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Tuesday, August 27, 2013

The Wrong Guy Game

Given the inability of the low-IQ set to learn from the mistakes of others, it would appear that there are going to be more and more Trayvons and DeAndres as time goes on:
DeAndre was part of a pattern of hundreds of examples of black mob violence documented in more than 80 cities revealed in “White Girl Bleed a Lot: The return of racial violence and how the media ignore it.”

DeAndre knew The Knockout Game was usually pretty safe. For the attacker, that is. In Meriden, victims aren’t likely to carry concealed weapons. Nor do they fight back: As one player said in Philadelphia as his victim begged for mercy: “It’s not our fault you can’t fight.”

So when DeAndre and his gang of eight to 10 left the parking lot in a Meriden mall just a few weeks ago – soon after the park beat-down – he was confident little could go wrong when he told his friends he wanted to “beat someone up.”

They found their victim a few minutes later. Soon DeAndre and his confederate, Deshaun Jones, were peeling off from the group, heading for a guy walking home from work. Alone.

We don’t know his name or race or much else about him other than this: He was The Wrong Guy.

With their friends lurking less than 100 yards away, DeAndre and Deshaun attacked The Wrong Guy. Then came the surprise: The Wrong Guy fought back. He pulled a knife. Soon DeAndre was dead, and Deshaun was on his way to the emergency room.
Feral vibrants are cowardly pack animals, which is why they only attack in numbers.  But their Knockout Game, or Polar Bear Hunting, or whatever overly dramatic name the media gives the activity, suggests the possibility of the existence of another, even more dangerous sport: The Wrong Guy Game.  Now, it is quite likely that in this case, The Wrong Guy was simply an average white man walking home alone from work, not looking for any trouble, but prepared for it.

But I wonder. If one was a violent sociopath with sufficiently light skin to attract this sort of attention, what better way to legally unleash one's less civilized instincts than to just happen to take the occasional stroll at night through a neighborhood where these sort of attacks are known to happen? If I was a parent of one of these "black angels", I would point out to my little angel that with 8 million conceal-carry permits issued across America, there is close to a six percent chance that the seemingly helpless Polar Bear is more than capable of ripping your head off.

As Instapundit points out: "And if your teenager gets shot while carrying out this kind of assault? He deserved it, and you’re a bad parent for not raising him better. Don’t complain about the gun laws. Hide your face in shame."

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220 Comments:

1 – 200 of 220 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Laramie Hirsch August 27, 2013 3:22 AM  

Folks need to prepare for more feral group attacks. Finding willpower to fight back is key to survival in our new wonderful wasteland.

Thank you, progressives.

Anonymous VryeDenker August 27, 2013 3:31 AM  

If you carry a weapon: be prepared to use it. Otherwise it becomes a liability.

Anonymous VD August 27, 2013 3:33 AM  

I rather like the Keltec KSG 14+1. Do you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, feel lucky, punks? Now pardon me while I switch barrels.

(flick) As I was saying....

It looks like something that would make even Ridley Scott say, "no, that's too much."

Blogger finndistan August 27, 2013 4:06 AM  

"“It’s not our fault you can’t fight.”"

Where is the courage to take on the victim face to face, one on one, not with ten guys backup, not with societal "beat for free is ok, you are just misguided" card in your pocket?

No, courage is hitting an unsuspecting victim from behind, and having 10 guys in backup... In this sense, 100 yard sounds much longer than 30 meters. 30 steps, that is when running.

On note,

Few minutes ago saw a vibrant showing off his newly bought samurai sword to another vibrant. From this distance, I could not make out if it was plastic or not.

Peaceful Finland.

Anonymous anon123 August 27, 2013 4:08 AM  

A black version of Derb's "Talk". Dat be you-know-what.

Blogger Bosefus August 27, 2013 4:10 AM  

Get a Barlow. Conceal and carry. Only 5 bucks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZN92uSUgoVM

These boys have no soul...they got no blues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp147XFLi4Y&feature=player_detailpage

Anonymous Toby Temple August 27, 2013 4:11 AM  

I prefer to call this as It's Only A Matter of Time Game.

Its like playing Russian Roulette while thinking that the gun is empty.

It ain't. It has one bullet.

It's just a matter of time until gun actually shoots that one bullet through your head.

It can be on the first try or on the 10th try.

Blogger finndistan August 27, 2013 4:17 AM  

And just read the news, that "finland is bracing for Syrian refugees", that Finland has "Finland has informed the UN Refugee Agency UNHCR that it is prepared for an emergency intake of Syrian refugees as part of its refugee quota. "..

Yippie yippie.

so if all those beneficial people coming in, and that bein tauted as beautiful, why would I be jailed if I hypothetically would ask

"Ok, so let's bring in the whole population of Syria into the Finnish lands, and take all Finns into the Syrian lands"; since it is such a beautiful place over here, with eight months of non-summer, four months of utter darkness, and a winter where double pants is the minimum, and the ground is frozen for months?

Hypothetical, of course I would not ask such a question, suporting multi culti, and diversity, and open borders and no background checks...

Anonymous AnalogMan August 27, 2013 4:20 AM  

VD, probably before your time, but that was the theme of the movie Death Wish with Charles Bronson. An idea whose time has come.

Blogger Some dude August 27, 2013 4:20 AM  

The only vampire movie I likes was "the fearless vampire killers".

I didnt much care for the "vampire killers", they were pathetic. But I like the portrayal of the vampires. In every other vampire movie Ive seen, the vampires are more alive than the so called living. In this film, and only this film, you could feel just how utterly dead they were. Its hard to call something a curse when it is has so many obvious benefits. In TFVK, you could clearly see that as pathetic and gutless as Polanskis character is, he is a step up from the vampires.

Blogger Double Minded Man August 27, 2013 4:23 AM  

Followed the links back to the story of Marvell Weaver. What I can't figure out is why they are using a current picture of him? I mean, its at least 4 years too current to use. Maybe they should put a pic up of him when he was 12. That would be better

Blogger Francis W. Porretto August 27, 2013 4:42 AM  

Indeed. There's a war on, and sensible persons will do what they must.

Anonymous VryeDenker August 27, 2013 4:51 AM  

VD, probably before your time, but that was the theme of the movie Death Wish with Charles Bronson. An idea whose time has come.

He's older than you think.

Blogger Jamie-R August 27, 2013 5:09 AM  

I had to remind myself, I'm a Christian because of the efforts of Commissioned. I'm still angry. Nothing's changed.

I will just kneel, I've already had a lot of good stuff happen. Grateful.

Anonymous FrankNorman August 27, 2013 5:21 AM  

If I was a parent of one of these "black angels", I would point out to my little angel that with 8 million conceal-carry permits issued across America, there is close to a six percent chance that the seemingly helpless Polar Bear is more than capable of ripping your head off.

If they were smart enough to figure that out, they'd probably be able to find more constructive ways of amusing themselves.

Anonymous Dc August 27, 2013 5:26 AM  

"Few minutes ago saw a vibrant showing off his newly bought samurai sword to another vibrant. From this distance, I could not make out if it was plastic or not."

That's when you pull the Indiana Jones on them.

Anonymous Dc August 27, 2013 5:32 AM  


That's when you pull the Indiana Jones on them"

Anonymous Bob Ramar August 27, 2013 5:40 AM  

Once again, as Lazarus Long said "An armed society is a polite society."

I wonder how long before we get phasers?

Anonymous Jack Amok August 27, 2013 6:28 AM  

...that was the theme of the movie Death Wish ...

A modern reboot could be a good idea. Could save a lot of lives and misery. Jaws scared a bunch of people out of the water. Crazy White Cracker Takin' a Stroll might cut down on the volume of Knockout Games the same way.

Blogger Phoenician August 27, 2013 6:33 AM  

Feral vibrants are cowardly pack animals, which is why they only attack in numbers.

How true - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336813/French-student-18-left-brain-dead-attack-mob-far-right-skinheads-political-views.html

----
An 18-year-old student activist has been left brain dead after a brutal attack by a group of far-right skinheads in central Paris.

Clement Meric,who attends the prestigious Sciences Po, was 'set about and viciously beaten by a small gang,' said a police spokesman.

'Those responsible are believed to be three skinheads, including a woman. All are believed to have attacked the victim because of his political views.'
----

They certainly are cowards, Dipshit...

Anonymous Feh August 27, 2013 6:41 AM  

Phony's story stinks of false flag.

Anonymous stats79 August 27, 2013 6:52 AM  

Phoenician had to scour the world to find an example of white gang violence. I can pick up any newspaper, on any given day in the US to find an example of "vibrancy" in action.
Phoenician is the very definition of dipshit.

Anonymous vryedenker August 27, 2013 6:53 AM  

Why does he sign all his comments with the pseudonym, "Dipshit"?

Anonymous Razoraid August 27, 2013 6:58 AM  

Phony must feel like those moles that you whack with a hammer at the arcade.

Anonymous VD August 27, 2013 7:15 AM  

An 18-year-old student activist has been left brain dead after a brutal attack by a group of far-right skinheads in central Paris.

