonymous Salt April 10, 2013 10:21 AM  

And the DOW is rocketing up, up over 80. This cannot continue. Not for long.

Anonymous VryeDenker April 10, 2013 10:24 AM  

Was that gold ever there in the first place? Recent history makes me wonder.

Anonymous Orion April 10, 2013 10:27 AM  

Got gold?

Now I need to buy some steel and lead... can't get a ccw where I am (only state in the Union you can't. Hurray). But I can start the forms for ownership. That and maybe get a ccw from the state where my house is.

Anonymous Roundtine April 10, 2013 10:37 AM  

I would recommend you panic.

Blogger IM2L844 April 10, 2013 10:44 AM  

My eschatological chili is smelling like it's almost ready.

Anonymous Anonymous April 10, 2013 10:46 AM  

Effectively, yes. No doubt if JPM ever gets in trouble, they'll use your gold they're holding for you in theory to post collateral calls.

If they're _not_ in trouble, they'll just rehypothecate it like MFGlobal.

If you cannot open up your safe and hold it in your hands, it's not yours.

Anonymous Vidad April 10, 2013 10:54 AM  

The international banking cartel has been quite successful at pushing people into paper versions of reality.

I'm surprised it's taken this long for the drains to really start swirling.

I asked a relative with some investments if they'd put any money aside for gold. The reply was "Yes... I have some."

When I asked "In your possession?" the answer was a negative. It was just another phony contract on phony gold on the phony exchanges executed by the phonies at the investment firm he worked with.

Blogger JartStar April 10, 2013 10:55 AM  

If you cannot open up your safe and hold it in your hands, it's not yours.

I've never understood not having PMs in hand. Even an Index Mutual Fund could lose 90%, but unless it is Fallout 4 it will likely gain back at least 50% over a decade or two. If your PM is taken from the "vault" it is in, it is gone forever.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 11:14 AM  

I'll keep my bullets and reloading equipment before PM's.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 11:18 AM  

Nate, you got to watch this idiot women. Listen to the laughter as if you can't reload.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smFsgtJ4NFw

Anonymous Vidad April 10, 2013 11:19 AM  

@Outlaw X

It's not like it needs to be either/or.

I added fruit and nut trees to my stash of certain other items... I didn't choose them over those.

Anonymous Worker Bee April 10, 2013 11:20 AM  

I went to two banks yesterday for my business. I asked a group of tellers (all women but for 1 man at 1 bank) in each bank what they thought about the Cyprus situation and if it was a major topic of conversation amongst themselves and the other bank employees. I assumed it would have been much discussed, and wanted their opinions.

For my question, I was rewarded with a mix of blank stares and quizzical looks. Only one employee in two groups new anything about it: the man, who knew quite a bit about it. The other BANK employees had NO CLUE what I was talking about.

I left shocked, and more depressed than I was when I had entered.

The US really is f...ed.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 11:25 AM  

It's not like it needs to be either/or.

I agree.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 10, 2013 11:42 AM  

It's not like it needs to be either/or.

Just remember, lead and brass can help you hang onto gold, but not the other way around.

If the government put a one time tax on bank deposits does it not follow that they would do a one time tax on gold deposits ?

Actually they wouldn't tax the gold deposits, they'd just seize them in their entirety and issue you dollars (or euros, or Glorious Progress Chits, aka Rabbit Pellets). Owning gold or other precious metals is only something a terrorist would do, you see...

Was that gold ever there in the first place? Recent history makes me wonder.

VryeDenker - interesting thought.

Anonymous ODG April 10, 2013 11:47 AM  

OT: Dark lightning found!

Anonymous Ras Al Ghul April 10, 2013 11:53 AM  

"If the government put a one time tax on bank deposits does it not follow that they would do a one time tax on gold deposits ?"

It is actually worse than that, there's some case law out there that if Comex or whoever has your gold goes belly up, the gold would go to their creditors not the depositors.

The simplest explanation is the elite are going back to the principle of "if you don't have it in your hands you don't own it"

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 12:04 PM  

And the DOW is rocketing up, up over 80. This cannot continue. Not for long.

