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Tuesday, December 17, 2013

The tolerance charade

As expected, the non-Christian groups who begged and pleaded for tolerance show none the moment they feel they are in power:
A girl guide group faces being thrown out of the national association after refusing to force members to drop God from the oath.... The Guiding Promise was altered earlier this year so that members now swear ‘to be true to myself and develop my beliefs’ rather than the original ‘to love my God’.
This is why it is always a massive mistake for Christians to give into the demands for tolerance from non-believers and other faiths in the first place. They inevitably refuse to grant the very same tolerance they demanded. If you don't keep out the infiltrators, they will eventually take over your organization and pervert it. Tolerance is not a virtue, it is nothing more than weakness and self-inflicted vulnerability.

The secularists have made it abundantly clear that there is no room for Christianity in their godless society.
After 24 years of litigation, a federal court revealed in an emotional hearing that it has ordered the famous Mount Soledad Cross removed from a veterans memorial, holding it is a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Since 1913, a cross has stood as the centerpiece of the Mt. Soledad Veterans Memorial in San Diego, surrounded by nearly 3,000 granite plaques, individually honoring war heroes from every American war, from the Revolutionary War to Iraq and Afghanistan.
So be it. It is time for Christians to again begin constructing Christian civilization without the godless and the pagans as their society collapses into moral degradation and economic stagnation. We did it before. We can do it again.

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137 Comments:

Anonymous scoobius dubious December 17, 2013 6:19 AM  

"If you don't keep out the infiltrators, they will eventually take over your organization and pervert it"

Jim Donald over at "jim's blog" has some interesting stuff on the topic of what he calls "entryism" and its discontents. As it were. (If you don't get my reference, then why am I even blogging?)

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 6:20 AM  

The secularists have made it abundantly clear that there is no room for Christianity in their godless society.

I recall that 'ceremonial deism' and the like are A-OK constitutionally in the US. Maybe what Christians should do is push mere theism and deism as far as it will go in the government.

Anonymous Remo December 17, 2013 6:24 AM  

If the U.S. Constitution is against GOD then whose side is it on? The total list contains two choices... And if that is true then it is time for the U.S. Constitution to be scrapped and burned and sent back to its dark master.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza December 17, 2013 6:27 AM  

"And if that is true then it is time for the U.S. Constitution to be scrapped and burned and sent back to its dark master. "

Before one makes a ceremony of it, just withdraw your consent, sleep on it and see how the next morning feels.

Hopefully the wicked will have their hearts overhauled.

Anonymous Mark December 17, 2013 6:34 AM  

"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." G. K. Chesterton

Anonymous Smokey December 17, 2013 6:39 AM  

‘to be true to myself and develop my beliefs’

Wonderful. As if the world did not already have enough self-absorbed narcissists.

Tolerance is not a virtue, it is a luxury only afforded to those who can trust their neighbors to do the same.

Anonymous Jack Amok December 17, 2013 6:54 AM  

I've taken many hikes and bike rides up Mount Soledad.

Fuck the bastards who want that cross taken down.

As far as the lousy lawyers go, I like what my pot-addled, hippie-infested home county Humboldt County has going on:

http://imgur.com/z2dCqeR

That image is all over Facebook for people in the county. People aren't just taking it quite so much any more.

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 6:59 AM  

let them put their cross on private property and we don't have a problem anymore

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 7:02 AM  

"If the U.S. Constitution is against GOD then whose side is it on? The total list contains two choices... And if that is true then it is time for the U.S. Constitution to be scrapped and burned and sent back to its dark master. "


the constitution isent against God...it is against the taking of the immense power afforded to the government to be used to coerce citizens into forcible Christianity the way past kings and emperors have done in Europe over the centuries

Anonymous VD December 17, 2013 7:03 AM  

let them put their cross on private property and we don't have a problem anymore

Kick all the atheists out and we don't have a problem anymore. It's a joke to claim that the Constitution bars what the authors of the Constitution clearly permitted for decades.

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 7:05 AM  

the constitution isent against God...it is against the taking of the immense power afforded to the government to be used to coerce citizens into forcible Christianity the way past kings and emperors have done in Europe over the centuries

It's not, however, against mere deism.

We can't coerce anyone to be Christian. We can, however, require assent to God's existence in many contexts. We can require Congress to open and close with a prayer.

A mere theism still excludes atheists, but it includes every theist out there. Good enough for me.

Anonymous Maximo Macaroni December 17, 2013 7:06 AM  

The weakness of the "secular" society is that it always leaves room for irrationality, however rational and scientific it prides itself on being. For it also prides itself on being tolerant of "sincere belief", except in Christianity. It leaves room, however, for Truth to make itself known on the wings of Faith. I think of Augustine's analysis of the fall of Rome to the barbarians in 410 AD. The present-day Satanists are as weak as the Romans were. But who will be our Barbarians?

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 7:07 AM  

"Kick all the atheists out and we don't have a problem anymore. It's a joke to claim that the Constitution bars what the authors of the Constitution clearly permitted for decades."

the government of the US is required by constitutional mandate to not take any side in religious matters and in this case that means using public funds to set up specific Christian religious memorials on public land. And Atheist citizen of the US enjoy the protection of the constitution from "being kicked out" same as everyone else.

Anonymous DT December 17, 2013 7:09 AM  

If the U.S. Constitution is against GOD then whose side is it on?

It's not against God. The progressives and pagans who "interpret" it today are against God. And I am using a very loose definition of "interpret."

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 7:09 AM  

"It's not, however, against mere deism.

We can't coerce anyone to be Christian. We can, however, require assent to God's existence in many contexts. We can require Congress to open and close with a prayer.

A mere theism still excludes atheists, but it includes every theist out there. Good enough for me."

It is against a state religion but does not oppose the private practice of it.

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 7:10 AM  

And Atheist citizen of the US enjoy the protection of the constitution from "being kicked out" same as everyone else.

Not really, hence the ceremonial deism, congress opening with prayer, etc. The government isn't supposed to take sides in debates against theists. Atheists are another story.

So if we have to choose between removing any and all religious references so as not to upset a group that is a fractional minority even among the irreligious, or offending that fractional minority, the choice is clear.

Get out.

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 7:11 AM  

"It's not against God. The progressives and pagans who "interpret" it today are against God. And I am using a very loose definition of "interpret."

Its actually not humanly possible to be against God...its like saying your are against the passage of time or the existence of matter

Anonymous VD December 17, 2013 7:11 AM  

You seculars have made a terrible, terrible miscalculation. You thought that you could exploit Christian tolerance and then use it to clamp down on Christianity. But once you succeed in completely eviscerating the Constitution, then we will stop paying attention to its limits.

And then it is become a simple question of numbers and will. And Christians have both, we just seldom exhibit the latter until pressed. So, you are in the process of creating the very crusades that you fear. If forced to choose between their political ideals and their faith, Christians will choose the latter every single time.