As always, Phony is being deceptive.

"Mr Meric, who was well known for his radical left-wing activism, was on his way shopping for clothes with friends when the attack happened.
They are thought to have been goaded by the skinheads, who attacked them following an exchange of insults."


So, unlike all the many examples of feral vibrants attacking whites, the French victim wasn't alone and he wasn't attacked unprovoked, without warning, or for no reason.

Best stick to alphabetizing books, Phony. You're just a little troll who isn't tall enough for this ride.

Blogger Huggums August 27, 2013 7:22 AM  

Surprised this didn't happen sooner.

Anonymous Huh August 27, 2013 7:35 AM  

What amuses me is that according to the story, the leader of the French anti-immigrant fascists is... of Lebanese descent.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 7:58 AM  

They don't play knockout in rural areas. wanna guess why?

Anonymous VD August 27, 2013 7:59 AM  

They don't play knockout in rural areas. wanna guess why?

They're too busy looking for the bacon in the rocks?

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 8:04 AM  

"They're too busy looking for the bacon in the rocks?"

Black Lady from chicago: WHAT'S THAT!!???

Nate: **looks confused** that... is a deer.

Black Lady from chicago: Does it bite?

Nate: No ma'am. That's dinner.

Anonymous LL August 27, 2013 8:10 AM  

They start young.

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/08/23398-three-black-kids-brutally-bully-white-3-year-old-making-her-cry-on-camera/

Anonymous Josh August 27, 2013 8:13 AM  

I love that every single time this happens, the mom/aunt/grandma of the vibrant youth screams to the media, "my baby would never do anything like this! He a good boy, a nice boy!"

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 8:15 AM  

where the hell is that kid's mom and why isn't she shooting those little chimps?

Anonymous Tallen August 27, 2013 8:17 AM  

pardon me while I switch barrels.

The KSG only has 1 barrel. Unfortunately it's made of unobtanium unless you want to pay 3x MSRP on gunbroker. KT is supposed to be ramping up production in the next few months though.

Anonymous Josh August 27, 2013 8:19 AM  

where the hell is that kid's mom and why isn't she shooting those little chimps?

She getting her nails and hair did, yo

Anonymous LL August 27, 2013 8:21 AM  

Yeah, Nate, that's what Spacebunny asked last night. I would be beating some ass.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 8:21 AM  

"The KSG only has 1 barrel. Unfortunately it's made of unobtanium unless you want to pay 3x MSRP on gunbroker."

We see 'em at gun shows down here all the time... generally they go for around 1200 bucks.

Anonymous DrTorch August 27, 2013 8:23 AM  

A similar thing happened in my hometown about 10 years ago. A very popular young man and his friends decided to set up a couple of young men (actually asian IIRC) by having a woman call and say she wanted to meet them in a remote location.

It was supposed to be a simple robbery, but the marks weren't quite as dumb as figured and they brought knives. Things went awry and popular young man was dead.

The response? Lots of letters to the editor from old women saying "I hope that $20 was worth it, b/c you took the life of a fine young man." Recall, it wasn't that they robbed him and killed him for $20, they were defending themselves and their property!

The community believed that they simply should have given up the $20 to the robbers, and that they were the guilty party. ('God will judge you'). Not a lot of response when I pointed out that Prov 1 dealt with EXACTLY that situation.

Anonymous RedJack August 27, 2013 8:23 AM  

This "game" was going on in Davenport IA, till Iowa went "Shall issue".

Not as much now.

When the white/yellow/brown boy has a 1911, the game stops being as fun.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 8:25 AM  

"Not a lot of response when I pointed out that Prov 1 dealt with EXACTLY that situation."

amen.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 8:28 AM  

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.htm?T=ksg

by the way.. anyone looking for a KSG... that's how you get them. Buy online and have it shipped to your ffl.

Anonymous Rally August 27, 2013 8:36 AM  

According to the article, wrong guy was easily found by police. They didn't charge him or (at least as far as I can tell) release his name. There is certainly no evidence to dispute that he acted in self defense, but that didn't stop the authorities from going after Zimmerman.

Police deserve some praise on this one.

Anonymous DrTorch August 27, 2013 8:40 AM  

Well this example is a quandry for Phonecian

http://news.yahoo.com/transgender-woman-dies-beating-front-nypd-precinct-201642369.html

"Islan Nettles was out in New York City with friends when a group of young men approached her, learned she was a transgender woman and began taunting and maliciously beating her—right in front of a police precinct in Harlem.

The fashion design student with delicate features was punched in the face, knocked to the ground and beaten until she lost consciousness on the night of August 16."

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 8:40 AM  

"Police deserve some praise on this one."

The police didn't go after Zimmerman either.

Anonymous bob k. mando August 27, 2013 8:41 AM  

Phoenician August 27, 2013 6:33 AM
They certainly are cowards, Dipshit...




no, no, no, no.


in a desperate attempt to drive up his blogger readership numbers, Vox devotes an inordinate amount of time to stalking vibrant yutes. just look at how many posts he makes about them!

OR

embarrassed by the accomplishments of vibrant yutes ( relative to his own life ) Vox spends all of his time trying to crap on them in the hopes that the weak minded members of the herd will follow along in believing that the feral, vibrant yutes have no redeeming values.

OR

be vewy, vewy, qwiet. phuckwit phoenician is hunting voxels.

OR

you know, phuckwit, Vox DID include the qualifier 'feral' in his description. he wasn't talking about ALL vibrants, he was talking about a specific subset of vibrants.

also, Vox uses 'vibrant' as a descriptor for all minorities, not just NAMs.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 8:42 AM  

"Well this example is a quandry for Phonecian"

No way. That didn't happen. Only redneck sutherns do that. New York City is awesome liberal paradise where everyone loves the fabulous!

Anonymous Rasputin August 27, 2013 8:42 AM  

"What amuses me is that according to the story, the leader of the French anti-immigrant fascists is... of Lebanese descent."

It's not really strange, the Lebanese Christians knows better than anyone that letting in a bunch of rapidly reproducing muslim savages in your country is a terminally bad idea.

In addition he's a good candidate for political leadership since the lefties can't tell the darkies apart, which gives him a PoC-shield against racism-attacks, and the far right generally aren't particularly racist.

Anonymous Harsh August 27, 2013 9:00 AM  

How true - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336813/French-student-18-left-brain-dead-attack-mob-far-right-skinheads-political-views.html

Ha, how long did you scour the web looking for that outlier? You really are a moron in the traditional sense of the word.

Anonymous Annie Oakley August 27, 2013 9:00 AM  

In the last year or so I have been wondering why we do not see an operation like this in Detroit. The police "solution rate" for violent crimes (i.e. "we know who did it") is 8% or so. The conviction rate is even lower. The justifiable homicide rate is skyrocketing. In a situation like this, "Gangsta Hunting" would seem to be a wonderful opportunity.

My scenario:

You would need to lay the right foundation before you begin operations. Perhaps announce an urban clean-up plan: "Our wimpy white liberal organization is going to help the people in Detroit by picking up trash. We love the Negro People and want to make Detroit a Better Place."

Arrange a photo-op with the mayor. Invite the media to write an article or two on your "cleanup initiative".

Once you bona fides were established, you could troll a likely area dragging a partially filled trash bag behind you, and maybe a T-shirt with some gushy liberal slogan: "Grosse Pointe Cares!".

Work in teams. One guy will be the lure, standing out where he can be easily seen, the other guy will hang back, under cover, waiting for the signal.

When the bait man is approached, and the threat is made ("Gimme yo money or you daid, muh-fuh!") he signals the shooter by prearrangement: the bait man raises both hands over his head.

Bang!

Issue a press release the next day: "We are not going to let the threat of urban violence stop us from our goal of cleaning up Detroit. Our commitment to helping the poor Negro citizens of Detroit is unwavering, even in the face of this heinous attack."

I think you could take out a few of them without anyone being the wiser.

Anonymous Harsh August 27, 2013 9:05 AM  

I rather like the Keltec KSG 14+1.

That thing looks, um, brutal.

OpenID newrebeluniv August 27, 2013 9:09 AM  

Unpleasant thought inside my own head:

At some point, the reasonable man incurs a moral obligation to hunt down such people and murder them. Even if they are running away. You owe it to that next victim who might not be as prepared as you are. You owe it to that 91 year old man on his way to the Elk's club or that 88 year old woman out for a stroll.

This only happens because most of the time, there are no consequences. Thus, the consequences need to become universal.

Anonymous bob k. mando August 27, 2013 9:09 AM  

Annie Oakley ...

with an interest and knowledge of Detroit ...

interesting.

Anonymous Rasputin August 27, 2013 9:23 AM  

"Ha, how long did you scour the web looking for that outlier? You really are a moron in the traditional sense of the word."

If that's the incident I'm thinking of it *is* very much the norm. In that case what happened was that a bunch of leftwing thugs stalked and assaulted people they deemed to be worthy of attack due to race and opinions. Then they lost the fight they started, and this particular thug was unlucky in that his wounds turned out to be fatal.

