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Monday, February 17, 2014

Victimless sex-trafficking

The reason all sane and responsible people don't give a damn about this so-called "sex trafficking" is that the girls involved are, quite literally, asking for it. In fact, they're not so much asking for it as demanding it:
A 2002 Justice Department study suggested that more than 1.6 million American juveniles run away or are kicked out of their home each year. Ernie Allen, a former president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, has estimated that at least 100,000 kids are sexually trafficked each year in the United States.

Perhaps they aren’t a priority because they’re seen as asking for it, not as victims. This was Emily’s fourth time running away, and she seems to have voluntarily connected with a pimp. Based on text messages that her family intercepted, Emily was apparently used by a pimp to recruit one of her girlfriends — a common practice.

“Made about 15 or 16 hundred,” Emily boasted to her friend in one text. “Come make money with me I promise u gonna be good.”

So it’s true that no one was holding a gun to Emily’s head. Then again, she was 15, in a perilous business. And, in this case it turned out, having sex with a half-dozen men a day and handing over every penny to an armed pimp....

Maria is bitter that the police haven’t done more. She has been pleading for months for help, hounding the police — and now she finds that her daughter has been advertised in four states on multiple prostitution websites and no one seems to have checked or noticed.

“I feel very strongly that it was racism,” Maria says. In fact, the Boston police force is admired nationally for its three-detective unit that fights human trafficking. This is the gold standard, yet, even here, a missing 15-year-old girl seemed to slip through the cracks.
If a girl is old enough to be permitted to make legal decisions about murdering her unborn child, then surely she is old enough to decide if she wants to sell her body for money. It's not racism, it's simple common sense to leave an idiotic young whore to suffer the obvious consequences of her decisions. What are the police supposed to do, waste time and resources bringing her back so that she can run away again? That's ridiculous.

If the mother put half the effort into raising her daughter that she appears to have put into hounding the police to fix her maternal failures, perhaps her daughter wouldn't have run away so many times. No doubt Mr. Kristoff's bleeding heart is in the right place, but he would do better to concentrate his efforts on saving those who want to be saved, not those who not only revel in their moral squalor, but attempt to infect others with it.

God abandons the human trash determined to go its own way and leaves it to its inevitable destruction. Man should follow his example.

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142 Comments:

Anonymous The Ubiquitous February 17, 2014 5:23 AM  

God abandons the human trash determined to go its own way and leaves it to its inevitable destruction.

God does an advantage or two over us, meaning that this ...

Man should follow his example.

... doesn't really follow.

Anonymous Sensei February 17, 2014 5:26 AM  

Yikes. This would seemingly be a rather extreme case of jumping from the particular to the universal.

God abandons the human trash determined to go its own way and leaves it to its inevitable destruction. Man should follow his example.

God intentionally allowed Himself to be killed by the human trash determined to go its own way, to provide us human trash determined to go our own way with a means to avoid said inevitable destruction, no?

I do fully intend to follow -His- example. But I'm not sure to which god you're referring above. Allah, perhaps? Ayn Rand?

Anonymous Aphelion February 17, 2014 5:42 AM  

Rough discussion to wake up to. Of course, God gave them over to their destruction, appears in Romans, and he does. But God also goes after his lost sheep. It is appropriate that this mother seek out to try and save her lost daughter, but she should not be casting aspersions on others. I can imagine she is as much a part of the problem as the daughter is.

Most 15 year old daughters from two parent, loving families don't choose to run off and become prostitutes.

Anonymous YIH February 17, 2014 5:44 AM  

While I do think prostitution should be legal (in much more than a few parts of Nevada) it still wouldn't be for minors either as whores or their customers.
Legal brothels or outcall services would be as scrupulous about ages as the pr0n industry and strip clubs. The ''adult entertainment'' industry was burned by that years ago. Since then they want verifiable proof of age in the form of state issued Driver's Licences or Passports.

Blogger JP February 17, 2014 5:52 AM  

God abandoned the Israelites when it was clear they'd rather literally burn their children in offer to Lucifer (or Dagon, Baal, etc) and pine for the well-endowed men of Egypt (seriously, go read Ezekiel again) who were their slave masters.

He gave them one final chance at ultimate salvation by offering His only Son as atonement. They responded by torturing and killing Him.

God responded by taking the "chosen people" status away from the 12 tribes of Israel and giving to anyone who would simply say "Thank you God, I accept".