You were dumb enough to force the choice. And now, it appears secular society is doomed because of you.

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 7:12 AM  

It is against a state religion but does not oppose the private practice of it.

It's not against a congressional prayer, or mottos that include reference to God, and otherwise.

Vox is correct. If atheists wish to warp the constitution to advance their agenda, they can hardly complain when Christians warp the constitution in turn. And when they do, the reply is going to be clear to atheists: Get out.

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 7:13 AM  

"Not really, hence the ceremonial deism, congress opening with prayer, etc. The government isn't supposed to take sides in debates against theists. Atheists are another story."

I d be curious to find out where support for deism or theism is mentioned in the constitution as part of government duties

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 7:15 AM  

I d be curious to find out where support for deism or theism is mentioned in the constitution as part of government duties

What's the motto on US currency? How does the Pledge of Allegiance go? Does congress open with a prayer or not?

History and evidence is on the theist's side here, not on the atheists. Of course you can imagine how to creatively interpret the Constitution to retroactively justify absurd atheist claims. But theists can do that too, and we'll interpret it in a way that makes it clear what the proper attitude is towards atheists: Get out.

Anonymous VD December 17, 2013 7:15 AM  

the government of the US is required by constitutional mandate to not take any side in religious matters and in this case that means using public funds to set up specific Christian religious memorials on public land. And Atheist citizen of the US enjoy the protection of the constitution from "being kicked out" same as everyone else.

The Constitution is dead. It's just a piece of paper, remember? You can't hide behind the protection of the piece of paper you rendered worthless. You're doomed, Lud VanB. If the Christians don't kick you out, the Muslims will behead you.

Go ahead, put your trust in the Constitution. It's certainly an ironic tactic for an atheist.

Anonymous Amir Larijani December 17, 2013 7:16 AM  

Just call these vuys what they are: the Secular Taliban

OpenID cailcorishev December 17, 2013 7:19 AM  

This is an example of why I say liberals do NOT actually care about freedom or individual rights, no matter what the word means. Those were useful platforms when they were fighting for power, but once they get into power and start feeling their oats, they clamp down on actions they disagree with and individuals who oppose them faster than anyone.

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 7:19 AM  

"You seculars have made a terrible, terrible miscalculation. You thought that you could exploit Christian tolerance and then use it to clamp down on Christianity. But once you succeed in completely eviscerating the Constitution, then we will stop paying attention to its limits."

no one is clamping down on Christianity in the US. The constitution has made it clear from the get go that religion is a private matter and that the government is not to be involved in it. So I reiterate...fund all the crosses you want as long as you put them on your private property

Blogger Lud VanB December 17, 2013 7:21 AM  

"The Constitution is dead. It's just a piece of paper, remember? You can't hide behind the protection of the piece of paper you rendered worthless. You're doomed, Lud VanB. If the Christians don't kick you out, the Muslims will behead you.

Go ahead, put your trust in the Constitution. It's certainly an ironic tactic for an atheist."

well...looks like the apple didn't fall very far from the tree

Anonymous Amir Larijani December 17, 2013 7:22 AM  

Yep. The dogs will have their day. But the American Reconquista is going to suck for the atheists, or what is left of them after they are done killing each other off.

Blogger Harry T. Conan December 17, 2013 7:22 AM  

Crude - promoting theism and deism intuitively sounds like a good idea but it is actually what got us to this point. Freemasonry has been promoting deism for decades, or longer. Rejecting Christ, rejecting doctrines and dogmas that apply directly to Christianity in favour of a thin deistic appeal to a Grand Architect. Influential freemasons have been working in the halls of power in Washington and all over the country to bring down the Christian Faith.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 17, 2013 7:27 AM  

This country--no, the world--deserves to be marched around in the desert for 40 years.

It is my opinion that God has delivered us these leaders in both government and the Church as a punishment for the lukewarm filth that men have become.

In my estimation, it seems that the Almighty is going to just let it all become a terrible wasteland for generations to come. And I'd say people deserve that for taking things for granted.

I'd like the world to be better, but if you turn it to the Jerry Springer show, you'll see where we're headed (or what we've already become).

Anonymous The other skeptic December 17, 2013 7:27 AM  

And yet, some are using the fear of beinguncomfortable to stifle deviance.

Blogger Vox December 17, 2013 7:31 AM  

The constitution has made it clear from the get go that religion is a private matter and that the government is not to be involved in it.

It appears you have an awful lot of crosses to dig up all around the country. Just try to remove them from Arlington Cemetery and see what happens.

Anonymous farmer Tom December 17, 2013 7:31 AM  

More tolerance.

Jumpy Monkey Coffee



Pastor's Letter to the Editor

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 17, 2013 7:32 AM  

Vox, I'd love to think that the Christian Man in this nation will rise up and take action to re-civilize the North American continent.

But truth be told, if that were to happen, we would see these brave souls NOW. But they just aren't there.

People are lazy and cynical here. If a Christian is cornered by atheists in a debate, the other Christians don't say SQUAT.

If something were to happen, it should have happened a while ago. It didn't. I doubt that it will.

We are about to understand HOW the German people passively allowed Nazis to commit genocide.

Blogger tz December 17, 2013 7:36 AM  

Tolerance is a virtue, as it derives from prudence anđ tmperance.

Tolerance is always tolerating EVIL. Simúltaneously identifying the kind and magnitude of evil, and rationally deciding it would be worse - even a worse evil - totry to eliminate it. But tolerance has limits and its place. The dog when housebroken can be in the house, the cows in thé barn, but wild animals need to stay in the wilds.

We should tolerate some insecurity. The alternative is NSA and SWAT. The constitution says we will tolerate crime and guilt rather than a tyrannical government. But as Vox noted, the constitution is dead, yet the tyrant has and promotes crime and guilt.

Anonymous The Great Martini December 17, 2013 7:42 AM  

The irony is that the only land that seems to be available for starting a purely theocratic Christian state is in Africa, Angola for one place, yet the general consensus here is that Africans are not capable of supporting a civil society. Maybe there's a message in there somewhere.

Blogger tz December 17, 2013 7:43 AM  

The constitution also says government shouldn't be involved in 95% of things it currently does. And it is involved in religion when it prohibits the free practice thereof. Like forcing me to pay for contraception.

I can choose not to be involved in religion. Would that I could simiilarly avoid the heavy hand of government. It requires this, bans that, and is worse than Carrie Nation's Women's CHRISTIAN Temperance union. She only had an axe and only vandalized. The neo moralists kill people. You've traded the 10 commandments for the 100,000 pages of the federal register.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2013 December 17, 2013 7:43 AM  

tolerance-now-means-government-coerced-celebration

Vox - I love a concise cogent turn of words/ penetrating phrase. Your link to rightwingnews.com put me onto those words above
"You'll dance at our gay weddings or you'll be the roman candles lighting the garden".