Which is just as normal as their fellow travellers in the media painting the victims as the attackers for defending themselves.

The only unusual thing about it was that someone died, and you better believe this would have a very different spin if one of the "skinheads" had gotten beaten to death.

http://attackthesystem.com/2013/06/08/death-of-a-baby-faced-thug/

Anonymous anti-vibrant August 27, 2013 9:23 AM  

At some point, the reasonable man incurs a moral obligation to hunt down such people and murder them.

Dispatching vibrant vermin, being unhealthy to both individuals and society as a whole, is justified. The police do it every day, and murder it is not.

Anonymous fish August 27, 2013 9:34 AM  

Oopsy!


http://tinyurl.com/caught-spoofin

Anonymous MalcolmS August 27, 2013 9:36 AM  

Self defence is one thing, but beyond that, "Vengeance is mine, says The Lord". Unless you are an atheist, then I suppose the law of the jungle applies, with due regard for the SWAT team around the corner.

Anonymous Brother Thomas August 27, 2013 9:40 AM  

If you choose evil, you're going to meet Satan.

God have mercy.

Anonymous Venger August 27, 2013 9:53 AM  

QUESTION FOR THE ILK:

If you cant' carry a gun (for various reasons)...

What do you suggest carrying for protection? Knife? Mace? Flashlight?

Looking for suggestions. I'm pretty short, less than 175 lbs, and have had only basic martial arts training.

Anonymous Josh August 27, 2013 9:55 AM  

Dispatching vibrant vermin, being unhealthy to both individuals and society as a whole, is justified.

Only if it's in self defense.

Anonymous VD August 27, 2013 10:02 AM  

What do you suggest carrying for protection? Knife? Mace? Flashlight?

Knife. Metal blades were successfully killing people for hundreds of years before guns were invented. A little folding knife with a serrated edge on your key chain is sufficient; it's legal, it doesn't cost much or look like more than a thin Swiss army knife, but it can be flicked open with one hand and is sufficient to open a man from crotch to chest.

Anonymous Feh August 27, 2013 10:03 AM  

Self defence is one thing, but beyond that, "Vengeance is mine, says The Lord".

Justice =/= vengeance.

If the state shirks its duty to provide justice and order, then the citizen may fill that role with a clear conscience.

When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 10:05 AM  

"What do you suggest carrying for protection? Knife? Mace? Flashlight?"

I can carry guns... and do. And I still carry knives, and light.

12 feet apart... a man with a knife and a man with a gun in a holster. Unless the man with the gun has trained and practiced a lot.. the man with the knife will close the distance and attack before the gun is drawn and brought to bare.

That is uncomfortable.. but true.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 10:07 AM  

"Metal blades were successfully killing people for hundreds of years before guns were invented. A little folding knife with a serrated edge on your key chain is sufficient; it's legal, it doesn't cost much or look like more than a thin Swiss army knife, but it can be flicked open with one hand and is sufficient to open a man from crotch to chest."

I recommend a cold steel punch dagger. wear it around your neck. You can snatch it off and wreck anything short of an angry bear in a few seconds.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 10:08 AM  

also... hard to go wrong with a functional sword cane.

OpenID newrebeluniv August 27, 2013 10:16 AM  

Functional sword cane is considered to be the type of concealed weapon that there is no permit for in Virginia. Your laws may be different. Just shoot them.

--Hale

OpenID newrebeluniv August 27, 2013 10:20 AM  

Dispatching vibrant vermin, being unhealthy to both individuals and society as a whole, is justified. The police do it every day, and murder it is not.

This doesn't happen all that often with police either. Often, police don't know who did it. When they do know, they often don't have enough evidence for an arrest. Unlike on TV, they can't just arrest them anyway and trick them into a confession.

But murder in this context is a strictly legal definition. If I hunt, and kill, it is murder, no matter how justified.

--Hale

Anonymous Daniel August 27, 2013 10:26 AM  

What do you suggest carrying for protection? Knife? Mace? Flashlight?

The knives above - but as a back-up knife, you can slide a sharpened hori-hori in its holster and strap it to your belt. It is nothing more than a very useful garden tool that just happens to be capable of gutting a hog, if need be. It goes in smooth and comes out a little mean (which can be good, can be bad), so you don't want it as your 1st option - a traditional and thinner knife should be the go to, but you'll never ever get one question about a hori-hori, whether it is concealed or open, (even from dhs during a custody dispute), because it looks like Martha Stewart's petunia trowel.

Plus, the headline "Vibrant Youth Tragically Gardened to Death" would be a hoot.

Anonymous kh123 August 27, 2013 11:02 AM  

"An 18-year-old student activist..."

Wasn't this how Mr. Ulyanov started.

Blogger James Dixon August 27, 2013 11:03 AM  

> What do you suggest carrying for protection? Knife? Mace? Flashlight?

Do you want to kill or just disable. I good knife is your best weapon, but you're far more likely to have to kill with it. For disabling, I'd probably recommend a stun gun. But of course most locales that won't let you carry a gun say you can't carry one of those either.

Anonymous Venger August 27, 2013 11:03 AM  

Thanks guys.

Any specific suggestions on small folding knives (brand names, etc.)?

Also -- I've heard that biker gangs will use a Master Lock (padlock) tied into a hankerchief/bandana.

They use it as a improvised sap. The benefit is if they get caught by the cops, they just untie the bandana, and they've only got a ordinary padlock and a hankie. Otherwise, they keep it in their back pockets, for an easy first strike.

Thoughts on this? Effective? Dangerous? Stupid?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 11:03 AM  

Would the Hori-Hori user have a red thumb?

Blogger Kristophr August 27, 2013 11:09 AM  

As I said before: Sanford Prison Experiment, with some of the "prisoners" carrying concealed weapons.

This will go badly for the blacks the libtards have suckered into thinking this is a good idea.

Blogger Kristophr August 27, 2013 11:11 AM  

Venger: If you cant' carry a gun (for various reasons)... What do you suggest carrying for protection? Knife? Mace? Flashlight?

A gun.

I carried a pistol for years before Oregon went to must issue CCW. Carry one anyway.

Anonymous The One August 27, 2013 11:11 AM  

@Venger

Move

Anonymous Venger August 27, 2013 11:11 AM  

you see this yet?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b00_1377453339

Black kids bully white toddler and make her cry... A group of kids and a pre-teen bully a three year old girl and make her cry at least twice on camera. The cameraman (a 12 year old boy) brags on Facebook and titled his video "When white people piss black people off."


Anonymous The other skeptic August 27, 2013 11:13 AM  

Lots of Vibrants moving back to the South so we will likely see more of this.

Blogger Res Ipsa August 27, 2013 11:13 AM  

I would point out to my little angel that with 8 million conceal-carry permits issued across America, there is close to a six percent chance that the seemingly helpless Polar Bear is more than capable of ripping your head off.

Yes Vox, but that's because you can do math, and maths is haaard in da hood.

Anonymous Alexander August 27, 2013 11:15 AM  

Clearly, those odds are racist.

Anonymous Gunnutmegger August 27, 2013 11:17 AM  

2 points:

1) This story is over a year old. I remember it well since I had been at that shopping mall prior to the time of the attack. I was armed with a gun, of course. It could have been me that got attacked.

2) Kel-Tec designs their (admittedly innovative) products for a 6000-round service life (that is practically "disposable"). Their products have a reputation for unreliability & breakage.

In addition to being ergonomically challenging and hard to learn (as it functions differently than other shotguns), the KSG is even more prone to unreliability than other Kel-Tec products:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/01/11/gun-review-kel-tec-ksg-again/

If you want a shotgun for defense, you don't want a KSG. And for guns in general, don't trust your life to a Kel-Tec, Taurus, or Charter Arms.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 August 27, 2013 11:21 AM  

Any specific suggestions on small folding knives

The aforementioned Cold Steel makes excellent knives of all types, including folders, boot knives, punch knives, etc.
Smith & Wesson has a good line of tactical folders as well.
Gerber is worth a look, too.

Blogger Lawrence August 27, 2013 11:35 AM  

If you want a shotgun for defense, you don't want a KSG. And for guns in general, don't trust your life to a Kel-Tec, Taurus, or Charter Arms.

Go Mossberg. Cheap and reliable.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 11:36 AM  

"If you want a shotgun for defense, you don't want a KSG. And for guns in general, don't trust your life to a Kel-Tec, Taurus, or Charter Arms."

And by lumping Taurus in there... you took all credibility you had and threw it out the window.

Kel-tec's little handguns have known mag issues that the KTOG folks will happily help you with. Once handled they are excellent little firearms.

Taurus makes some of the finest firearms money can buy period.

The Taurus PT series is still the only clone that has ever beaten the original is Guntest Magazine comparisons.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 11:39 AM  

Also...I have a Kel-Tec SU-16c that I have put over 10,000 rounds through. I have yet to have anything other than ammo related failures.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 11:40 AM  

"They use it as a improvised sap. The benefit is if they get caught by the cops, they just untie the bandana, and they've only got a ordinary padlock and a hankie. Otherwise, they keep it in their back pockets, for an easy first strike."