There was a number of very clear points in time where God decided enough was enough and turned His face away from His people. It's right there in the Old Testament. There is also the admonition by Paul in the New Testament to shake the dust from your sandals and leave if the people you are preaching to are too pig-headed to listen.

Anonymous Rosalys February 17, 2014 6:08 AM  

There really isn't much one, or an entire police force, can do for someone hell bent - and I mean that literally - on going down a destructive path. I agree with Vox here that the police shouldn't be wasting time and resources on this particular case since this girl will just run away again. On the other hand Mommy should never give up praying for her daughter. At this point only the intervention of The Holy Spirit Himself can turn this girl around. In fact it is only the intervention of The Holy Spirit that can ever turn anyone around.

This girl makes is good a metaphor for the United States, much like Hosea's prostitute wife was a picture of Israel.

Anonymous realmatt February 17, 2014 6:09 AM  

So its not charming college age Frenchmen waiting at airports?

Anonymous Liam Neeson February 17, 2014 6:10 AM  

Vox, your arrogance offends me.

Anonymous VD February 17, 2014 6:16 AM  

God intentionally allowed Himself to be killed by the human trash determined to go its own way, to provide us human trash determined to go our own way with a means to avoid said inevitable destruction, no?

Once. He didn't do it five times. He offers us a chance. And if we don't take it, well, it's sheep and goats, wheat and chaff.

I'm not saying condemn everyone who screws up or makes a bad decision in their youth. But portraying a hard-core and headstrong young whore like this as a victim is appalling. How many people in need should go unhelped so that people can waste their efforts on this girl?

Anonymous realmatt February 17, 2014 6:16 AM  

I like how he imagines johns are beating the hell out of these girls.

Anonymous PhillipGeorge(c)2014 February 17, 2014 6:19 AM  

Your right but haven't argued the case at all well.

Jesus biological mother was maybe `14 or 15.

Every tribe on earth worth its salt begins to treat post puberty woman and men like young women and men.

Only in the modern socially retarded West was the word teenager invented.

African even today, like Syria is full of perfectly capable child soldiers.

King David was maybe 15 when he hacked off Goliath's head with Goliath's own sword.

The modern American premise on "child" raising is unsustainable. Like the economy it is unsustainable.

The Bar Mitzvah is a sensible thing. Of course a 15 is not a grown up but if you treat them like children you have robbed them blind of dignity and have created a perpetual moral and intellectual retard.

Anonymous VD February 17, 2014 6:21 AM  

I'm not sure to which god you're referring above. Allah, perhaps? Ayn Rand?

I'm referring to the God who abandons human souls to Hell, Sensei. I didn't take you for one of those believers in a warm, fuzzy God of Love and Nothing But Love, as opposed to the Lord God of Hosts.

Anonymous Sensei February 17, 2014 6:34 AM  

Vox, noted. It sounded like you were indeed suggesting that God doesn't give second chances and we shouldn't either.

Anonymous Sensei February 17, 2014 6:48 AM  

Ah.. phone commenting too slow, didn't notice the second reply.

I'm referring to the God who abandons human souls to Hell, Sensei. I didn't take you for one of those believers in a warm, fuzzy God of Love and Nothing But Love, as opposed to the Lord God of Hosts.

I'm pleased that you had "taken" me correctly. My current occupation wouldn't make much sense if I believed in that sort of 'god' for whom infinite love and infinite justice could be dichotomized and the one we like less discarded as too inconvenient a truth. As C.S.Lewis said, "what people mean when they say that God is love is often something quite different: they really mean 'Love is God.'"

However, as I noted above, I misinterpreted your statement as a general one, as it's stated rather gnomically.

Blogger Desiderius February 17, 2014 6:50 AM  

The distinction between second and fifth is a useful one to make. The refusal to make, or even consider, such distinctions is akin to leaving raw meat unrefrigerated - it invites corruption/infection. We've seen the results of doing so in spades.

Blogger LP 999/Eliza February 17, 2014 7:10 AM  

Deceptive sulfur choices. Good is evil evil is good plus for sale.

YIH, regarding the first article, America will have to also legalize more and more drugs to keep the populace tame and docile.



Anonymous FUBAR Nation Ben February 17, 2014 7:34 AM  

The father couldn't be reached for comment? Let me guess, the mom is a strong independent woman?

Anonymous Salt February 17, 2014 7:55 AM  

DARPA is on the job as to human trafficking.