Still three quarters of Christendom are clueless sound asleep. The ethnic cleansing of Christianity is a dim distant murmur. Solzhenitsyn's warning is unbelievable. He wrote of a "senseless process of endless concessions to aggressors".

The madman with trembling hands and an evil glare saying he's going to kill you isn't there for "understanding"/ empathy/ recognition/ equality - he is there to kill you.

The global warming agenda isn't just about ineffective action on a non existent problem. It is "we hate human beings" writ large. People are biological excreta, a stain on pristine Mother Gaia's Earth. A freak bit of nature going unnatural. All enterprise a disharmony.

Tyranny is no longer disguised. Here is a woman suing for the right to live in her own home. Is this what George Washington had in mind?

Here above is Lud saying that all public land belongs to "his team". Just shut the F..... up, do what you have to on your land and let us run all public space in sacred holy untouchable secularism.

The cognitive dissonance of a multicultural feminist is beyond parody. History is rewritten to abolish the real men who made this place.

Many books, very large books could be written about this sentence: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice?

If only he had have been frank. We are obliged to Jesus. Nothing else worked, will work, or even really existed "en mass" in the formation of the nation.

I'm just stating the obvious to apoplexy of the lobotomized. or are you awake?

OpenID simplytimothy December 17, 2013 7:54 AM  

Laramie, speaking for myself, I call bullshit on your defeatism.

The Holy Spirit is alive and well in this country and He is very angry. When I started following His promptings several years ago to get ready for the load of hurt that is coming, I was pleasantly surprised at how many people I ran into who where DOING the same thing.

God being God, of course I find it frustrating that He is doing it His way. If it where me in charge, we would have marched from sea to shining sea and the land would be cleaned. But God insists we follow Him and so be it.

Anonymous YIH December 17, 2013 7:57 AM  

and other faiths in the first place. That's why the term Judeo-Christianity bothers me, it places another faith ahead of Christianity. Would the phrases 'islamo-christianity' or 'shinto-christianity' or 'hindeo-christianity' make any sense? Obviously not.
Especially when that 'other' faith is so obviously hostile to Christianity.
Whenever you see or hear about ''the war on Christmas'' consider the non-christians who are primarily waging it.

Blogger tz December 17, 2013 8:09 AM  

Meanwhile, since the sides have changed, who is the evil empire? Buchanan's latest

Are Christians (and the unborn) better off under Putin or Obama?

Anonymous dh December 17, 2013 8:13 AM  

What's the motto on US currency? How does the Pledge of Allegiance go? Does congress open with a prayer or not?

All of which are in various states of challenge.

In the past, the Courts have held that a mere mention of a religious icon or phrase or entity does not establish a state Religion. Primarily because in the past mentions of God or similar were viewed as a cultural statement, not a religious one. Saying "In God We Trust" does not establish a state religion, anymore than requiring citizen to take an oath does

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 8:22 AM  

dh,

All of which are in various states of challenge.

So? 'Challenge' is cheap. And remember, we're talking here about an attitude whereby what the Constitution actually means is irrelevant as opposed to interpreting it whatever way we damn well please. If atheists want to play that game, theists can as well.

In the past, the Courts have held that a mere mention of a religious icon or phrase or entity does not establish a state Religion. Primarily because in the past mentions of God or similar were viewed as a cultural statement, not a religious one.

Then we can argue that requiring an oath to trust in God is a cultural rather than a religious oath. And, for that matter, prayers to God are cultural rather than religious prayers.

I'm sure arguments can be advanced as to why this logic doesn't work. But the great thing is, logical consistency doesn't really matter anymore. And if it is, it's easy to reinterpret the Constitution so we're being consistent anyway.

Harry,

Crude - promoting theism and deism intuitively sounds like a good idea but it is actually what got us to this point. Freemasonry has been promoting deism for decades, or longer.

Decades? Since the founding of this country, perhaps.

Give me deists and masons over atheists any day of the week. I can have common ground with a theist, particularly a monotheist, of any stripe - in principle and often in practice. In principle I can have some common ground with an atheist, but in practice this is less and less the case. We have Peter Boghossian as the latest Hero of the Cult of Gnu, calling for treating religious belief as an out and out mind virus that should be placed on the DSM as a mental illness. We have atheists fighting tooth and nail, through any twist of logic they can, to strip any and all religious or theistic sentiment stripped out of public life to whatever extent they can.

Yes, I'd take freemasons and deists before that. Hell, I'd take muslims before that.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 8:36 AM  

Give me deists and masons over atheists any day of the week. I can have common ground with a theist, particularly a monotheist, of any stripe - in principle and often in practice.

You miss that the deists lead to the atheists taking over.

Blogger napari December 17, 2013 8:38 AM  

Im just coming off a heated debate over conservative non-profit groups getting stonewalled and denied their right to function and operate, as laid out in the laws of the land. The atheist folks I debated with had no problem turning a blind eye to government thugs from the IRS strong arming non-profit conservative groups.
My take away is the atheists folks openly oppose religion and are out to crush religion using all means possible, including subverting and changing the laws of the land. Please note, oppose is a huge step past not believeing in God. The atheist folks I debated with do not believe in any sort of "live and let live".
I would agree 100% that tolerance is an enemy of religion!

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2013 8:39 AM  

> The constitution has made it clear from the get go that religion is a private matter and that the government is not to be involved in it.

The Constitution makes no reference whatsoever to religion being a "private matter." The exact text of the relevant section of the first amendment is:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

It seems to me that having your gravesite adorned with the symbol of your religion would be considered a reasonable way of exercising your religion.

> And Atheist citizen of the US enjoy the protection of the constitution from "being kicked out" same as everyone else.

Of the country? Yes. Of the society of Christians? No.

> ...yet the general consensus here is that Africans are not capable of supporting a civil society.

The consensus is that Africans do not appear to be capable of supporting an advanced technological society. Whether they can support a civil one remains an open question.

Anonymous J December 17, 2013 8:46 AM  

"Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions." G. K. Chesterton

This is not true, though. The "tolerant" Left has very strong convictions, most notably that the Right is stupid and evil and should be ruthlessly crushed.

members now swear ‘to be true to myself and develop my beliefs’

Hitler, Stalin, Mao... each was true to himself and developed his beliefs. Yaaay, being true to yourself!

Anonymous J December 17, 2013 8:47 AM  

It appears you have an awful lot of crosses to dig up all around the country. Just try to remove them from Arlington Cemetery and see what happens.

Probably nothing, given the current pussification of the armed forces.

Anonymous DanG December 17, 2013 8:47 AM  

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams. Our constitution is secular at its core but it presupposes that the people will generally adhere to Judeo-Christian beliefs. Many of our current controversies stem from the fact that we are no longer the "moral and religious people" envisioned by Adams and the other framers. If we as a culture reject God, the constitution will not not work.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 8:58 AM  

If an organization is not explicitly pro-Christian, over time it will become explicitly anti-Christian.