Bikers carry guns and knives. You heard wrong.

Anonymous Josh August 27, 2013 11:41 AM  

And for guns in general, don't trust your life to a Kel-Tec, Taurus, or Charter Arms.

What about Beretta?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 11:41 AM  

I traded a FAL for a Kel-Tec RFB. So far it seems to be picky on its diet.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 11:42 AM  

"Any specific suggestions on small folding knives"

Cold Steel.. SOG... assisted opening is always good. Again.. boot knives and punch daggers are fast. fast is good.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 11:43 AM  

"What about Beretta?"

What are the odds this dude carries a glock?

Anonymous civilServant August 27, 2013 11:48 AM  

What do you suggest carrying for protection? Knife? Mace? Flashlight?

Look into bear spray. The stand-off stream can reach twenty to thirty feet for seven seconds and there are far fewer moral and legal ramifications.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 11:49 AM  

"Go Mossberg. Cheap and reliable."

Clear your house with a that mossberg. How are you going to slice the pie with it?

You can't.

But you can with a 26 inch long kel-tec... and its oh by the way... 15 rounds of doom.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 11:50 AM  

"Look into bear spray. The stand-off stream can reach twenty to thirty feet for seven seconds and there are far fewer moral and legal ramifications."

Ignore this.

I mean...if you want to actually have a chance of living... ignore this.

Anonymous Salt August 27, 2013 12:09 PM  

Nate, you could also go with a Saiga 12ga semi-auto and 20rnd mag.

Anonymous Venger August 27, 2013 12:10 PM  

"Bikers carry guns and knives. You heard wrong."

Yes, I know they carry guns and knives. But what about other improvised weapons? Brass knucks, batons, blackjacks, socks filled with pennies, etc.

Looking for other ideas like the hori-hori garden tool above... ?

(I just bought a couple little knives online, thank you for the suggestions)

Anonymous PA August 27, 2013 12:13 PM  

For self defense: car key, projecting 3/4 inch between your thumb and index finger. Jab to the face.

Poke the back of your hand to get an side of its effectiveness.

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 12:13 PM  

I've sold a ton of Kel-Tecs and only had one come back - their pistols don't like to be repeatedly dry-fired (as stated in their instructions) - thus, this was an operator induced failure.

The Charter Arms are ok, but not great, quality-wise. Atrocious triggers, too.

Taurus - meh. Not bad, but older ones can be iffy.

Never had good luck with Beretta pistols, but that may just be me, we sell some and they seem to do alright. Personally, every one I've had I couldn't hit crap with, or it malfunctioned all the time. Anecdotal, I know, but that has been my experience. YMMV.

Shotgun wise Kel-Tecs are pretty cool. Remingtons and Mossbergs are reliable, reasonably priced, and there is a ton of aftermarket parts, mods, and yes, bling to put on them...

Anonymous civilServant August 27, 2013 12:14 PM  

Look into bear spray. The stand-off stream can reach twenty to thirty feet for seven seconds and there are far fewer moral and legal ramifications.

Ignore this.

I mean...if you want to actually have a chance of living... ignore this.


Feel free. But you may wish to check it out for yourself first. And consider - this advice regarding guns and knives is coming from people who consider themselves "experts" and who expect you to be just as "expert". Guns and knives require significant training and practice and expertise to use properly. And even if used properly they may not produce the results you seek. To use a knife you must allow the assailant to be close enough to hurt you. If you use a gun and your procedure and technique and circumstance and after-action articulation are not flawless or you are merely unlucky then not only will it not help you but you may be facing decades of legal issues and civil judgement payments.

If you want a gun then a five-shot .38 revolver is quite adequate. Any of the standard manufacturers are of sufficient quality.

Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 12:15 PM  

"Look into bear spray. The stand-off stream can reach twenty to thirty feet for seven seconds and there are far fewer moral and legal ramifications." - civilServant August 27, 2013 11:48 AM

So much fail.



Joke I heard from a sourdough when I was a cheechako headed up to the great white north to illustrate the disdain Alaskan's have for bear spray.

Couple of yippies from down south go into Kodiak to get fishing license wearing bells and showing off their pepper spray canisters. They are never heard from again. Couple of weeks later guide carrying a shotgun stops his group on the trail and says "Damn, well that answers that". The down southers ask him what he is talking about. He says "Found the missing sportsman". They ask "Where, how do you know?". Guide points to a pile of bear shit in the trail and says "They are right there". Confused the sports ask "How he knows where the missing folks were from a pile of bear shit?" Guide replies "Smells like pepper spray and has bells sticking out of it".


Anonymous Jack Amok August 27, 2013 12:16 PM  

Black kids bully white toddler and make her cry... A group of kids and a pre-teen bully a three year old girl and make her cry at least twice on camera. The cameraman (a 12 year old boy) brags on Facebook and titled his video "When white people piss black people off."

Now why does this remind me of something Vox wrote a week or so ago, about how he finds that people with short time preferences tend to have trouble imagining that the world could ever be any different than it is right now?

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 12:20 PM  

If you want a gun then a five-shot .38 revolver is quite adequate.

Speaking of fail...t

Anonymous Jack Amok August 27, 2013 12:25 PM  

"Smells like pepper spray and has bells sticking out of it".

I heard that joke too, only it was about how you tell the difference between Black Bears and Grizzlies. After telling the greenhorns to make sure thhe wear little bells and carry pepper spray, you say it's really important to know what kind of bears are in the area. You can tell by their scat. Black bear scat is brownish-red and dotted with berries. Grizzly scat smells like pepper and has little bells in it...

We had a pretty involved discussion last week about what sort of gun to carry in bear country. 10mm vs .45 ACP vs .44 vs .357. All had their champions.

Anonymous nick digger August 27, 2013 12:31 PM  

As Instapundit points out: "And if your teenager gets shot while carrying out this kind of assault? He deserved it."


I hope Instapundit knows he's only addressing Whites, here. Blacks will never listen to reason, when one dey innisint yoofs is tragificly, racissly merderrd. Case in point: the recent N.O. shooting of a "professional burglar" (his own family's words) who invaded a White family's property at 2 AM, by scaling an 8 foot security fence:

"I am totally, unequivocally for the indictment and conviction of Merritt Landry," the Rev. Raymond Brown said. "He shot the child in the head, and he needs to be brought to justice. We don't know what [the burglar] was doing, but he did not deserve to get shot in the head and sit around in a vegetative state."

Blacks will never see past their skin, or yours. Don't waste your breath trying to reason with a tar baby.

Blogger Gilbert Ratchet August 27, 2013 12:32 PM  

Bernie Goetz game!

Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 12:32 PM  

"We had a pretty involved discussion last week about what sort of gun to carry in bear country. 10mm vs .45 ACP vs .44 vs .357. All had their champions." - Jack Amok August 27, 2013 12:25 PM

Where is Rem. 870 tactical 12 gauge with slugs on that list?

Next week need to have a sepearate discussion for "Death Wish" adventures.

Blogger tz August 27, 2013 12:35 PM  

http://mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/8/24/would_be_robber_shot.html

Somehow the advice against bringing a knife to a gunfight seems to apply.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 27, 2013 12:37 PM  

I rather like the Keltec KSG 14+1. Do you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, and you, feel lucky, punks? Now pardon me while I switch barrels.

I've heard of issues with it and feeding, you're probably better off with the Saiga 12 if you want that much firepower and have little or no regard for concealability (though the S12 mags have their own issues). Me, I went with the Mossy 500 with pistol grip and adjustable stock that holds 5 extra shells. I kinda want the breeching barrel as well since you can use it as somewhat of a bayonet.

Me, I can't wait til 1 Sep so I can IWB carry my CZ-97B without fear of getting harrassed for printing in Texas.

Anonymous civilServant August 27, 2013 12:37 PM  

If you want a gun then a five-shot .38 revolver is quite adequate.

Speaking of fail...t


From the article:

"Sheriff Chapman told the paper that he was pleading with his deputies, saying: 'I'm dying. Help me.'"

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 12:38 PM  

"We had a pretty involved discussion last week about what sort of gun to carry in bear country. 10mm vs .45 ACP vs .44 vs .357. All had their champions." - Jack Amok August 27, 2013 12:25 PM

If I had to shoot a bear with a handgun, the 500 Smith and Wesson Magnum would be pretty close to the top of my list.

Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 12:39 PM  

"Sheriff Chapman told the paper that he was pleading with his deputies, saying: 'I'm dying. Help me.'" - civilServant August 27, 2013 12:37 PM

I think that is kinda the point, he is still talking after being shot at point blank range 5 times to the head


Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 12:40 PM  

That said, a .38 revolver is not a bad option for women.

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 12:40 PM  

"Sheriff Chapman told the paper that he was pleading with his deputies, saying: 'I'm dying. Help me.'"

A. He didn't die.

B. You are surely aware that many criminals operate in groups i.e. multiple attackers...

No one has ever said "damn, I had too many rounds".

Remember, the only time you can have too much ammo is when you are on fire, or drowning.