The Fed is now telling the junkie market that things are improving and the the junkie won't need, or need as much, monetary heroin later this year and simultaneously keeping the smack flowing in ever greater dosages. Meanwhile, the junkie is irrationally exuberant because he thinks he's kicking his addiction as the smack courses through his veins...

Anonymous Vidad April 10, 2013 12:04 PM  

"Just remember, lead and brass can help you hang onto gold, but not the other way around."

Dang straight. When people ask me about survivalism and buying coins, etc., I tell them to get a gun first. First thing on the list.

Blogger James Dixon April 10, 2013 12:06 PM  

Possibly only somewhat off topic for this thread: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57578839-38/irs-claims-it-can-read-your-e-mail-without-a-warrant/

Anonymous Slowpoke April 10, 2013 12:09 PM  

Well the Fed has to get the gold to return to Germany from somewhere...

Blogger IM2L844 April 10, 2013 12:17 PM  

*CONSPIRACY THEORY SPOILER ALERT*

The gold isn't disappearing. It's just moving around. I'm guessing It's being repositioned by the owners of the central banks in order to shore up the skeletal structure of the system. Not their individual portfolios.

The individual player's power doesn't come from the individual banks, which may all crumble, but from their sphere of influence and ranking within the hierarchy of the central bank's authority. In the aftermath of a global financial meltdown, the skeleton will remain standing, holding all the cards, and the world will be at their mercy.

Guess who is at the top of the system's food chain as Chairman of the BIS Central Bank Governance Forum, former Chief Economist of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), former Chief Economist at the World Bank, prominent member of the Bilderberg Group and the Council On Foreign Relations (CFR).

Someone most people have never heard of.

Stanley Fischer:

Degrees:
B.Sc. (Econ) London University, 1965 (London School of Economics)
M.Sc. (Econ) London University, 1966 (London School of Economics)
Ph.D. Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1969
Doctor Honoris Causa, Tbilisi State University, Georgia, 1996
Doctor Honoris Causa, Ben Gurion University, Israel 1998
Doctor Honoris Causa, Tel Aviv University, 2001
Doctor Honoris Causa, University of Sofia, Bulgaria, 2004

Positions:
Governor, Bank of Israel, May 2005–Present
Vice Chairman, Citigroup, February 2002–April 2005
Chairman of Country Risk Committee, Citigroup, 2002–2005
President, Citigroup International, 2002–2004
Head, Public Sector Client Group, Citigroup, February 2004–2005
First Deputy Managing Director, International Monetary Fund, 1994–2001
Head, Department of Economics, M.I.T., 1993–1994
Elizabeth and James Killian Class of 1926 Professor, M.I.T., 1992–1995
Professor, Department of Economics, M.I.T., 1977–1999
Vice President, Development Economics and Chief Economist World Bank, January 1988–August 1990
Associate Professor, Department of Economics, M.I.T. 1973–77
Assistant Professor, Department of Economics, University of Chicago, 1970–73
Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Economics, University of Chicago, 1969–70
Instructor, Department of Economics, M.I.T., 1969
Adjunct Senior Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations, 1994
Director, World Economy Laboratory, M.I.T., 1991–1993
Max Bogen Visiting Professor of Economics, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, 1984
Visiting Scholar, Hoover Institution, 1981–82
Fellow, Institute for Advanced Studies, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, 1976–77
Visiting Senior Lecturer, Department of Economics, Hebrew University, Jerusalem, 1972

Anonymous Feh April 10, 2013 12:36 PM  

VD moved to Italy, apparently to escape the despotic American police state.

Looks like the home of fascism is kinda fascistic itself...

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/international/europe/2013/04/04/375078/Italian-police.htm

"The 53-year-old driver of the car, an Italian man resident in Switzerland, has been charged with money laundering and the gold has been confiscated."

And of course the Eyeties have already imposed bank withdrawal restrictions, raised taxes, and openly flirted with bank nationalization.

Why is Italy a safe haven again?

Anonymous Porky April 10, 2013 12:59 PM  

Why is Italy a safe haven again?

Because their corruption is of superior quality.

Anonymous Orion April 10, 2013 1:20 PM  

@Vrye

With all the IOUs and promises floating around there is always that question. The number of people that can confirm there are significant amounts still at Fort Knox is extremely small - and they aren't talking.

Gold in hand beats gold held in trust or promised every time.

Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben April 10, 2013 1:22 PM  

At least in Italy you know who you're dealing with, which is the Mafia. In America the system tries to portrays politicians as great people, when they are basically Mafia with a smiley face.

Blogger JDC April 10, 2013 1:25 PM  

I have a precious metals IRA, and am seriously considering cashing it in and purchasing gold with it...any thoughts?

Anonymous Porky April 10, 2013 1:28 PM  

At least in Italy you know who you're dealing with, which is the Mafia.

So comforting. If you don't pay your taxes in America you go to jail. If you don't pay the Mafia in Italy you end up like Libero Grassi.





Blogger TontoBubbaGoldstein April 10, 2013 1:32 PM  

Need I say it? Oh well, can't resist: all your deposits are belong to JPM

ALL YOUR DEPOSIT ARE BELONG TO JPM.

Details, man, it's all in the details. This is Vox Popoli, dammit!

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 1:42 PM  

I have a precious metals IRA, and am seriously considering cashing it in and purchasing gold with it...any thoughts?

How long are you from retirement? You've probably got a few years before they start confiscating IRA funds (not to mention the risk of your custodian going "MF Global" on you), but that's risky to try to time. You'll take a hit that equals the 10% penalty plus your income tax bracket, but you will sleep better at night. My personal philosophy is that an ounce in hand is worth 2 in a bank vault.

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 1:45 PM  

ALL YOUR DEPOSIT ARE BELONG TO JPM.

I stand corrected.

This is Vox Popoli, dammit!

Just had a Wheeler/300 moment

Blogger James Dixon April 10, 2013 2:03 PM  

> If you don't pay your taxes in America you go to jail. If you don't pay the Mafia in Italy you end up like Libero Grassi.

And if the Mafia charges 1/3 what the IRS charges? How does that affect the analysis?

Blogger IM2L844 April 10, 2013 2:25 PM  

I have a precious metals IRA, and am seriously considering cashing it in and purchasing gold with it...any thoughts?

I don't know. Timing is everything. But I definitely wouldn't be contributing to it any longer. I'm in a holding pattern right now. Just purchasing useful stuff for my pirate yacht with any excess funds. When I was still buying physical, I preferred 1/10th oz gold rounds and 1/2 oz silver rounds. You'll pay more /oz for the convenience, but they'll be more fungible in a pinch.

Anonymous Porky? April 10, 2013 2:26 PM  

And if the Mafia charges 1/3 what the IRS charges? How does that affect the analysis?

The tea that was dumped into Boston Harbor by the Sons of Liberty was bargain priced too.

Why do you suppose the Sons of Liberty would refuse an offer they couldn't refuse?

Anonymous Vidad April 10, 2013 2:29 PM  

"I have a precious metals IRA, and am seriously considering cashing it in"

Do it.

Your hands > than bankster hands.

Anonymous allyn71 April 10, 2013 3:20 PM  

What kind of knuckle-draggers would want that barbaric, old relic of gold?

What a coincedence, the sametime that COMEX is running dry a large Dutch bank defaulted on physical delivery and is paying in paper.

http://www.examiner.com/article/largest-dutch-bank-defaults-on-physical-gold-deliveries-to-customers


Wonder if this has anything to do with why .22lr bricks are running $80/500rnds on the auction sites? Nah, couldn't be any coorelation. Must just be a coincedence.

For those that are looking for advice, other have said it but I will repeat it. If you don't have it in your possession you don't own it. Limit your exposure to the banking system, it is going down.


For those that are trying to make a buck on this, good luck to you. Just remember the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Limit your exposure, prepare, and pray. About all we have left.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 3:52 PM  

"I have a precious metals IRA, and am seriously considering cashing it in"

Do it.

Your hands > than bankster hands.


Vidad

Remember this. If you decide to purchase Gasoline of food with PM's and the IRS puts a 99.9% tax on precious metals, you got two choices. Everyone needs to start accepting PM's as money or when they cash it in the PM's will be as worthless as the fiat money. People will actually have to go outside the system for PM's to retain their value and not taxed down to fiat values. This can't happen unless we just say to hell with the dollar and we will all trade.