Anonymous Godfrey December 17, 2013 8:59 AM  

"We did it before. We can do it again."


We were united before. We're not now.

Anonymous Big Bill December 17, 2013 9:00 AM  

let them put their cross on private property and we don't have a problem anymore

Ahh. So it is a matter of "property rights", then. As I remember, they did "put the cross on private property".

They leased the land around the cross to a private association.

Oops! Not good enough!

Try again!

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 9:04 AM  

We were united before. We're not now.

We were far less united than you'd think

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 9:06 AM  

Josh,

You miss that the deists lead to the atheists taking over.

Since when? We had a heavy representation of out and out deists in the founding of this country and the initial government of it. Why did anything close to a mere increase in atheist influence take literally hundreds of years in light of that?

Anonymous RedJack December 17, 2013 9:08 AM  

The current military will follow orders. That is what they do. The ideal that the military will "save the US" is pretty odd.

But in the long term, the atheists are playing an interesting game. Christians of today won't kill you. Muslim will. Someone will claim the public square.

Anonymous Yes, I am a Christian, but... December 17, 2013 9:08 AM  

… then we will stop paying attention to its limits.
 
Are you still a US citizen?

Also, Laramie makes a good point about any supposed coming American Christian Jihad.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 9:08 AM  

Since when? We had a heavy representation of out and out deists in the founding of this country and the initial government of it. Why did anything close to a mere increase in atheist influence take literally hundreds of years in light of that?

Read up on Moral Therapeutic Deism, which is what a significant number of theists in the United States actually believe and practice. It's a lukewarm, wishy-washy faith. It's not going to take a stand for anything, ever. So over time it will inevitably be eroding by the tide of the atheists.

Anonymous St.Chesterton December 17, 2013 9:10 AM  

The problem isn't/wasn't atheists...

It's Puritans (aka Protestants).

The Puritan mindset was and is hell-bent on separating Western Civilization from Christianity. This is where the trouble began.

Puritans/Fundamentalist are hellbent on separating heaven and earth, which inevitably leaves neither within grasp. The breaking of the cross.

We've seen the results...

If you follow Christ, you need to come to Rome. Or else.

Anonymous Sigyn December 17, 2013 9:11 AM  

Oh, lordy.

Just passin' through, because I have a lot of work to do with moving and all, but here's a question that should be asked whenever someone invokes "government endorsement":

How many reasonable people have felt compelled to become Christians (or any other religion) against their will as a result of the action/thing in question?

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 9:15 AM  

It's Puritans (aka Protestants).

The Puritan mindset was and is hell-bent on separating Western Civilization from Christianity. This is where the trouble began.

Puritans/Fundamentalist are hellbent on separating heaven and earth, which inevitably leaves neither within grasp. The breaking of the cross.

We've seen the results...

If you follow Christ, you need to come to Rome. Or else.


If you actually knew anything about Puritans, you would know that they were actually trying to bring about a heaven on earth.

And which bloc is more political today, American Evangelicals or American Catholics?

As far as western civilization and Christianity, please provide three examples of Puritans trying to separate the two. Be specific.

Blogger Crude December 17, 2013 9:17 AM  

Read up on Moral Therapeutic Deism, which is what a significant number of theists in the United States actually believe and practice. It's a lukewarm, wishy-washy faith. It's not going to take a stand for anything, ever. So over time it will inevitably be eroding by the tide of the atheists.

There's no 'reading up on it' to do - it's just a description of an attitude, and it's not identical to 'deism' whatsoever, anymore than episcopalians are identical to 'Christianity'.

Nor is there anything 'inevitable' when it comes to human action. One of the advantages of 'moral therapeutic deism' is that wishy-washiness tends to give way to whoever's pressing at the time - not simply atheists.

Blogger IM2L844 December 17, 2013 9:18 AM  

I once thought that the liberal strategy of death by a thousand paper cuts would be the demise of misguided reflexive cheek turning Christianity in America.

Lately, however, I've notice a little bit of the nonchalant c'est la vie attitude waning and serious animosity toward overt liberalism waxing. Still, I think it will take a more personally efficacious trigger than the ObamaCare debacle to create a real tipping point. Sooner or later, though, the sleeping giant is going to wake up and when it does it's going to be really pissed off.

We're not there yet.


Anonymous St.Chesterton December 17, 2013 9:34 AM  

Josh:

1) Puritans deny the authority handed to the Bishop of Rome by Christ... ( Matthew 16:18) ...such authority is the underpinning of Western Civilization

2) Democracy... the very system y'all are railing against in this post... a gift from the Fundamentalists.

3) 1517 years of Civilization ... unified under the Banner of Christ, until Luther sank his vile teeth into the throat to feast upon the West's lifeblood

Grow the Eff up. Unite with Rome. Conservationism, Libertarianism and Protestantism is dead. Neoreaction is the future!

Blogger JartStar December 17, 2013 9:38 AM  

I'm curious to know if so many defeatist Christians here talk like this around their own local churches and families.

Anonymous Eric Ashley December 17, 2013 9:40 AM  

First you have to be hardened, toughened up that is, and then a precipitating event has to happen. An Event without the prior hardening produced by rough living might produce much wailing, but little action.

Anonymous Susan December 17, 2013 9:41 AM  

If Luddie two shoes is sneezing cows over a cross, imagine his reaction after going to the belly of the beast in DC, and seeing all the religious symbolism carved in stone on and in all the government buildings.

Blogger Positive Dennis December 17, 2013 9:56 AM  

I was raised near that cross that will be removed. As a Christian I do not use crosses as a religious symbol, but I still think the ruling is stupid

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 9:59 AM  

1) Puritans deny the authority handed to the Bishop of Rome by Christ... ( Matthew 16:18) ...such authority is the underpinning of Western Civilization

2) Democracy... the very system y'all are railing against in this post... a gift from the Fundamentalists.

3) 1517 years of Civilization ... unified under the Banner of Christ, until Luther sank his vile teeth into the throat to feast upon the West's lifeblood


None of those are specific examples of puritans separating western civilization and christianity.

Do you have any?

Anonymous paradox December 17, 2013 10:02 AM  

Crude, a lot of the founders weren't necessarily deist, they are better described as theistic rationalist.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 10:05 AM  

And honestly you don't merit a response, but to these points:

1) Puritans deny the authority handed to the Bishop of Rome by Christ... ( Matthew 16:18) ...such authority is the underpinning of Western Civilization

2) Democracy... the very system y'all are railing against in this post... a gift from the Fundamentalists.

3) 1517 years of Civilization ... unified under the Banner of Christ, until Luther sank his vile teeth into the throat to feast upon the West's lifeblood


1) Did western civilization begin with the bishop of Rome declaring himself the head of the church?

2) How was democracy, an invention of the greeks, a gift from the fundamentalists? And what does either group have to do with the puritans?

3) How had the church been unified for 1517 years when it hadn't even been in existence for 1517 years and had already seen a schism in 1054? Also, was Martin Luther a puritan?