Blogger hadley August 27, 2013 12:41 PM  

Mando, there are so many advantages.

First, only the handful in the inner circle need to know what is going on. Everyone else in the group can be a generic liberal do-gooder. In fact, you wouldn't even need to start your own cleanup organization. The inner circle could join an existing organization and arrange a cleanup at a site of your choosing.

Second, you can up your odds of a quick confrontation and target-rich environment by advertising for feral youth: social media, posters tacked on lightpoles-"Please join us for a cleanup of the old Dubois School, this Saturday, 5pm to 10pm."

You want to pick cleanup places that are remote enough that witnesses are limited and that the feral youth have no real reason to visit except (as will be obvious to everyone) to rob and kill you.

You could probably wear full body armor and no one would start wondering about your real motives. Just make sure you have a few bags of trash collected before the cops show up. The shooter could wear an urban ghillie suit of a few half-filled black plastic garbage bags.

Some police departments use bait cars, you would be using bait honkeys. Like the bullocks pegged down in a jungle clearing to lure man eaters out where they can be put down.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 12:49 PM  

"If I had to shoot a bear with a handgun, the 500 Smith and Wesson Magnum would be pretty close to the top of my list."

454 casul. Taurus or Ruger... either one.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 12:53 PM  

"Yes, I know they carry guns and knives. But what about other improvised weapons? Brass knucks, batons, blackjacks, socks filled with pennies, etc. "

I think all of that stuff can be useful... but none of it will do you as much good some good training and actual practice with a quality knife.

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 12:55 PM  

"454 casul. Taurus or Ruger... either one."

Ayup, that's a good one, too.

And admittedly, the recoil w/the 500 is brutal.
But boy does it make a bang when it goes off!!

Anonymous Josh August 27, 2013 12:56 PM  

Some rabbit is going to be so horrified that the dread ilk are discussing the best firearms for killing large hairy homosexuals. They'll probably start a fundraising drive.

Anonymous civilServant August 27, 2013 12:56 PM  

I think that is kinda the point, he is still talking after being shot at point blank range 5 times to the head

Observe that even with a poor choice of ammunition the .38 served its purpose.

Of course there is much to discuss here. One cannot cover it all in a single paragraph ...

He didn't die.

... but this is an issue that must be covered immediately. In the United States deadly force is justified only to stop a threat and once it is stopped the deadly force must cease immediately. "Shooting to kill" is a crime. People who give entertaining "advice" such as "Lay a man open from crotch to chest" and "He was still alive" poorly serve a novice who is asking for advice on how to deal with a street/legal/police/courts event.

OpenID rufusdog August 27, 2013 12:59 PM  

Looking for other ideas like the hori-hori garden tool above... ?

I saw this on TV (disclaimer), but some biker gang or another would put heavy pad locks in their back pocket and tie a bandana around it. If a fight started they would bring that bad boy out and swing away.
I wouldn’t want to get hit with something like that.

Anonymous John Galt August 27, 2013 1:03 PM  

I recommend that whites start turning the tables. When the packs of sub-humans are out, hunt them down.

Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 1:11 PM  

"Observe that even with a poor choice of ammunition the .38 served its purpose." - civilServant August 27, 2013 12:56 PM

Whether the .38 "served its purpose" here is pretty debatable. That situation could have easily turned out to be quite negative for the family involved. If the man had time to get to his car and attempt to drive away after 5 rounds to the head he was still a viable threat and I am not sure what purpose was served.

'"Shooting to kill" is a crime.' - civilServant August 27, 2013 12:56 PM

That advice could get someone killed. If you are in a situation that you have to use deadly force on someone you damned well better aim to kill. You are trying to put them down as fast as you can.

Putting a coup de grace on someone will get you sent to the pen, but "shooting to kill" in a deadly force situation is not a crime. Even if it was (which it isn't) you are better served to remember the axiom "It is better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6".



Anonymous Credo in Unum Deum August 27, 2013 1:12 PM  

For what to carry: You get what you pay for. So ask yourself, how much is your life worth?

Do your research, rent firearms at your local range and see what works for you.

Don't go cheap on something that may save your life one day, especially ammo. For carry ammo, by that I mean: Don't buy a $5 box of 50 rounds that was rejected 40 years ago by some communist block nation in the Balkans that no longer exists. Spend some of your hard-earned cash, and buy high-quality, preferably hollow-point ammo.

I have Mossberg by my side in my room, and I sleep next to it -- And I sleep a lot better knowing it's there.

For handguns: Glocks. Glock's reputation for reliability is well-earned. They work for me, but for others out there they may not work as well.

If you have more money to spend, then get a Sig Sauer.

Buy factory magazines for your firearms as well, buy lots and lots of magazines. Hide some of those magazines away in some place for a rainy day.

Ammo, look around, find out what cops use, then buy that, put a some rounds of it through your carry gun to see how it operates and if it feeds correctly, then buy more of it in bulk. Hide some of that ammo away for a rainy day as well.

Finally, find a competent instructor, and get some instruction in how to actually fight with your firearm(s).

OpenID rufusdog August 27, 2013 1:19 PM  

Oh for the love of

“Best guns for bears”, feels like I am over at thehighroad, what’s next, 9mm vs 45.

The 22lr is good for bears, eyes first then nose, once the bear can’t see or smell you sneak up behind it and cuts its throat with your Swiss army knife.

That or 9mm, make sure you turn the pistol sideways so the bear knows you mean business, most bears will back off once they have seen you turn it sideways. To be sure, carry two 9mm and turn them both sideways, mountain men for generations have known this to be the best method to stop a bear attack.

Anonymous Orville August 27, 2013 1:22 PM  

Talk about low IQ, the problem has been solved courtesy of Zerohedge...just give the vibrants a monkey. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+ape+with+AK&mid=FA2EB5F8BA3F396B8FE7FA2EB5F8BA3F396B8FE7&view=detail&FORM=VIRE3

Blogger LL August 27, 2013 1:33 PM  

Another The Wrong Guy game. Thug only got dinged in the ass. Too bad.

http://bearingarms.com/buzzkill-thug-tries-to-tase-a-concealed-carrier-in-front-of-his-young-daughter-for-fun/

Anonymous civilServant August 27, 2013 1:33 PM  

If you are in a situation that you have to use deadly force on someone you damned well better aim to kill.

I advise you to consult a lawyer.

Anonymous RedJack August 27, 2013 1:37 PM  

CS.

I have.
If you "shoot to wound" the first question you will be asked is why? If you life was not in immediate danger, then why did you choose to shoot? I mean you shot the guy in the foot, if he was REALLY trying to kill you that wouldn't have been where you would aim.

The lawyer in question is a former US Attorney and a prosecuting attorney for decades.

If you pull a gun, and use it, it had better be in a situation where your life was in danger and needed to stop the action of the other guy right now. In other words, you felt the only choice was to shoot to kill. Anything else will get you in trouble. Stating "I only tried to wound the guy" will get you charged.

Anonymous Scintan August 27, 2013 1:38 PM  

... but this is an issue that must be covered immediately. In the United States deadly force is justified only to stop a threat and once it is stopped the deadly force must cease immediately. "Shooting to kill" is a crime. People who give entertaining "advice" such as "Lay a man open from crotch to chest" and "He was still alive" poorly serve a novice who is asking for advice on how to deal with a street/legal/police/courts event.

I say this with no malice, but please shut the fuck up on this topic. Your idiotic, and wildly erroneous, posts could get some casual reader to this thread killed if they took your advice.

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 1:44 PM  

"I say this with no malice, but please shut the fuck up on this topic. Your idiotic, and wildly erroneous, posts could get some casual reader to this thread killed if they took your advice."

+1

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 1:45 PM  

Also civil, I notice you ignored my point about multiple attackers.

Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 1:48 PM  

"I advise you to consult a lawyer." - civilServant August 27, 2013 1:33 PM

I don't give a damn what you advise. You have opined that "Shooting to kill is a crime" in a deadly force situation. RedJack and Scintan already covered it but this is just fucking stupid. Generally I don't care what a dumbass troll has to say but running your mouth like this might cause someone to hesitate and the consequences could be catastrophic.

If you are in a deadly force situation you remove the threat. The surest way to do that is to shoot to kill.


Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 27, 2013 1:51 PM  

For daily carry: The largest pistol in the largest caliber you can comfortably conceal. If you can put 300-500 rounds during a shooting session and stay reasonably accurate all day, that's what you need to shoot. For some it's the 9mm, others .40, others .45. If you want a an expensive hobby and want to treat your gun like you treat your Harley, get a 1911. She's like a high maintenance woman, treat her right and she'll put out. If you want to treat your gun like you treat your lawn mower, get a Glock. She's like a 2am booty call, she'll put out every time. I have both. Have at least 15 magazines for carry and training.

For home defense: Remington 870 in 20ga. Yes, I said 20ga. It costs $300 and gives you 70% of the firepower of a 12ga with 40% of the recoil, which makes follow-up shots much quicker. Plus, once the scene is cleared, the perp has been drug out to the front yard, and the police are finally called, it presents a great self-defense picture when they see you killed the vibrant with your daughter's quail gun. For this reason, don't get all gear queer and make it a "tactical" shotgun. Juries look more favorably on wooden stocks than they do on pistol-grips and tac-rails.