Now we are way over my head how that can work because Wal-mart is not going to along and I can't pay the mower or plumber in silver that is taxed 99.9% if he shops at walmart or kroger to buy his food. This goes way over my head real fast and don't have any kind of answer. This is why I asked Vox about Bitcoin in an email which I believe is is a tulip monetary system. All this stuff is way above my head.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 3:56 PM  

I guess what I am saying is how will we creat the infrastucture to take the bankers out of it? I DON'T KNOW?

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 3:59 PM  

Outlaw, if it helps, think of it this way: should precious metals become so valuable that the gov't is taxing them at such exorbitant rates in order to get its hands on them, then there WILL be a huge black market for them where the can be readily exchanged for paper currency or many of the goods you are seeking to buy. Example: do you think you can currently trade cocaine for large amounts of currency or goods if that is your preference?

Blogger JartStar April 10, 2013 4:01 PM  

If you decide to purchase Gasoline of food with PM's and the IRS puts a 99.9% tax on precious metals, you got two choices. Everyone needs to start accepting PM's as money or when they cash it in the PM's will be as worthless as the fiat money.

If they did this probably 1/3 of the economy would become black market for years, but the problem is any large purchases (cars, real estate) would be difficult if not impossible.

No doubt "gold hoarders" would be the new public enemy in the media. In fact this will happen soon after the big crash.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 4:09 PM  

Example: do you think you can currently trade cocaine for large amounts of currency or goods if that is your preference?

Go to jail, go straight to jail and do not pass go. I don't deal in cocaine. This is my problem I am working out in mky mind, even though I have a relatively high IQ I cannot just yet work it out. But any Ideas are appreciated.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 4:18 PM  

Once again we are were buying PM's at 11 dollars (Silver) and Bullets when they were plentiful and now chickens and non hybrid seeds. That is the only thing that works in my mind. But I am no genius. I just look forward by looking backwards and read history, but without the guns all is for nothing.

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 4:21 PM  

Do you think gold is the moral equivalent of cocaine, or are you simply worried about attempted criminalization of gold? If the latter, I would not worry too much, these types of black or gray markets always thrive when governments attempt repression of that sort and the U.S. government is dedicated to the proposition that gold is a worthless relic from a monetary perspective. To admit otherwise would be an admission that the current monetary is a fraud. If the monetary system collapses that far, then there will be so much civil unrest that it is quite possible that ONLY those that have gold will be able to buy the things they need and want.

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 4:22 PM  

Outlaw, I think your priorities are just fine. If you have excess wealth that you are looking to preserve, then gold is an excellent medium.

Blogger Nate April 10, 2013 4:29 PM  

It means that things are going to go BOOM... and some very wealthy people know it.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 4:35 PM  

If the monetary system collapses that far, then there will be so much civil unrest that it is quite possible that ONLY those that have gold will be able to buy the things they need and want.

How so? I can think of more important comdities.

Outlaw, I think your priorities are just fine. If you have excess wealth that you are looking to preserve, then gold is an excellent medium.

Define wealth. What is a Wheel barrel full of Gold to a Mayan? I think that the wheel would be of much more worth.

I am just asking questions.

Anonymous Stilicho April 10, 2013 4:47 PM  

How so? I can think of more important comdities.

History teaches us that, even in times of collapse, gold retains value as money. See, e.g. Rome, "dark ages", WWI, etc. Sure you can store food, but it has a limited shelf life. Copper has value, but it isn't as efficient as gold.

Define wealth. What is a Wheel barrel full of Gold to a Mayan? I think that the wheel would be of much more worth.

In this context, what you own above and beyond your immediate needs. Wealth can be stored in a variety of ways. Gold is one. Fiat currency is another. Yet another is productive assets (everything from farmland to Apple stock). Some methods are more stable and secure than others. Life is risk. Hedge accordingly.

Anonymous Vidad April 10, 2013 5:15 PM  

@Outlaw X

It sounds like you're thinking too hard.

For all of recorded history, gold has been the "gold standard" for storing wealth.

Yes, in some situations, you might prefer to have hand grenades or gas masks or a box of rubber chickens. And at some points, you may not be able to directly buy what you want with gold.

However, if you have your basic needs in order, are already ready for societal cracks and tremors, gold is the anchor that carries your wealth through from now until the crisis blows over.