Anonymous Tizona February 17, 2014 8:03 AM  

[1] Now the publicans and sinners drew near unto him to hear him. [2] And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying: This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. [3] And he spoke to them this parable, saying: [4] What man of you that hath an hundred sheep: and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert, and go after that which was lost, until he find it? [5] And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing: [6] And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?

OpenID cailcorishev February 17, 2014 8:16 AM  

One problem with liberals is their refusal to accept that sometimes in life there is no happy solution. Yes, allowing a 15-year-old girl to choose to be a prostitute and recruit her friends sucks. But dedicating considerable time and money to repeatedly chasing her down and hauling her home and trying to find someone else (her pimp, her johns, her father, anyone but her or her mother) to punish for her behavior sucks too. There's no good answer.

That's especially true in a society where 15-year-old girls have been told all their lives that they have a right to be and do whatever they want. You can have a society where girls are restricted in their choices and prevented from this kind of thing, or you can have a society which idolizes personal freedom and gets....what we have. You can't have the absolute freedom of the latter and the quality behavior of the former.

Blogger Bogey February 17, 2014 8:17 AM  

Is it the way of the world now or has it always been that if you stray you can really find yourself waist deep in filth?

Some people just have to fall a long way before they can come into the light.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp February 17, 2014 8:22 AM  

I'm not convinced you know enough about this sort of thing to have such strong opinions.

Anonymous daddynichol February 17, 2014 8:26 AM  

She was not lost. She knew exactly where she wanted to go. The parable of the Prodigal Son would be more appropriate.

Anonymous VD February 17, 2014 8:28 AM  

I'm not convinced you know enough about this sort of thing to have such strong opinions.

What more do you need to know that she did it once, was brought back, then ran away three more times to do it, while telling her friends how good it was? How sexist and racist can you be, to stand in the way of a young woman of color and her dreams?

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp February 17, 2014 8:30 AM  

I should be clearer. In the organic, multi-polar scheme of things, it is probably good that somebody takes the sort of stern line you're taking. That point of view is a part of the world, and should not be ignored or slighted. But I think you're forgetting that we are talking about young people who are a) usually severely damaged emotionally and b) have never had the benefit of a good moral education or a good example. They aren't exactly Rational Actors Acting Rationally And Taking the Consequences For Good Or Ill. They need to be examined differently.

Anonymous Alexander February 17, 2014 8:32 AM  

It's so weird. The same progs who go apeshit over the idea that Russia bans propagandizing young boys about the joys of gay sex are also going apeshit over the idea that we don't make more efforts to stop young girls voluntarily becoming whores.

Man, what a bunch of reactionary prudes.

Anonymous zen0 February 17, 2014 8:32 AM  

@ tizona

you know that sheep and goats are different animals, correct?

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 8:33 AM  

"What more do you need to know that she did it once, was brought back, then ran away three more times to do it, while telling her friends how good it was? How sexist and racist can you be, to stand in the way of a young woman of color and her dreams?"

This is actually the strongest argument there is for legalizing prostitution. Like it or not... many young women want to be prostitutes. That is literally their goal and dream.

Were prostitution legal and regulated those workers would be protected exactly the same way as other workers.

OpenID cailcorishev February 17, 2014 8:36 AM  

Tizona, I thought of that passage too. However, He also said: "And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off even the dust of your feet, for a testimony against them." There are many cases in scripture where a sinner gets one more chance, turns it down, and is condemned.

It's one thing if a lamb wanders off and gets lost because she thought she saw some pretty grass, and you go bring her back and she's glad to be back safe with the herd. But if that lamb keeps wandering off every day, and starts running as far as she can get and hiding, and it takes so long to find her that wolves start picking off other members of the herd while you're gone, that's another thing.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with an individual Christian or private organization trying to reach out to girls like this. It's probably a thankless task, but if you can save one, you're doing God's work. I do have a problem with using the cops for the job, though, and trying to blame someone other than the girl for her actions.

I also have a problem with a society that says a 15-year-old girl has a right to control her own body -- even if, as Vox mentioned, that means abortion -- but gets upset when some man makes a buck off what she voluntarily does with that control.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 8:37 AM  

...

I just realized Vox made a religious statement... cue BenYackov and 400 comments about catholic dogma and why its correct because catholics say so.