AR-15 are good for varmints outside, both the 2 and 4-legged. M1-A are even better.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 2:05 PM  

"I advise you to consult a lawyer."

That's because.. as is your way... you haven't actually put much thought into the matter.

Consider where Mr Zimmerman would be today if Trayvon Martin had been alive to tell his side of things.

When you understand how that goes... then you'll see why its better when the cops only hear one side.

Blogger James Dixon August 27, 2013 2:10 PM  

> In the United States deadly force is justified only to stop a threat and once it is stopped the deadly force must cease immediately.

And whose judgement must you rely on to determine whether the threat is stopped or not?

> I advise you to consult a lawyer.

I'm sure everyone has one on speed dial for just such situations.

Blogger James Dixon August 27, 2013 2:14 PM  

> If you are in a deadly force situation you remove the threat. The surest way to do that is to shoot to kill.

Exactly. If seeing the gun isn't enough to stop them, then you're going to have to shoot, and you only shoot to kill.

Never carry a gun you're not ready to use. Never draw a gun you're not ready to fire. And never fire except to kill.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 27, 2013 2:17 PM  

When you understand how that goes... then you'll see why its better when the cops only hear one side.

+1

You shoot to stop the threat of serious bodily injury and/or death of yourself or others. The best way is for your assailant to be bereft of life. Obviously, CivilServant has no idea what it's like to perform an action that requires skill and precision in a high-stress environment when your ass in on the line. 99.5% of shooters don't have the skills to shoot to wound. If you doubt me, go to your local paintball course and try to only shoot arms and legs while someone is shooting back at you. I can remember one time when my mother, who's a crack shot, tried to dust the neighbor's dog with birdshot for digging in her gladiolas. She wounded the poor pup a little too severely, and finished with a .300 Savage, which she should've used in the first place. Shoot to wound only causes more suffering. Quit being a half-assed, and finish the job.

Anonymous frenchy August 27, 2013 2:18 PM  

@ Josh,

"And for guns in general, don't trust your life to a Kel-Tec, Taurus, or Charter Arms.

What about Beretta?"


Friends don't let friends buy Berettas.

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 2:21 PM  


I advise you to consult a lawyer.

I'm sure everyone has one on speed dial for just such situations.


As a matter of fact, I do. One well versed in gun laws to boot. He also handles setting up trusts for NFA items.

BTW, if you are considering getting any NFA items, you might want to hurry as it looks like they are planning to change the regulations due to the "trust loophole" (no sign-off by head LE person, no fingerprints or photos when using a trust).

Anonymous Heh August 27, 2013 2:22 PM  

Talk about low IQ, the problem has been solved courtesy of Zerohedge...just give the vibrants a monkey.

I call that video "chimp defeats chimps".

The victory dance at the end is classic.

Anonymous Sigyn August 27, 2013 2:27 PM  

"Shooting to kill" is a crime.

In which jurisdictions is it illegal to use deadly force in self-defense?

Or is this Hollywood law, where you can be "common-law married" in New Jersey just by living together for a few years or a conviction is overturned because someone signed the arrest warrant in the wrong place?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 2:33 PM  

Dead Men Tell No Tales.

A friend of my aunt was attacked on her bed by a rapist waiting for her in the closet. She fired once into the attacker's abdomen with her 5 shot .38 revolver. This merely paralyzed him from the waist down, leaving him the opening to wheel himself into the courtroom in a wheelchair, paralyzed and pitiful.

Anyone care to finish the story?

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 27, 2013 2:34 PM  

I advise you to consult a lawyer.
Keep a business card of your attorney in your wallet, or at lest his number on your cell. Get a good defense attorney who's mean a ruthless as a mofo, not they guy you played little league with that did the trust for your aunt Louise.

If something happens, STFU until your attorney gets there. If you give a statement, keep it brief, i.e. "He had a [insert weapon], so I shot him. He broke in to my house, so I shot him. There were three guys hitting me, so I shot him." Use facts, not conclusions. Phrases "I was in fear for my life" or "I thought he was going to kill me" can be torn apart by a good prosecutor, but "He hit me repeatedly with the crowbar" or "He told me he was going to kill me" is much better.

Anonymous Dr. Kenneth Noisewater August 27, 2013 2:37 PM  

"Shooting to kill" is a crime.

That's why you say you were "shooting to stop".

"I feared for my life, so I kept shooting until he stopped threatening me."

Of course, you only say this in a deposition or on the stand, after you've arranged legal representation.

I actually do have a legal service membership dedicated to concealed carriers which gives you a hotline to use in the event of a self-defense incident, that gets you directly to a lawyer.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 2:42 PM  

I actually do have a legal service membership dedicated to concealed carriers which gives you a hotline to use in the event of a self-defense incident, that gets you directly to a lawyer.

Is this a joint venture with Dr Van Nostrum of Vandelay Industries?

Anonymous Venger August 27, 2013 2:45 PM  

I inherited a SIG Sauer P230 in .380 ACP.

Worth carrying?

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 2:46 PM  

I inherited a SIG Sauer P230 in .380 ACP.

Worth carrying?


Do you live in a area suffering from high levels of midget and/or four year old crime?

OpenID rufusdog August 27, 2013 2:48 PM  

I’m not really sure you guys want yourselves on record saying “shoot to kill”.

It happens to be that the best way to stop an attacker also happens to be the best way to kill an attacker.

So…shoot to stop, center mass till they stop attacking, that’s all you have to do.

Not sure I have seen it suggested yet but IDPA is loads of fun. You get to test yourself against others to see how “good” you really are. Plus it gets you doing all kinds of things most people can’t/won’t do at the range. Draw, shoot on the move, shoot from all kinds of positions, engage multiple targets, shoot from cover, etc. etc.

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 2:53 PM  

One of the more thorough studies I've seen regarding stopping power and calibers.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

Anonymous toothy August 27, 2013 2:59 PM  

"So…shoot to stop, center mass till they stop attacking..."

Don't stop shooting until the target changes shape or catches on fire.

OpenID rufusdog August 27, 2013 3:00 PM  

Worth carrying?

Yes, “have a gun” is the number one rule, as long as it is reliable. That said I would sell it and buy a Glock (or something similar) shoot it every week for a year, get some formal training, shoot IDPA every month, train, practice, and practice some more. AFTER you’ve done all that you have enough information that you can make an informed decision. Guys get caught up in the gun or the caliber. It is really all about you, much, much more so than any specific gun or caliber.

Three MUSTs for a carry gun.

1. You must have it with you
2. It must be reliable
3. You must be able to manipulate the controls

Don’t get lost in the internet macho man bullshit.

Anonymous Pinakeli August 27, 2013 3:00 PM  

civilServant August 27, 2013 1:33 PM

If you are in a situation that you have to use deadly force on someone you damned well better aim to kill.

I advise you to consult a lawyer.


I have. His advice: "Dead attackers don't sue."

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 27, 2013 3:01 PM  

I inherited a SIG Sauer P230 in .380 ACP.

Worth carrying?


I had a 232, which is similar. It proved very useful when I shoved it in a homeless guy's face when he walked up on me while I was getting my firstborn out of his carseat several years ago.

The only advantage that gun has is 1. It is a Sig, so it's good quality 2. the fixed barrel makes it very accurate.

It's a small, lightweight gun, but has as much recoil as most single-stack 9mm. I sold mine and bought a 20 ga for my daughter (wink-wink), some cigars, and a bottle of Woodford Reserve.

Good trade.

Anonymous Pinakeli August 27, 2013 3:02 PM  

allyn71 August 27, 2013 1:11 PM
you are better served to remember the axiom "It is better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6".


That is a horrible axiom. A good one would be:
"It is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 3:04 PM  

"Don’t get lost in the internet macho man bullshit. "

And don't let the pussies convince you that your 22LR is enough gun.

It isn't.

Carrying is about discipline. I have no sympathy for you people that claim you have to have tiny little pistol in your pocket or you can't carry at all.

I carried a full-sized duty pistol for 4 years concealed every single day and I never had a problem with it.

Suck it up.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 3:05 PM  

allyn71 August 27, 2013 1:11 PM
you are better served to remember the axiom "It is better to be tried by 12 then carried by 6".

That is a horrible axiom. A good one would be:
"It is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"


Hey dad, my eyes ain't too good, but I think we got ourselves a regular Bill Shakespeare!

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 3:06 PM  

I tell ya... i would love to hear why my wife can carry a glock .45 but a grown ass man can't.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 3:10 PM  

I conceal a 1911 very easily. 5'11", 210 lbs. If I can do it, you can too.

Anonymous Pinakeli August 27, 2013 3:10 PM  

Sorry, allyn71, I had just seen a facebook posting that said:
"It is better to be pissed off then pissed on."

My first thought then was eeewwww! I guess they wanted to put out the fire!

Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 3:11 PM  

@ Pinakeli

Thanks for being the grammar nazi.

I don't care how you spell it as long as you remember it.

OpenID newrebeluniv August 27, 2013 3:15 PM  

Dr Who been putting on weight?

--Hale

Anonymous Pinakeli August 27, 2013 3:19 PM  

The spelling is not the issue. You axiom as stated implies that you get the death penalty for self defense.

But the worst part is that I see newspaper editors who use the wrong word in this case. And book editors. I have even replaced books I read years ago that have had than changed to then incorrectly in the reprints.

It is frustrating that our school systems are so poor that people will argue that using the wrong word is OK, even when it completely changes the meaning of what they are saying.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 3:23 PM  

Pinakeli,

Calmate! We are just screwing with you.

Anonymous allyn71 August 27, 2013 3:30 PM  

Pinakeli

I KAN TYPING

It is a freaking typo, I do know the difference between then and than. I saw the mistake after I posted it but am unable to edit my comments from how I log them. I don't think anyone was confused regarding the point of the statement. This isn't a term paper, it is just dumb internet comment section and I made a typing mistake.

That said, thanks for pointing it out. I appreciate your dillegence in this areana and will do my utmost best to advance the discourse via the utilization of proper grammar. Please forgive my transgressions as I attempt to get my knuckles off the keyboard so to speak.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 27, 2013 3:30 PM  

5'8", 165lbs, and I conceal either a full-sized Glock or a 1911 in an AIWB holster wearing an untucked polo. If I need to tuck my shirt in, I'll put the baby Glock in an ankle holster, or just wear a lightweight golf vest and carry the full-size strong-side hip.

Pocket pistols are for vegetarians.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 3:37 PM  

Dr Who been putting on weight?

--Hale


Glock 36. its a slim little thing.

Anonymous Athor Pel August 27, 2013 3:46 PM  

"Venger August 27, 2013 11:03 AM
...
Any specific suggestions on small folding knives (brand names, etc.)?
..."



Brand doesn't matter. Materials, fit and finish and overall design utility are most important and all those things can be found in a great many brands. With design utility trumping all other considerations. Any modern steel is going to be strong enough to be serviceable. Then, fit and finish as long as they serve utility and function don't really matter unless your sense of aesthetics is ridiculously touchy. What I mean is, homemade knives are usually the best knife you can carry because you're custom making it for one person, you. As long as it does the job and does it well it doesn't matter whether it's ugly.

Also, a carry knife doesn't have to be a folder. There are very many small fixed blade knives that can be carried in any number of convenient and concealable ways. You do not need the blade to be terribly long to be effective. Major arteries and veins are exposed close to the skin surface at several points on the human body.

With that said, a folding knife should have the following:
It can be opened with one hand; there are many ways to accomplish this, I won't go into them here. Too large a subject.

You'll want a clip on it so you can wear it in a pocket or at your belt line. A belt pouch might fit your needs as well. Up to you.

Since you're going to possibly be thrusting the blade into a somewhat dense object you will also want the knife's locking mechanism to be very robust. You do not want it folding closed while wielding it.

Locking mechanisms: there are a great many of them, some very good, some mediocre, some terrible. Regardless of particular locking mechanism, you want a large enough piece of steel blocking/locking the blade so that maximum human strength cannot bend or break the lock. You want the blade to fail before the lock.

To give a specific example, if it's a liner lock or frame lock you want the blocking piece to be as thick or thicker than the blade with 50% or more of the width of the blocking piece engaging the blade with no way for either piece to move out of the way. This rules out the majority of liner locks.

Next thing for locking mechanisms, disengagement levers or buttons. You do not want to inadvertently disengage the lock while using the knife. The lock might as well not be there in that case. You want any levers or buttons to not be touched while wielding the blade.

Anonymous Pinakeli August 27, 2013 4:14 PM  

Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 3:23 PM

Pinakeli,

Calmate! We are just screwing with you.


And I, you. But it did hurt my eyes!

Allyn71, just giving you a hard time. And trying to educate the less literate at the same time. The problem with satire and sarcasm is that you can't tell tone in writing like you can in voice.

I work in radio part time. The quips often do not look the same when written down.

And you are right about the lack of editing. If I had more spare time (or any at all, actually) I would look into writing a better comment system.

Anonymous Salt August 27, 2013 4:17 PM  

I inherited a SIG Sauer P230 in .380 ACP.

Worth carrying?


Loaded with COR-BON 90gr JHP, yes. For most instances, remember why you carry.

Blogger mina smith August 27, 2013 4:24 PM  

I had planned to carry my Sig Sauer P230 handgun (which I inherited as well) as a CCW until I got proficient with my new Springfield Armory XD 9mm.

The latter holds 19 rounds plus one in the chamber. I love the feel of it and it shoots better than the smaller caliber Sig.

My only problem will be concealing it; I liked the Sig because it is easy to hide and I am a very small person. But I'd rather carry the 9mm.

I'll have time to figure it all out, Illinois won't have conceal carry figured out until at least April next year.

Anonymous =) August 27, 2013 4:25 PM  

I appreciate your dillegence in this areana

Diligence
Arena

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 4:27 PM  

And I, you. But it did hurt my eyes!

I see you have never seen Matt Foley, motivational speaker.

Blogger thimscool August 27, 2013 4:32 PM  

Pocket pistols are for vegetarians.

Har!

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 4:49 PM  

"My only problem will be concealing it; I liked the Sig because it is easy to hide and I am a very small person. But I'd rather carry the 9mm."

Stick in in a shoulder rig. No one will ever know its there. Its the benefit of having boobs.


Just don't keep it in your purse.


The purse is the first the badguy takes from you.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 4:50 PM  

Nate's got a point. Boobs are good.

Anonymous bloody barbarian August 27, 2013 4:55 PM  

Nate on Dr Who's Gun -- Glock 36. its a slim little thing.

My wife totes one o' those, as well. She fell in love with it after they let her shoot one of the prototypes when she visited the Glock facility in Smyrna years ago. First shot, bullseye. She asked the PR guy "How soon are these going into production, and how can I get on the list for one?" It fits her small hands very nicely, and hey -- 45 ACP for the win.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 4:58 PM  

45 ACP for the win

.45 ACP always wins.

Anonymous civilServant August 27, 2013 4:59 PM  

If you pull a gun, and use it, it had better be in a situation where your life was in danger and needed to stop the action of the other guy right now.

Correct.

In other words, you felt the only choice was to shoot to kill.

Incorrect.

I advise you to consult a lawyer.

I don't give a damn what you advise.


As you wish. And may you never wish you had.

That's because.. as is your way... you haven't actually put much thought into the matter.

If one disregards the legal aspect then one will have very much time to put thought into the matter after the fact.

... its better when the cops only hear one side.

And it is ideas like this that can get one into very serious trouble. Quoted at trial they demonstrate intent and pre-meditation.

I'm sure everyone has one on speed dial for just such situations.

You may wish to consult one on this matter at least once beforehand. In fact given what I have read here today I suggest it for all of you. Twice for some.

Also civil, I notice you ignored my point about multiple attackers.

No. It simply is difficult to address multiple replies. Perhaps I should obtain a semi-automatic with more than five replies yes?

Dealing with multiple attackers who continue to attack after a firearm is deployed is a specialty situation. The perfect security solution is never to step outside of an armored vehicle but we must accept less than optimal solutions. A simple revolver is portable and adequate for almost all situations. The FBI long ago determined that in the average situation where one or more firearms were discharged the average total number of shots fired by all parties was 2.7.

Your ... posts could get some casual reader to this thread killed if they took your advice.

I have thought the same of some of the more casually entertaining advice given here today.

Venger. Ask your local gunshops and police for advice appropriate to your area. Very likely they will guide you accurately.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 5:05 PM  

"
If one disregards the legal aspect then one will have very much time to put thought into the matter after the fact."

No one has disregarded any legal aspect CS.

"And it is ideas like this that can get one into very serious trouble. Quoted at trial they demonstrate intent and pre-meditation."

Says the expert that has never actually spent a second in legal discussions with actual attorneys on the matter.

Conceal Carry Class instructors will say the same thing. Lawyers say the same thing.

It is a statement of fact. And the notion that someone could site it as "pre-meditation" is just further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 5:06 PM  

You shoot until the threat stops being a threat. You shoot until your attacker stops attacking you. You shoot until he stops coming at you.

How many times did you shoot?

I shot until he stopped attacking me.

And yes... you and everyone else... is better off if he is dead.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 5:09 PM  

Took Dr Who to the range and her Dad had one. She put a couple mags through it and consistently rang the 50 yard gong. and the 25 yard gong she was double tapping.

Good enough.

Blogger Nate August 27, 2013 5:18 PM  

Took Dr Who to the range and her Dad had one. She put a couple mags through it and consistently rang the 50 yard gong. and the 25 yard gong she was double tapping.

Good enough.

Anonymous Huckleberry - est. 1977 August 27, 2013 5:25 PM  

I have thought the same of some of the more casually entertaining advice given here today

Right.
Because Bear Spray.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 5:27 PM  

I use Bear Spray to ease my jock itch and as a dessert topping.