Blogger Nate December 17, 2013 10:09 AM  

"1) Puritans deny the authority handed to the Bishop of Rome by Christ... ( Matthew 16:18) ...such authority is the underpinning of Western Civilization"

No. It wasn't. And you're an idiot.

"2) Democracy... the very system y'all are railing against in this post... a gift from the Fundamentalists."

No. It wasn't. Democracy, and the Republic, were forms of government created by Greeks. Fundamentalists weren't invented yet. And you're an idiot.

"3) 1517 years of Civilization ... unified under the Banner of Christ, until Luther sank his vile teeth into the throat to feast upon the West's lifeblood"

No. There was nothing unified. The Great Schism ring any bills? The reformation is just a splinter off a splinter. And... you're an idiot.

Anonymous Wendy December 17, 2013 10:12 AM  

One could say the erasing of Christianity (and its considerable reflection of our culture and history) from the public sphere is establishment of the secular and therefore not allowed. It favors atheism.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 10:13 AM  

St Chesterton, what Chesterton books have you actually read?

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 10:33 AM  

I'm curious to know if so many defeatist Christians here talk like this around their own local churches and families.

It's a profoundly unbiblical notion. Gates of Hell shall not prevail and all.

Blogger JartStar December 17, 2013 10:43 AM  

It's a profoundly unbiblical notion. Gates of Hell shall not prevail and all.

I think the defeatism is an excuse to avoid responsibility and general laziness.

Anonymous DeFeet December 17, 2013 10:47 AM  

It's a profoundly unbiblical notion. Gates of Hell shall not prevail and all
Not in the short term and with a local view, which is the time frame of Vox’s unevidenced future Christian Revival in the US.   There’s nothing unbiblical about defeatist (realistic) about your own situation and predicting the eventual eradication of Christianity from the US.  It’s a big world after all.   
 

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 10:49 AM  

I think the defeatism is an excuse to avoid responsibility and general laziness.

I concur. Preserving and rebuilding culture is hard work. Much easier to do nothing and whine.

However, American Christians are like the hobbits of the shire, who will eventually find their tookish courage, destroy the ring, and throw out those who have scoured the shire.

Anonymous Luddite December 17, 2013 10:54 AM  

@Josh re: hard work

Get to it, blog boy

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 10:55 AM  

Not in the short term and with a local view, which is the time frame of Vox’s unevidenced future Christian Revival in the US. There’s nothing unbiblical about defeatist (realistic) about your own situation and predicting the eventual eradication of Christianity from the US. It’s a big world after all.

Where did Vox say that?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 December 17, 2013 10:56 AM  

Intolerance is never tolerated.

Anonymous GG December 17, 2013 11:10 AM  

"So be it. It is time for Christians to again begin constructing Christian civilization without the godless and the pagans as their society collapses into moral degradation and economic stagnation...."

VD, statements like this worry me. Like it or not, experiencing persecution and intolerance is an important part of being a Christian. I have to remind myself all the time that Christ faced persecution, rejection, execution......and I'm all upset because somebody managed to get a nativity set removed from the state capital??

"....their society collapses into moral degradation and economic stagnation..."

I suppose everybody's calling is different, but if Christ returned during this time, He would absolutely want to know why I didn't do anything to help them, warn them, teach them, show them another way. It would not be good if I were found to be hiding in a "Christian civilization," avoiding the so called wretched refuse of the world.

Anonymous Alexander December 17, 2013 11:24 AM  

And if there is no Christian civilization standing fast and strong, to where will you lead them, to what will you seek to make them aspire?

Anonymous DonReynolds December 17, 2013 11:29 AM  

What can I say, Vox? When you are right, you are right.
Christians have entered into a political (not religious) compromise based on toleration of non-Christians but for some reason only Christians got the memo. So we have liberal Christians telling the flock that they must disguise the fact that they are also Christians in order to avoid "offending" the non-Christians, even if that means no mention of Jesus in public, or public prayers, or religious signs/billboards. (I emphasize here that the liberal Judas goats are the ones suppressing fellow Christians.)
.
If we have agreed to be nice and disappear, keep our religious views a secret, and definitely do not infect anyone else (like children or other family members), then we may as well build our own civilization (again). BUT MAYBE THIS TIME....Christians will remember what happens when fellow Christians start talking about TOLERATION and ACCEPTANCE of non-Christians. If you want to have a Christian society, I do not see a problem. It is a big world and there is plenty of room for everybody...... including Christians...... but they do not all have to live in the same house.

Anonymous Brother Thomas December 17, 2013 11:35 AM  

@Nate December 17, 2013 10:09 AM "...you're an idiot."


Really now, you're better than that Nate.

Blogger Conan the Cimmerian, King of Aquilonia December 17, 2013 11:35 AM  

On defeatism - See Tolkien's phrase The Long Defeat

Anonymous DonReynolds December 17, 2013 11:37 AM  

GG....."I suppose everybody's calling is different, but if Christ returned during this time, He would absolutely want to know why I didn't do anything to help them, warn them, teach them, show them another way. It would not be good if I were found to be hiding in a "Christian civilization," avoiding the so called wretched refuse of the world."

GG, you just got the Missionary Award! Congratulations!
Now put on your hiking boots and pick out a nice sun hat.
You get to go save the savages. But surely, you can imagine, that other people have a different calling?

Blogger IM2L844 December 17, 2013 11:43 AM  

I suppose everybody's calling is different, but if Christ returned during this time, He would absolutely want to know why I didn't do anything to help them, warn them, teach them, show them another way.

If by "them" you mean the growing Purpose Driven ecumenical universalism movement that is actively trying to drag the church to hell in a hand-basket, I totally agree.

Anonymous Roundtine December 17, 2013 11:54 AM  

I'm curious to know if so many defeatist Christians here talk like this around their own local churches and families.

I'm tired of the pointless fights. I do talk this way, trying to convince people not to waste their efforts. It takes so much effort, especially emotional effort, to put up a fight against the majority. It is far more rewarding and fruitful to work positively by building institutions and communities. One can waste tons of effort at PTA meetings and fighting the local school board trying to improve public schools, when you can take all that effort and pour it into building a homeschool community or a private school. Sometimes in order to advance, you must first retreat:

The generals have a saying:
"Rather than make the first move
It is better to wait and see.
Rather than advance an inch
It is better to retreat a yard."

Men are born soft and supple;
Dead, they are stiff and hard.
Plats are born tender and pliant;
Dead, they are brittle and dry.

Thus whoever is stiff and inflexible
Is a disciple of death.
Whoever is soft and yielding
Is a disciple of life.

The hard and stiff will be broken.
The soft and supple will prevail.

The soft overcomes the hard;
The gentle overcomes the rigid.
Everyone knows this is true,
But few can put it into practice.

Anonymous BillB December 17, 2013 11:56 AM  

One would wonder if that judge could stand upright if that cross were shoved into its proper position.