Anonymous Salt February 17, 2014 8:39 AM  

A.P.O.S., to what extent should anyone attempt correction? At some point one must say "have it your way" and walk on. But should you think otherwise, the trillion plus spent on, for instance, the war on drugs has not been enough.

Anonymous VD February 17, 2014 8:41 AM  

But I think you're forgetting that we are talking about young people who are a) usually severely damaged emotionally and b) have never had the benefit of a good moral education or a good example. They aren't exactly Rational Actors Acting Rationally And Taking the Consequences For Good Or Ill. They need to be examined differently.

I'm not forgetting it at all. What do you think is meant by "human trash"? They don't need to be examined differently, they need to be left to their own devices as long as they don't harm anyone else.

Anonymous anon February 17, 2014 8:43 AM  

"But I think you're forgetting that we are..."

I think you are forgetting they are libertarians.

Anonymous Tizona February 17, 2014 8:44 AM  

@ zeno

And God gave you the sheep vs goat detector? Because St. Paul, for instance, looked like one certain motherf*cking goat for a hot minute.

@ calicorishev

The "kicking the dust" is specifically related to *communities,* not individuals.

Anonymous ZhukovG February 17, 2014 8:44 AM  

@Nate

Perhaps I misunderstand, but I don’t think Vox has said anything in this thread that I, as a Roman Catholic, would find objectionable. Then again I am a Southern Nationalist, Libertarian Roman Catholic so I may be considered a vile apostate by my social justice gospel loving brethren.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp February 17, 2014 8:48 AM  

VD -- I dunno, man. I've done some work with people who are devoted to turning these kinds of kids around and setting them straight, and when they have a success --and they do-- I'll tell ya, it's a great day for the Lord.

Blogger James Dixon February 17, 2014 8:48 AM  

> ...that we are talking about young people who are a) usually severely damaged emotionally and b) have never had the benefit of a good moral education or a good example.

And whose responsibility was it to see that two things? Could it be the same person who's blaming the police for not doing enough?

Blogger James Dixon February 17, 2014 8:51 AM  

> ...and when they have a success --and they do-- I'll tell ya, it's a great day for the Lord.

Yes, it is. And it's a good thing for them do try. It's not a good thing for society to spend tax money on.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 8:52 AM  

"Perhaps I misunderstand, but I don’t think Vox has said anything in this thread that I, as a Roman Catholic, would find objectionable."

its an excuse to pontificate. It doesn't have to be objectionable.

Anonymous Alexander February 17, 2014 8:52 AM  

I am sure that NY Times readers normal reaction to outrage over whores would be to smugly sneer and say 'he without sin throw the first stone."

What changed, NYT? Y U Mad?

APAS, A fair point: but there is a difference between an individual choosing to attempt to help others. and forcing other people to do it.

Anonymous FrankNorman February 17, 2014 8:57 AM  

Nate, if you want to start a flamewar with the Roman Catholics, why don't you be the one to get the ball rolling?

Anonymous zen0 February 17, 2014 8:58 AM  

@tizona

And God gave you the sheep vs goat detector?

Does this mean you are claiming it for yourself?

Blogger James Dixon February 17, 2014 9:00 AM  

> Nate, if you want to start a flamewar with the Roman Catholics, why don't you be the one to get the ball rolling?

That's not the way it tends to work here, Frank, for whatever reason. Out of the innumerable Catholic vs Protestant threads on this blog, I don't think I've seen more than three that were started by general anti-Catholic comments.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp February 17, 2014 9:01 AM  

"there is a difference between an individual choosing to attempt to help others. and forcing other people to do it."

No argument from me on that score. Gov't intervention usually makes things worse anyway, it's not what I'm talking about. What I'm arguing for is not "more programs," which is ridiculous, but simply being wary about hardening your heart against people who may not deserve that.

Anonymous VD February 17, 2014 9:07 AM  

I've done some work with people who are devoted to turning these kinds of kids around and setting them straight, and when they have a success --and they do-- I'll tell ya, it's a great day for the Lord.

And I have the utmost respect for people like that. If this girl needs to talk to someone, it is Beau. But that is not the responsibility of the police, of government, or of society in general. And Kristoff's piece is a sob-story specifically designed to call for more public resources to address a problem they cannot possibly solve.

OpenID cailcorishev February 17, 2014 9:11 AM  

The "kicking the dust" is specifically related to *communities,* not individuals.

Yes, which makes it even harsher, since a community might have individuals who didn't deserve that treatment. Note that Jesus doesn't tell them to try reaching every single person in the community before shaking that dust.