Blogger JohnG August 27, 2013 5:42 PM  

KSG 12gu. I think Gun Tests didn't like them (pretty good magazine for gun enthusiasts, they don't take advertising bucks from gun makers, so they're a good resource for reliability and accuracy to some extent). I like my Remington 11-87, just got a +3 tube extension for it. Not 15 rounds, but I would guess if I needed a whole lot, I could just pick up the AK.

Bear country - 357 mag or 10mm I would think (Anybody played with a Gen 4 Glock 20? traded mine for a Kimber in 10mm - but do like the idea of 15-17 rounds of 10mm). .44 with top loads is good, but would be hard to unload fast accurately.

I had a Sig 230 for years, nice size for carrying. I think 38 special (non +p) is nearly identical to 380s. But it's generally a shot placement thing anyway (not real effective shooting somebody in the foot). They're not very powerful, and for the size, may as well go to a small 9mm or a small .45 like Kahr makes.

I carry a knife when not carrying my Kahr. A new trendy thing lately is a sap made out of a 1" steel bearing in a 'monkey paw' made of parachute cord...selling em as key fobs here and there, but you can get them online.

Anonymous Stg58/Animal Mother August 27, 2013 5:46 PM  

An FN-FAL or any other .308 rifle with a twenty round magazine will make short work of bears.

Anonymous Van August 27, 2013 5:48 PM  

Holy shit, this is still going on? I started to comment about two hours ago, but figured this particular dead horse had been beaten enough.

CivServ - each state has laws designating when a person may use deadly force without fear of prosecution. Deadly force; aka force that is intended, or can reasonably be expected, to kill. In my state, and maqny others, I am legally justified in using deadly force if I have a reasonable fear of deathor serious bodily injury, am protecting another from death or serious bodily injury, or am preventing a forcible felony. And that's outside my home; inside is slightly more lenient.

What you are saying is just wrong. Please go read an actual law; better yet, post the law you are referring to.

Anonymous Sigyn August 27, 2013 5:50 PM  

"... its better when the cops only hear one side."

And it is ideas like this that can get one into very serious trouble. Quoted at trial they demonstrate intent and pre-meditation.


I'm not sure you understand what "intent" and "pre-meditation" mean.

But again, I ask you: Which jurisdictions are you talking about, where it's illegal to use deadly force in self-defense?

Anonymous Jack Amok August 27, 2013 6:09 PM  

Where is Rem. 870 tactical 12 gauge with slugs on that list?

We were talking about backpacking, 50 to 70 mile through-hikes. An 870 is close to 8 lbs, a 1911 is a third the weight. Hard to shoot straight when you're having a heart attack from hauling all that weight.

Anonymous Concerned Rabbit Hunter August 27, 2013 6:30 PM  

"But again, I ask you: Which jurisdictions are you talking about, where it's illegal to use deadly force in self-defense?"

I think it is illegal in the UK.

Anonymous Sigyn August 27, 2013 6:41 PM  

I think it is illegal in the UK.

Is civilServant from overseas?

Anonymous DonReynolds August 27, 2013 6:54 PM  

Whether it is illegal to use deadly force in self defense or not, just remember my family motto......

It is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 8.

Are you willing to use deadly force to save your own life or will you be killed by someone else, using a similar deadly force?

Anonymous geoff August 27, 2013 7:03 PM  

@venger,

clip knife, practice opening quickly and hold sharp blade facing up in case enemy tries to grab it

learn where arteries are

dont show knife until necessary . surprise worth 45 bonus points in a fight

Blogger mina smith August 27, 2013 7:05 PM  

I carry a couple of hunting knives (folding ones) and always have for many years (20+.)

I only took one of them out once when I was walking at college through the woods at night ... dumb, but like many dumb kids I was in a hurry. I heard something behind me, took out the knife, laid in open on top of my books and started marching like I meant business. That must have communicated something because whatever started following me went another direction shortly thereafter.

I definitely do not want someone getting close enough to me that I have to use my knife. That's why I am training with the guns. We are attending some tactical classes next month at an outdoor range near us - moving and shooting which I haven't done yet.

Anonymous DonReynolds August 27, 2013 7:25 PM  

DrTorch......

http://news.yahoo.com/transgender-woman-dies-beating-front-nypd-precinct-201642369.html

"Islan Nettles was out in New York City with friends when a group of young men approached her, learned she was a transgender woman and began taunting and maliciously beating her—right in front of a police precinct in Harlem.

The fashion design student with delicate features was punched in the face, knocked to the ground and beaten until she lost consciousness on the night of August 16."

Darn it, they are always so vague about this crap. If SHE was a transgender woman, then SHE appeared to be a man without a penis? Since SHE was transgender woman, then SHE appeared to be a woman, but that was only HER opinion, since she had a penis? Good grief, this is pure baloney. Halloween is the last night of October. Pretend to be anyone you like then.

Anonymous FP August 27, 2013 7:36 PM  

"A simple revolver is portable and adequate for almost all situations. The FBI long ago determined that in the average situation where one or more firearms were discharged the average total number of shots fired by all parties was 2.7."

The FBI didn't exactly hold that view on revolvers after the Miami shootout. A case where their own arrogance is what caused them to get shot up.


For the mossberg fans, new ati side saddle setup for extra rounds:
http://www.atigunstocks.com/120-mossberg-side-saddle-add-a-shell

The KSG looks interesting but I can't justify it given the price and Keltec's reputation. Still debating getting an su-16 and a su-22 though.

Anonymous Bette Midler August 27, 2013 7:51 PM  

Don: Halloween is the last night of October. Pretend to be anyone you like then.

For all you straight dudes out there, you are not a heterosexual male, you are really a "pre-conversion bull dyke lesbian transsexual".

You look like a guy. You dress like a guy. You like women. You have a penis and you know how to use it.

You go from being a -1 on the diversity scale to a +2 or +3.

One count for being a transsexual.

One count for being a lesbian.

And maybe one more count for being a bull dyke.

All because you tell folks you really are a woman ... deep down inside.

Anonymous Sir_Chancealot August 27, 2013 8:50 PM  

Everyone is offering opinions on the "shoot to kill". I thought I'd let people look at the law in Indiana.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar41/ch3.html

Here is a relevant portion. This is from IC 35-41-3 (IC=Indiana Code)

" (c) A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.
(d) A person:
(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against any other person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.
(e) With respect to property other than a dwelling, curtilage, or an occupied motor vehicle, a person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to immediately prevent or terminate the other person's trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully "

Check your own jurisdiction for what the law actually says. Most states have their laws online.

Anonymous Lana August 27, 2013 9:06 PM  

Salt, thanks for the recommendation on the .380 ammo. I bought a Taurus PT738 for a carry gun and that helps because it just seems way too small to be the least bit effective. Perhaps better ammo would improve the odds.

Mina, second your endorsement of the Springfield XD 9. I am actually thinking of using it for my carry gun. It is so easy to shoot, small and accurate to boot. Shot the 45 instead of the 9 when trying it out and almost got the 45 instead as the recoil is so light. I recommend it to everyone.

Anonymous daddynichol August 27, 2013 9:18 PM  

As for the stupid bear spray comment, I have some real world experience.

I used to work for a company that packaged bear repellent in pressure containers of various sizes. It's not a simple task to pull a canister, yank the safety pin clear, grip the can/trigger correctly, aim and fire. While the mist and fog is effective, it can just as easily incapacitate the shooter as well as the target for one simple reason. Wind. Get one whiff of it and you'll swear your eyes are on fire and you can't breath.

And for all that is good and holy, don't get the residue on your fingers then go take a leak. You'll dance for a month.

Back to my point. Unless you have a can at the ready, pin pulled, a firm grip on the trigger and are upwind, then maybe you have a chance. I doubt it.

Anonymous daddynichol August 27, 2013 9:19 PM  

Sorry for the poor grammar in the previous post, but I hope you all got the point.

Anonymous ThirdMonkey August 27, 2013 10:02 PM  

If you're going to go through the trouble of carrying pepper spray, just use a gun. The few times I used it, whether it was for dogs or vibrants when I was a bouncer, I got it on me. Try fighting when you can't breathe or see. Grabbing the first thing you can get your hands on and using it as a weapon is more effective. Even with bears, a high-lumen flashlight is more effective than that stuff.

Anonymous Gunnutmegger August 27, 2013 10:45 PM  

Nate,

While your internet muscles impress me greatly, I must point out the gaps in your knowledge.

Taurus is starting to become better, but they are still a second-tier brand. Gun Tests magazine tested 83 of their guns between 1996 and 2010; 16 guns broke during testing and an additional 16 were unreliable.

I tabulated the results here, in case you wish to rub your own nose in the facts:

http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/2010/12/28/quality-1911-glock-taurus/

So when you claim that "Taurus makes some of the finest firearms money can buy period", exactly what are your criteria for making that judgment (because reliability can't possibly be on the list)?

And what are your credentials, that you can make such sweeping yet demonstrably wrong claims?

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