Anonymous bw December 17, 2013 12:03 PM  

true to myself and develop my beliefs’

The myth and propaganda is that their beliefs are actually their own

Anonymous scoobius dubious December 17, 2013 12:15 PM  

"And Atheist citizen of the US enjoy the protection of the constitution from "being kicked out" same as everyone else."

Well, one of these fucktards finally got SOMETHING right. "Citizens of the US" is an apt description; "fellow Americans" of course does not apply. Therein lies a difference.

Anonymous Brother Thomas December 17, 2013 12:16 PM  

@bw December 17, 2013 12:03 PM "...true to myself and develop my beliefs."

"The myth and propaganda is that their beliefs are actually their own" - bw


BINGO! We have a winner. I vote you get the prize.

OpenID simplytimothy December 17, 2013 12:23 PM  

I wonder how consistent the defeatist/fight divide is with the premillinialist/postmillinialist divide.

Postmillinialist here, hence the promise of the kingdom on earth before Christ's return. I used to share the defeatism when I was a premilenialist, but Doug Wilson's thinking convinced me to relish the fight.



Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 12:40 PM  

I'm an agnostic millennialist.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 12:41 PM  

@Nate December 17, 2013 10:09 AM "...you're an idiot."


Really now, you're better than that Nate.


We shouldn't call idiocy idiocy?

Anonymous Porky December 17, 2013 12:47 PM  

Lud: "let them put their cross on private property and we don't have a problem anymore"

VD: "Kick all the atheists out and we don't have a problem anymore."


Ditch the government and we don't have a problem either.

Anonymous Wendy December 17, 2013 1:16 PM  

I'm an agnostic millennialist.

That certainly is one important ist. Leave it off and the whole meaning is changed.

Blogger Nate December 17, 2013 1:20 PM  

"Really now, you're better than that Nate."

No I'm not. If someone says something idiotic... calling them an idiot is entirely appropriate.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 1:40 PM  

Rebuilding culture: what do y'all think about the Benedict Option ?

Anonymous paradox December 17, 2013 1:48 PM  

Josh,

I'm an agnostic millennialist.



I favor number 4) Amillennialist.

Anonymous TX December 17, 2013 1:53 PM  

those evil puritans....

"…LGBT Catholics who remain in the church now have more reason to hope that change is coming.”

Anonymous BillB December 17, 2013 2:30 PM  

Article I Section 7 proves the US Constitution to be a Christian document. Article III Section 3 links to judaic roots.

The First Amendment has absolutely no bearing on the States. Never did. The Writers of the Bill or Rights specifically stated they could not bind the states to the points of the First Amendment and stated that States could only be bound by their own constitutions. The soopream kort using their very special methods pulled some crap out their arse and invented the idea that the First bound the States through the 14th BUT the 14ht didn't cover any rights, only privileges and immunities. Note voting was not even protected by the 14th so we needed the 15th, 19th, and others.

What everyone needs to grasp is that neither the courts nor the executive nor the Congress can decide what any of the Constitution means. Each of these groups was created by the Constitution and just as you or I cannot determine the power of our Creator, those created by the Constitution cannot legitimately determine its meaning. The meaning was set in stone by the language chosen at the time. If you want it changed then amend the document through proper processes. Do not try to cheat and just interpret things the way you want them. IF We the People would just freaking stand up and dump any and all the azoles in office We might get back on track. We the People can decide if judges are meeting our good be3havior requirements and if We the People decide they are not, We the People, using our superiority to the judges, can remove them from office.

All have been lied to for so long, few recognize the truth.

Anonymous Porky December 17, 2013 2:32 PM  

Rebuilding culture: what do y'all think about the Benedict Option ?

Sorry. I like girls. Good luck, though.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 17, 2013 2:36 PM  

"If you follow Christ, you need to come to Rome. Or else.." go a bit further to the east and join us Orthodox .......

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 2:40 PM  

Sorry. I like girls. Good luck, though

Did you actually read the article?

If you did, you would know that the examples given are church communities with families.

Of course, that wouldn't let you continue with your political wise man act.

Blogger rcocean December 17, 2013 3:10 PM  

The constitution, as VD, states has been a deal letter for longtime. It took until 1948, for the SCOTUS to figure out the "Constitution" included the phrase "Separation of Church and State" and until 1963 to figure out that School prayer represented an establishment of religion.

Unlike Vox, I don't think there is a chance in hell that "Christians" will fight back or change anything. They just want to watch football, make money, and meekly engage - once and a while - in some silent prayer. They will literally go to the Gulag praising the "Constitution" and their beloved "tolerance".

Anonymous Porky December 17, 2013 3:46 PM  

Did you actually read the article?

tl;dr

...church communities with families.

You mean like the Amish, the Quakers, the Shakers, the Luddites, the Bruderhofs, the Hutterites, the Mennonites, the Branch Davidians, etc.

What an original idea.

Of course, that wouldn't let you continue with your political wise man act.

Don't hate me because I'm 3 for 3, Josh.

Anonymous hat head December 17, 2013 3:53 PM  

I believe that one of Satan's most effective weapons against the Christian Church is not so much hardship, suffering, and persecution but rather prosperity and ease.

Anonymous Josh December 17, 2013 4:06 PM  

Shut up, porky.

Blogger Nate December 17, 2013 4:41 PM  

"Don't hate me because I'm 3 for 3, Josh."

You're a moron Porky.

And worse... You're a moron that is hell bent on pushing the limits of moronic behavior beyond all previous conceptions.

Blogger Bogey December 17, 2013 4:52 PM  

We did it before. We can do it again.
A see a little hope here, I like it, now if we can just get Kratman to ease up on the doom and gloom a bit.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2013 December 17, 2013 5:11 PM  

The constitution was written by men standing on bibles. In no way was it to abrogate or detract from the influence, force or effect of the bible in civil society and the public space.
While the framers were appalled by sectarian bickering and violence in no way were they thinking to abolish or deny the Christian basis of their society/ culture.

Unfortunately they thought they could create a neutral space between competing Christian sects and a lasting harmony between them. It was a grave and deadly mistake. The void has been filled by emergent anti-Christs; with policy leaning their way.

From Liberty bell to FEMA camps in only 200 odd years.

Blogger ECM December 17, 2013 5:17 PM  

The constitution has made it clear from the get go that religion is a private matter and that the government is not to be involved in it.

Tell that to the *state churches* that were in effect, in some cases, until well into the 19th century (see Massachusetts up to 1833, as one example)--do guys like you just make things up as you go along, or...?

Anonymous kh123 December 17, 2013 5:35 PM  

"I think the defeatism is an excuse to avoid responsibility and general laziness. "

I think, as a general rule, non-sociopaths don't relish the idea of a sword of division and (if a situation like Ulster is any indication) all that it usually entails when it becomes national/political in scope. Uncomfortable prospects tend to be put off until absolutely necessary.