Anyway, that was just the first one that came to mind. There are plenty of individual examples. Jesus didn't chase after Judas when he left the table. Or take Ananias and his wife: they sinned by withholding some wealth when joining the disciples (they were required to sell everything and give the proceeds to the group). Peter called in and condemned the husband, who was instantly struck dead. Then he called in the wife, gave her one chance to tell the truth (she didn't), then she got the same treatment. Then it says (Acts 5:11-12): "And there came great fear upon the whole church and upon all that heard these things. And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people." So in that case, it was more important to make an example of them for the sake of the larger community than to try to save them from themselves as individuals.

There's a golden mean between mercy and justice, between saving the one and setting the proper example for the many. If you take the "lost sheep" story out of context, naturally it sounds like we should pursue the sinner to the ends of the earth no matter what. But in context with all the other teachings, that's not so obvious. As someone pointed out, the Prodigal Son is a better analogy here, and he was left to figure it out and come home on his own.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 9:11 AM  

"Nate, if you want to start a flamewar with the Roman Catholics, why don't you be the one to get the ball rolling?"

if I want that.. I can do it I my place.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 9:13 AM  

"And Kristoff's piece is a sob-story specifically designed to call for more public resources to address a problem they cannot possibly solve."

but doggone it Vox! He just cares so doggone much!

And these are Good Girls Vox! Good Girls! and Bad Men are being Bad to them!

Anonymous Alexander February 17, 2014 9:17 AM  

The best part of the story is that the happy ending is that she's getting help and support now through a group called 'My Life My Choice.'

If we hadn't already crossed the parody horizon.

Anonymous frenchy February 17, 2014 9:49 AM  

@ Alexander,

That was funny, but what caught my eye was, "police from Homeland Security were involved."

So much for there being any semblance of jurisdiction in this country.

@ Sensei,

Don't forget that it was Paul, when talking about those in the church, that if they insist on doing the wrong thing, then to turn them over to the devil that per chance his dealing with them may bring them back.

And I see no reason why this would not apply to those outside of the church given that we as Christians are only required, if prompted by God, to warn/witness to a person once. That this girl did so numerous times, it's all on her.

And funny that in the OT, her parents could have had her stoned after seeing the Elders.

After reading the article, I get the impression the girl is gonna claim that she was a victim to get off easy, given that the guy who was pimping her has been charged with trafficking even though this girl left of her own free will.

P_ssy pass. You see, it's just not her fault.

Blogger Some dude February 17, 2014 9:52 AM  

@Nate

no, this is a strong argument to give fathers the right to properly beat the living hell out of their kids if the situation demands it. It's also a strong argument to scrap the family court system, and VAWA and pretty much everything else that gets in the way of a father to properly exert his authority.

It's also a strong argument for gun ownership, a strong argument for limiting immigration to a trickle, a strong argument for giving as much power as we can back into the hands of individual men who will quickly figure out how to take care of their business once they know a swat team won't be breaking down their door using money they earned.

I have endless sympathy for abused kids and women, I have so much sympathy for them, that I now believe very firmly in making absolutely clear that the police and courts must under no circumstances fuck with a man and his family.

Anonymous allyn71 February 17, 2014 10:02 AM  

"fathers the right to properly beat the living hell out of their kids if the situation demands it......and pretty much everything else that gets in the way of a father to properly exert his authority." - Some dude February 17, 2014 9:52 AM

73% of black children are born out of wedlock, 55% of Mexicans, and 35% of whites. Not to many fathers claiming their authority.

Her "Daddy" is most likely unknown or in prison. Even if he does know of his daughter, Xbox is so much cooler than dealing with that crazy little bitch.

Anonymous Josh February 17, 2014 10:22 AM  

This is actually the strongest argument there is for legalizing prostitution. Like it or not... many young women want to be prostitutes. That is literally their goal and dream.

The cambrian explosion of breastaurants over the last 5 years supports this idea

Anonymous dh February 17, 2014 10:22 AM  

All that's needed to prevent this problem is to allow parents to legally bind their children.

Anonymous Stilicho February 17, 2014 10:32 AM  

Were prostitution legal and regulated those workers would be protected exactly the same way as other workers.

Quite. Get the government involved and it can regulate those jobs out of existence just like it does with other jobs.