It will still have value after the current government is gone and a new agricultural feudalistic society springs from its ashes.

Rice, beans, tools, ammo... eventually their value goes away through technological advancement or the inevitable work of decay organisms. But gold is a tangible, incorruptible store of today's value that time-capsules some of your equity into a future era in which you can reclaim it as needed.

It's not about life during the crash - it's about life after.

Anonymous Outlaw X April 10, 2013 5:46 PM  

It sounds like you're thinking too hard.

Probaly so but at least I am trying, Vidad :)


OK can I go completely insane here. My great grandfather came over from Italy in 1905. He hedged against the rain. The rain grew the crops that he sold to those like the blacksmith that kept his operation going and the Mules that plowed the ground that grew the crops, the garden and vineyard to make the wine and bought the barrels for the wine and the canning jars that were stored in the root cellar with what he grew from the garden.

All this to live through the year along with the wild life which were taken by a gun and the stock cattle taken in the fences built with the trees and the wire bought from the hedge of the rain and weather. To him the weather and the hard work were wealth, to me growing up with a salary for working for someone bought all the things he needed to feed and house him. That was his wealth, things change over time.

So how will wealth be found in the future? I imagine the same as in the past. Bye the way there is a rain crow yelling out my window and has been doing it for two days and it has been raining.

He paid no taxes and all he did was his, and when it didn't rain they suffered, yet he lived through the the Great war and out of the ashes came the dust bowl, then soon after WWII. I worry too much I know, but the next great war won't be escaped.

There are some real smart people on this blog.

Anonymous Go Titans April 10, 2013 6:00 PM  

Someone let me know if I'm reading this wrong but will gold be preferable to silver (even more so than today's difference in price per ounce)when TSHTF? Or will they maintain their relative (to each other) value?

Blogger Nate April 10, 2013 7:07 PM  

"Define wealth. What is a Wheel barrel full of Gold to a Mayan? I think that the wheel would be of much more worth."

God created Gold so that the world could have a functional stable economy. He designed a desire for gold into us so that we would all want it... and so that we could therefore trade things across the planet.

As we get further away from God's standard for the global economy... things get worse.

That...

Is why Gold matters.

Blogger Nate April 10, 2013 7:11 PM  

"Someone let me know if I'm reading this wrong but will gold be preferable to silver (even more so than today's difference in price per ounce)when TSHTF? Or will they maintain their relative (to each other) value?"

People will take both. and you want to have both.

Silver will be useful for small every day purchases. You don't want have to spend an ounce of gold on a couple gallons of milk because you don't have anything else they will take. Dig?

its like only carrying around 1000 dollar bills. You need silver. but you also need gold.

Anonymous DonReynolds April 10, 2013 7:17 PM  

Of course, the point of all of this is not that whenever gold is sold, there is a willing buyer and a willing seller. Both think they are getting the better end of the deal. Those who are selling gold must be convinced that the gold price has peaked in the short-term future....either it will not go much higher or they expect it to fall. (Yes, the price of gold moves in both directions.) Someone with a lot of gold must be cashing it all in right now, while the price is relatively high.

Nothing to see here, folks. Just move along. Return to your homes.

Blogger Nate April 10, 2013 7:38 PM  

"Someone with a lot of gold must be cashing it all in right now, while the price is relatively high. "

If that were the case the price would be dropping considerably. We're talking about a lot of gold.

if the price drop doesn't happen.. then we're looking at people pulling it out to keep with them in case of confiscation or a total collapse.

Anonymous allyn71 April 10, 2013 8:47 PM  

Re-hypothecation- when banks or broker-dealers re-use the collateral posted by clients such as hedge funds to back the broker's own trades and borrowing.



If you don't hold it you don't own it. There is far more paper GLD than there are real gold ounces in the world. Same deal as the definition of money debate with Vox and Nate. There are more "credit" dollars than there are real bills in the world. Same deal with gold, more claims for paper gold than there is real ounces out there. Alot of folks have decided that they are gonna get thier physical delivery and cash in their claims to get the real stuff to leave someone else holding the bag.

That is why the Dutch bank defaulting on delivery is a dead canary in the mine. There isn't enough to go around and the global cabal that is suppressing the price with paper GLD certificates are going to have their work cut out for them to keep a lid on things if this situation continues to grow. If gold is allowed to reach true market rates the fiat party is over.