Glass half full; take it as a mark of civilized folks who have never had to denounce, expel or kill.

Anonymous patrick kelly December 17, 2013 5:38 PM  

"You mean like the Amish......the Mennonites... etc. "

They both appear to be doing fine from where I'm looking.

Anonymous Porky December 17, 2013 5:57 PM  

You're a moron Porky.

Perhaps. But tomorrow I will be just a tiny bit smarter. And you will still be a fat drunk.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 17, 2013 9:35 PM  

simplytimothy said:

"Laramie, speaking for myself, I call bullshit on your defeatism.

The Holy Spirit is alive and well in this country and He is very angry. When I started following His promptings several years ago to get ready for the load of hurt that is coming, I was pleasantly surprised at how many people I ran into who where DOING the same thing."

Sure, the Holy Spirit is alive in this country. Never denied that. However, just because God is ever-present in America--that does not mean He intends to do what you want. Just because you want all the Christians to rise up against the godless, that doesn't mean God will do it your way.

God punishes a people by giving them bad leaders. It is obvious what is happening.

Nor am I being defeatist. There is much that a Christian ought to do to preserve their soul in these circumstances.

Anonymous Lana December 17, 2013 9:49 PM  

Josh,

If you did, you would know that the examples given are church communities with families.

I read the article and it sounds like a group of communities, similar to homeschooling families. The problem I see is simply this. There aren't enough of them to make a difference. The percentage of people willing to opt out seems to be so tiny as to be irrelevant. Not to each family of course, but to create a movement it's seriously lacking. The vast majority of Christians are still putting their children in public school and attempting to fight Common Core as if that's the real problem. It's absurd. I got into a ridiculous discussion on twitter in 2009 with a guy who was bravely keeping his children out of school the day Obama was going to speak to the kiddies, as if every other day of indoctrination was fine so long as Obama didn't yack at the kiddies personally. Even as they spend all their days fighting against the degradation of the country, they dutifully drive their children to the state indoctrination system. What will it take for these folks to abandon the system? I have no idea, but they are not there, in the numbers necessary to make a difference.

Blogger James Dixon December 17, 2013 10:18 PM  

> But tomorrow I will be just a tiny bit smarter.

And an incurable optimist.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 17, 2013 10:24 PM  

Jartstar said: "I'm curious to know if so many defeatist Christians here talk like this around their own local churches and families."

I've been accused of defeatism earlier, so I'm assuming you're lumping me in with defeatists.

Do you really think that Obama and his fellow Marxists and atheists has pulled the wool over God's eyes and managed to dupe America somehow into getting power? Do you think all of this has happened without God knowing about it?

God puts men of power in their places, and He allows men of power to take their places.

God is not at the mercy of our indecisions about a Christian re-taking of America.

God has allowed us to have the leaders we have.

As for waiting for the Christian Man to rise up and make his move...you'll be waiting a long time. If you are waiting for Christian men to retake America somehow, then you are clearly putting your faith in men.

I do not put my faith in men. I especially do not put my faith in men who have allowed everything to happen as it has.

The Christian Man is TARDY. I only see men with spines lightly peppering this country.

As for talking this way--realistically--around our fellow churchmen and families, my answer is yes. Me and mine know the score, as do my fellow laymen.

In fact, this year was the most that I've heard such a large amount of homilies discussing the impending persecutions we are about to endure.

Blogger John Luzzi December 17, 2013 11:08 PM  

"Tolerance is not a virtue, it is nothing more than weakness and self-inflicted vulnerability."

This is a great quote, I will bring it up tomorrow in my 10th grade World History class.

Anonymous Robert in Arabia December 17, 2013 11:21 PM  

Any hope for the maintenance of Christian civilization in America died at Stalingrand.
Stalin' s allies triumphed.
The poison that Hitler fought triumphed.
Whe the first legal abortion was announced in Chicago I went to the hospital to protest. I expected to see priest and nuns protesting at the entrance to the hospital. There was nobody there but me.

Anonymous A Real Fine Mess December 17, 2013 11:54 PM  

“BUT MAYBE THIS TIME....Christians will remember what happens when fellow Christians start talking about TOLERATION and ACCEPTANCE of non-Christians. If you want to have a Christian society, I do not see a problem. It is a big world and there is plenty of room for everybody...... including Christians...... but they do not all have to live in the same house.”


Acts 10:28 And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew  to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but  God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.”
The lesson, which you clearly did not learn as a Christian, is that God commands His community to accept people, regardless of their background, who fear God, into their home. A Gentile is not to be avoided because he is a Gentile; God destroyed the partition wall which separated them from the Jews. Heed His message, and heed it well.


"Citizens of the US" is an apt description; "fellow Americans" of course does not apply. Therein lies a difference."

There is NO difference. The citizens of the U.S. constitute Americans, which consist of a blending of distinct groups of people, each with their unique traits, who have the ultimate goal of becoming embedded into society. Identity is multidimensional and multifunctional.


“Rebuilding culture: what do y'all think about the Benedict Option ?”

Great story, but it’s self-serving. Today’s world is way too advanced, way too interconnected for this model to be anything more than a backwater brigade. Sad, but true. Besides, Christianity as your “mom and dad” remembered was not too flattering as one delves deeper into its origins; as a consequence, cultural renewal, if it ever comes to fruition, will be a combination of spiritual and secular components. Imagine a community of people who love their neighbors regardless of their cultural background (even southrons are part of the equation!), who practice hospitality, who worship and live together for the sake of the world rather than enable their own individual idiosyncrasies consume to them.

The United States is savable if we all practice what we preach...

Anonymous kh123 December 18, 2013 12:06 AM  

"The citizens of the U.S. constitute Americans, which consist of a blending of distinct groups of people, each with their unique traits, who have the ultimate goal of becoming embedded into society."

Given the last part is obviously being ignored by large swaths of those citizens, is there even a choice in the matter as to whether or not one (or many) would want to be part of that multidimensional and multifunctional identity.

Therein lies the crux, and the contention. And some would say the cause for much needless grief in the future.

Anonymous kh123 December 18, 2013 12:12 AM  

...For clarity's sake: The question is whether or not there is a choice for those who have always been legal citizens of this country, and identify their national and cultural roots in the historical English Christian character of it. Not [fill in blank w/ nationality, race, or interest group] American.

Anonymous paradox December 18, 2013 12:38 AM  

As the US starts becoming more uncomfortable, due to economic decline, the population will turn back to Christianity. A lot less tolerant form of Christianity will rise. And It will be entertaining when the secular Marxists face intolerance by a US variant of the Iron Guard.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 18, 2013 12:55 AM  

A Real Fine Mess said:

"Imagine a community of people who love their neighbors regardless of their cultural background (even southrons are part of the equation!), who practice hospitality, who worship and live together for the sake of the world rather than enable their own individual idiosyncrasies consume to them."