Anonymous Jonathan February 17, 2014 10:41 AM  

@ tizona

You completely missed the core message of the parable of the lost sheep. That message is that the saving blood of Jesus and God's grace is for each and everyone, regardless of their sins. It's got nothing to do with the earthly consequences of sin.

Yer bible readin' skilzz suxorz.

Anonymous Brandon February 17, 2014 10:54 AM  

What Vox said twenty times over...

Anonymous REG February 17, 2014 11:07 AM  

"dh February 17, 2014 10:22 AM

All that's needed to prevent this problem is to allow parents to legally bind their children."

Good point- I was next door to an office in the county courthouse once when a Child Welfare worker brought a mother, her 14 year old daughter into the office. The state employee began "You have to do what the judge orders to get your daughter back." Mom replied- "No- She will not obey me at home, You took her from me because I gave her rules to follow and she refused to follow the rules. Now you tell me that I have to take her back and let her do what she wants. No, You took her, you keep her." Worker: "You have to..." "No, you took her, you keep her."

I wanted to stick my head in the door and say "You go mom!"

Anonymous hausfrau February 17, 2014 11:14 AM  

That's the problem with vices "crimes". Legal solutions involving force can't address the internal, spiritual causes of the self harm. The consequences are built into the action just like alcoholism and gambling..... The parents can hardly blame the police for not caring when the "victim" doesn't seem to mind.

Anonymous Harsh February 17, 2014 11:32 AM  

I just realized Vox made a religious statement... cue BenYackov and 400 comments about catholic dogma and why its correct because catholics say so.

Careful, Nate. If you say his name two more times, he'll magically appear like Beetlejuice.

Anonymous damntull February 17, 2014 11:40 AM  

Nate's still butthurt about Ben, huh?

Blogger Marissa February 17, 2014 11:46 AM  

YIH, regarding the first article, America will have to also legalize more and more drugs to keep the populace tame and docile.

These drugs were not illegal until the early 20th century--why was this not an issue before then? As far as I'm aware, private efforts to ameliorate drug abuse started after the Civil War, when many wounded veterans became addicted to painkilling substances.

Anonymous joe doakes February 17, 2014 11:50 AM  

If we legalize prostitution, the Service Employees International Union will want to organize hookers. The oldest hags will have seniority so they'll be the ones on the street, the young hotties will be sitting on the bench in the union hall. Worse, OSHA will want to regulate working conditions to be as sterile and unromantic as possible, then the EEO office will step in to ensure pimps employ a sufficient number of women who traditionally have been under-represented as prostitutes - the fat, the lazy and the ugly. Whorehouses forced to offer old, fat, lazy, ugly sex workers in drab surroundings will lose money, requiring taxpayer bailouts until the President requires everyone to service a hooker once per week or else pay a fine for not servicing them (which the Roberts Court will find to be a Constitutional exercise of the taxation power).

Blogger JartStar February 17, 2014 11:52 AM  

There aren't enough social programs and money in the world to stop someone who intentionally wants to be self destructive. As Vox has eluded to the problem isn't a lack of societal programs but rather her that heart which must change. The prodigal son had a change of heart.

Blogger Matamoros February 17, 2014 12:01 PM  

The liberal comment would undoubtedly be along the "he who is without sin cast the first stone" line.

But Vox is correct. Jesus did also say "don't cast your pearls before swine."

Blogger JCclimber February 17, 2014 12:34 PM  

Thank you Demoncrats.
You brought these immigrants into this country, and set them up to be dependent on big daddy government. The sackless father WAS present in this story, by the way. I got the impression the biggest issue this family had with the whole thing (and the author of the piece as well) was that the evil 19 year old pimp was taking her money.

They are utter failures as parents. They cared far more about themselves than for their daughter. If they were truly concerned about her, they would have moved, with her, to some god-forsaken place after the first time she ran away. And there they could reorganize their whole family with hard work and suffering into something of value.

But the parents have always taken the easy way, the one which required less work, the free ride, the illegal job. Is it any wonder that their daughter went one step beyond and took the easy way that had the added benefit of hot sex with strange men? WIth a free pussy pass for the consequences?

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 February 17, 2014 12:41 PM  

"he who is without sin cast the first stone"

I'm not sure that even happened. The Bible's that I've read through state that most early manuscripts don't feature that story at all.

Anonymous WinstonWebb February 17, 2014 12:49 PM  

"he who is without sin cast the first stone"

It is mind-numbingly patronizing, arrogant, and just plain dumb when when jackasses that do NOT associate themselves with a certain religious group attempt to use one piece of said group's theology to bully and badger members of that group.
Bullshit is supposed to be brown, not transparent.