Anonymous Vidad April 10, 2013 8:59 PM  

@Outlaw X

"I worry too much I know, but the next great war won't be escaped."

By even CONSIDERING the future, you're ahead of the masses. Your questions are not at all stupid.

There have been many wars, plagues and holocausts throughout history. Many times it seemed all was lost. Consider the fall of Constantinople to the Turks - or the plagues - or the Mongol invasion of China - or the sacking of Rome (take your pick which time).

We should live with clean consciences and love our families and friends like there's no tomorrow... but prepare for tomorrow in case it does happen. God works generationally through individuals who both await His return and yet still occupy and take dominion over what they have until He comes.

Even so... come quickly, Lord Jesus. Our hope is not in our preparations but in the Hope that awaits us. I have to remind myself every day of my own frailty and mortality. It's still good to think and plan... being "wise as serpents" - especially knowing there are plenty of serpents in high places.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 10, 2013 9:47 PM  

If they did this probably 1/3 of the economy would become black market for years, but the problem is any large purchases (cars, real estate) would be difficult if not impossible.

Nah, in that scenario, you just bribe the low-level aparats to give you the necessary paperwork. It costs something, but no where near what the official tax will be. An if the aparat tries to charge too much, you instead pay the local neighborhood thugocracy to throw the fellow a blanket party.

See, when the government stops playing by the rules, so does everybody else. Not a nice sort of place to live in, but some people are too stupid to avoid it.

Anonymous Porky April 10, 2013 10:00 PM  

An if the aparat tries to charge too much, you instead pay the local neighborhood thugocracy to throw the fellow a blanket party.

Exchanging one paid thugocracy for another is a bad idea.

Blogger Nate April 10, 2013 10:11 PM  

"Exchanging one paid thugocracy for another is a bad idea."

yet it is inevitable.

Anonymous Porky April 10, 2013 10:33 PM  

yet it is inevitable.

Only if people give up on freedom.


Anonymous Gold Bug April 10, 2013 11:58 PM  

"God created Gold so that the world could have a functional stable economy."
If people are hard up for cash, I suggest this method.

http://io9.com/5895071/how-to-mine-for-gold-in-your-television-set-and-computer-keyboard

Anonymous Jack Amok April 11, 2013 1:33 AM  

Only if people give up on freedom.

Unfortunately, short of shooting them, I haven't figured out a way to stop them from doing it. The rabbits are hell bent on delivering themselves over as serfs to a new ruling class. Wouldn't be a problem if they - being rabbits - didn't insist the rest of us go along too.

Blogger Nate April 11, 2013 9:10 AM  

"Only if people give up on freedom. "

It is abundantly clear that the people have no interest in freedom.

Anonymous Anonymous April 11, 2013 11:55 AM  

Well they were already stealing gold in 2011 so nothing new and they charge you for storing what the have stolen.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/12/attempt-to-seize-and-liquidate-customer.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JessesCafeAmericain+%28Jesse%27s+Caf%C3%A9+Am%C3%A9ricain%29

Anonymous Porky April 11, 2013 1:23 PM  

It is abundantly clear that the people have no interest in freedom.

Then there will be no secession. The south will not rise. It will merely beg on it's knees for a Cromwell or a Robespierre. And it will get one.

Anonymous Geoff April 11, 2013 9:20 PM  

@Porky,

Don't discount the possibility as long as guns are in the hands of non-govt personnel. Not every swinging dick in the colonies was fighting for independence in the 1770s...just takes a few fed-up white guys with guns and who knows what can happen?

Anonymous Porky April 11, 2013 10:29 PM  

@Goeff

Oh, I don't doubt that there are a few fed up white guys with guns.

I just wonder which tyrant they will bend over for after the dust settles.

Blogger James Dixon April 12, 2013 10:35 AM  

> This is why I asked Vox about Bitcoin in an email which I believe is is a tulip monetary system.

http://www.zdnet.com/how-to-buy-and-sell-bitcoins-part-1-theory-7000013661/

http://www.zdnet.com/how-to-buy-and-sell-bitcoins-part-2-practical-7000013662/

I haven't read them, and some zdnet writers are worthless, but...

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