Uh, I don't know if you noticed or where you live, but white people are afraid of black people, and they consider them feral. When a city becomes saturated with blacks and latinos, the white people move to the periphery.

Black people tend to commit the most crime, both against themselves, but also against white people.

Latinos move in, get comfortable, and out-endure everyone else until the whites and blacks are gone. In the far southwest of this country, they take up the cause of Latin and South American interests. You have obviously never heard of La Raza.

I don't know what fantasy land you're living in, but this place is ripe to become a warzone.

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 18, 2013 12:56 AM  

@ A Real Fine Mess

Also, no one gives a damn or has a lifetime to waste on "living together for the sake of the world."

Anonymous Obvious December 18, 2013 1:02 AM  

Where's this great Christian state that was made once before?

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 18, 2013 1:14 AM  

@ Obvious

In Europe. It's been systematically dismantled over the course of a half millennium. From what I understand, Vox lives there now by choice.

Anonymous A Real Fine Mess December 18, 2013 1:40 AM  

"Uh, I don't know if you noticed or where you live, but white people are afraid of black people, and they consider them feral."

Generalization. Only if you are "civilized" barbarian and a denier of your own humanity do you seriously believe that statement is true.


"When a city becomes saturated with blacks and latinos, the white people move to the periphery."

replace "blacks and latinos" with "poor, uneducated, and prone to violence" and you have something there!


"Black people tend to commit the most crime, both against themselves, but also against white people."

Assuming you are a highly educated man, you do realize that overall crime rates among blacks, has been steadily decreasing within the past two decades, that only 2 percent of black males commit a violent crime in a given year; whites are 6 times as likely to be murdered by another white person as by a black person, that more white people are reliant on welfare than black people, and that the illegitimacy among white women in their 20’s with some college rise more quickly than in any other group.


"In the far southwest of this country, they take up the cause of Latin and South American interests."

I realize the links are not the region you describe, but they suffice.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/print-edition/2013/12/06/latino-population-region-economy.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/print-edition/2013/12/06/sac-diversity-immigrants-economy-busines.html


"I don't know what fantasy land you're living in, but this place is ripe to become a warzone."

I will reserve judgement on your wild speculation pending the actual widespread movement by the niggers, chinks, southrons, Joos, etc. in the United States to wholeheartedly plan and engage in a classic ethnic cleansing battle royale. Feel free to begin the festivities at your leisure!


"Also, no one gives a damn or has a lifetime to waste on "living together for the sake of the world."

Because fatalism. :)

Blogger Laramie Hirsch December 18, 2013 1:56 AM  

@ A Real Fine Mess

You are fun. I wonder if I can reach you.

I said: "Uh, I don't know if you noticed or where you live, but white people are afraid of black people, and they consider them feral."

You countered: "Generalization. Only if you are "civilized" barbarian and a denier of your own humanity do you seriously believe that statement is true."

This amazes me. Utterly. I am not speaking from what I've read. I am not speaking from statistics. I speak from experience. I make no secret that I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The racial tension in this city is surprisingly thick.

Furthermore, I live in a part of the city that most people avoid. I live in what Vox would term "a vibrant community," and for the most part, all my neighbors and I stay in and lock the doors. I live on the North Side. The side where a lot of the reported crime happens. I'm on the front lines of this country's unspoken race experiment. I laugh back at scoffers. On one particular day of the week, I go to work and speak Spanish all day long. I am completely Caucasian with no Latino heritage. I had to learn this skill for my job.

I have a lot of room to talk, but I don't wish to divulge much more about myself if I can help it.

- - -

You said: "I will reserve judgement on your wild speculation pending the actual widespread movement by the niggers, chinks, southrons, Joos, etc. in the United States to wholeheartedly plan and engage in a classic ethnic cleansing battle royale."

You are branding me as someone who uses this language. I am not a racial supremacist. But I AM a racial realist. And most every other ethnicity EXCEPT WHITES easily acknowledges the difference between the ethnicities.

Also, skirmishes between ethnicities are already happening. I can easily refer to black-on-white fight mobs during state fairs, or even the latest "knock out game" that's swept the nation.
- - -

I said: "Also, no one gives a damn or has a lifetime to waste on "living together for the sake of the world."

You glibly said: "Because fatalism. :)"

Wrong. completely. Regular people choose not to "live for the world" or to live for Man. People usually either choose to live for Christ--which I do, and is the correct action--or, people choose to live for their base hedonistic pleasures, at which point they become tools for Satan.

Those who blindingly follow the Cult of Man are wasting their lives. This world will never reach the utopian perfection that liberals crave. People are too busy struggling with sin (or not) to allow for any sort of rose-colored outcome.

Anonymous kh123 December 18, 2013 2:23 AM  

I'll go ahead and assume someone's unfamiliar with the concept of relative-to-population-size or to-demographic.

Anonymous txx December 18, 2013 6:40 AM  

Obvious = the banned fag Tad?

OpenID simplytimothy December 18, 2013 8:41 AM  

Laramie, thank you for your kind answer and I mean you no ill will. My eschatological outloook is a bit sunnier than yours, is all.

Blogger James Dixon December 18, 2013 12:18 PM  

> Only if you are "civilized" barbarian and a denier of your own humanity do you seriously believe that statement is true.

As you appear to define humanity? That would be me.

Blogger Matamoros December 18, 2013 1:31 PM  

The Church consists of three parts: the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, and the Church Triumphant.

We here on earth are the Church Militant. The problem is that most Christians think they belong to the Church Masochist. They don't want to offend any one, want everyone to like them and don't have the courage of their convictions.

Christ was not a masochist, nor was he "meek" in the modern ideal, which equates with masochism. He spoke the truth, lived the truth, drove out the moneychangers, confronted the Pharisees, and died a Man.

We need to redevelop the Crusading zeal and ideal of holy war against those who oppose us, privately and publicly to advance the Faith.

Anonymous A Real Fine Mess December 19, 2013 1:24 AM  

“You are fun. I wonder if I can reach you.”

[Blushing gamma teenage boy] Gee whiz, um, yeah, you can reach me. Sure (nervous laughter).


“You countered...”

I am also speaking from statistics AND personal experience; hence, my correct analysis of your statement. Had you stated “majority” or “many” or some other qualifier, then your position would hold SOME truth.


“I make no secret that I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma. The racial tension in this city is surprisingly thick.”

And I also live in a “vibrant” neighborhood in a city where racial tension, like any other city, has its ebb and flow. BUT...we get along not because of race, but because of social class standing.


“You are branding me as someone who uses this language. I am not a racial supremacist.”



I will not fall for your shaming technique. I merely countered your bold assertion about the "this place is ripe for being a warzone". I provided two specific sources in which people from different backgrounds are able to co-exist and thrive.


"Wrong. completely. Regular people choose..."

Your entire assumption is predicated on your own confirmation biases, rendering it utterly useless. Try again.


“You glibly said...”

No, I correctly asserted.

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