Anonymous Dr. J February 17, 2014 1:09 PM  

This is a tangent and therefore can be ignored in the context of this thread, but this week-end, I was introduced to the concept of universal reconciliation, espoused by two of my family members. It fits along the lines of the lost sheep parable above, I suppose, and seems to say that all souls will be redeemed, including those sent to hell - since God wills that all be saved. I got into a huge argument with two family members (at least one very well-versed scripturally) since I thought it was not scripturally supported. Of course, that led to the inevitable questions of scriptural autheniticity and reliability - something I accept partly on faith, and partly on the Bible's track record historically. I was accused of deifying the Bible and elevating it above the Holy Spirit - it got a little heated.

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered this particular heresy? It seems to me somewhat Calvanistic, but instead of the select, everybody gets in - eventually.

Blogger smraluvr February 17, 2014 1:11 PM  

The article is right, if a girl that age can consent to an abortion, she should be able to sell her body, OR put drugs in it, OR both.

Blogger James Dixon February 17, 2014 1:53 PM  

> I'm wondering if anyone has encountered this particular heresy?

Oh yeah. There's even a book on the topic. A quick Google search reveals that It appears to be "Love Wins" by Rob Bell. There may be others, of course.

Anonymous Diogenes February 17, 2014 2:01 PM  

Of course there's the question as to WHY so many teenage girls run away and become prostitutes. In many cases, the reason is that they have been repeatedly raped for years by their upstanding, Christian fathers. But let's not address that. Because Bible.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 2:04 PM  

"In many cases, the reason is that they have been repeatedly raped for years by their upstanding, Christian fathers. But let's not address that. Because Bible."

Ok Bright Boy.

First... define "many".

Then.. back up that statement.

Anonymous Noah B. February 17, 2014 2:08 PM  

In many cases, the reason is that they have been repeatedly raped for years by their upstanding, Christian fathers. But let's not address that. Because Bible.

>>Ignoring the obvious fact that scumbags often pretend to be decent people.

Anonymous allyn71 February 17, 2014 2:10 PM  

"... the reason is that they have been repeatedly raped for years by their upstanding, Christian fathers. But let's not address that. Because Bible." - Diogenes February 17, 2014 2:01 PM

Provide evidence for your assertion that Christian fathers raping their daughters is the primary reason for runaways and prostitution or shut the fuck up.

Anonymous Noah B. February 17, 2014 2:13 PM  

You have to be a really special kind of tard to look at the problem of child prostitution and blame Christianity.

Anonymous Josh February 17, 2014 2:17 PM  

You have to be a really special kind of tard to look at the problem of child prostitution and blame Christianity.

Religion Causes Prostitution. Because religion bad.

/atheist logic

Blogger Ragin' Dave February 17, 2014 2:23 PM  

I keep hearing about the "Lost Sheep", and all the various references used to describe this young hooker as a lost sheep, and all that jazz.

Look folks, if the young sheep kept wandering off, the shepherd would BREAK IT'S LEG. And since it was crippled, it couldn't wander off any more, and learned to stay with the herd. That's why the shepherd is always shown carrying the lost little sheep across his shoulders. IT CAN'T WALK TOO FAST WITH A BROKEN LEG.

If Jesus is the good shepherd, and we are his flock, what makes you think that Jesus won't break your leg if you continue to be the lost little sheep constantly wandering off on your own? If this young hooker keeps running off, and tries to recruit other young girls to be hookers, she'll get her leg broken, metaphorically speaking. Whether or not she learns from that remains to be seen. But anyone claiming that we have to rush out and treat her like an innocent little kid is reading a much different Bible than I am.

Blogger Whiskey February 17, 2014 2:50 PM  

I don't like sex trafficking, the ugly reality is that girls as young as nine, I repeat NINE are involved. It is an ugly business, and moreover fueled by ... immigrants. Ordinary Middle/Working class White guys FOR THE MOST PART substitute cheap and easy porn for prostitutes. Which for society is healthier than sex trafficking. Not the least is the elimination mostly of a vector of disease.

Conservatives ought to hammer home that diversity and mass immigration equals sex trafficking. Over and over and over again. Just like in France, Diversity = Hitler. (Really, Blacks and Muslims are the ones doing Quenelles in front of the place where the two Jewish kids and a rabbi where murdered in 2012 at a synagoge by a Muslim).

Get rid of sex trafficking and you eliminate a lot of ancillary crime.

Anonymous Huggy Bear February 17, 2014 2:58 PM  

It's interesting how so many of these young girls, who grow up without a father at home, go seeking the alpha/father figure elsewhere. The pimp makes no pretense about being on equal ground as the girl. The pimp"owns" the girl and if she gets uppity or disobedient she gets a session with the pimp hand.
The girls crave the "head of the house" and when the don't find him in church, they do find him in the tricked out Escalade

OpenID cailcorishev February 17, 2014 3:12 PM  

I'm wondering if anyone has encountered this particular heresy?

Universalists, first organized as a specific creed in the mid-1700s in London, and then spread to the US. I suspect it cropped up unofficially at various times in previous centuries, though.

It appears to be the unofficial belief of mainstream secular religion, which is more or less Moralistic Therapeutic Deism. People seem to assume that if there is a Hell, it's a fairly empty place, perhaps containing Satan, Hitler, and a few especially bad serial killers.

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man February 17, 2014 3:20 PM  

Obviously, the honest man is not to be found in the mirror, eh, Diogenes?

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 3:24 PM  

oh look... 90 minutes later... Diogenes hasn't backed up his assertion.

Shocking.

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man February 17, 2014 3:35 PM  

Woody Allen turned Christian? Who knew?

Blogger WATYF February 17, 2014 3:45 PM  

Or take Ananias and his wife: they sinned by withholding some wealth when joining the disciples (they were required to sell everything and give the proceeds to the group). Peter called in and condemned the husband, who was instantly struck dead. Then he called in the wife, gave her one chance to tell the truth (she didn't), then she got the same treatment.

Not to nitpick, but this isn't entirely true. New disciples weren't "required" to hand everything over. Their communal system was entirely voluntary (as stated by Peter himself in Act 5:4 when he confronted Ananias). The problem was that Ananias sold his property, kept back some for himself, and then lied to the disciples about the amount of the sale. Again, Peter explicitly references this when telling Ananias, "You have not lied to men, but to God".

WATYF

Blogger WATYF February 17, 2014 3:53 PM  

And I have the utmost respect for people like that. If this girl needs to talk to someone, it is Beau. But that is not the responsibility of the police, of government, or of society in general.

To be fair, the content of your post doesn't indicate that your opposition is solely to the allocation of "state resources" (notwithstanding your mention of the futility of getting the police involved). It sure sounded like you were saying that everyone (as individuals) should wash their hands of these people and give up on them.

As someone pointed out earlier, The Apostle Paul sure looked like someone who was "reveling in his squalor and attempting to infect others with it", and yet God's response was not to abandon him.

I'm curious what metric you think we should use to decide when to leave someone to their devices.

WATYF

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man February 17, 2014 3:57 PM  

North Korea is now a Christian state? Who knew?

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man February 17, 2014 3:59 PM  

China is now a Christian state? Who knew?

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man February 17, 2014 4:01 PM  

India is now a Christian state? Who knew?

Anonymous Truth February 17, 2014 4:16 PM  

It's articles like these that make Teddy B. hard to ignore. The fact that he can so easily dismiss the exploitation of a child is sickening. Abortion isn't even relevant to the conversation yet he has to throw it in there, too.

No one knows what kind of mother we're talking about here. No one knows how the girl got lured into prostitution. And even if the mother has failed completely, the daughter would be better served in social services than under the armed watch of a pimp.

Vox is an awful example of a Christian.... no, of a human being.

Anonymous WinstonWebb February 17, 2014 4:25 PM  

Truth February 17, 2014 4:16 PM
...The fact that he can so easily dismiss the exploitation of a child is sickening. Abortion isn't even relevant to the conversation yet he has to throw it in there, too.


Your (intentional?) inability to see relevance does not make it irrelevant.
You make the statement that the 15-year-old in question is a child. Is she?
If so, then she is immature and incapable of making a decision about her body (be it alcohol consumption, sex, prostitution, abortion, tattoos, piercings...) without parental guidance.
If she is not a child, then these are all her own decisions to make and consequences to face.

Which is it, Truth?

Thank you,

Anonymous I Am Irony, Man February 17, 2014 4:26 PM  

Truth: "the daughter would be better served in social services than under the armed watch of a pimp."

Unless the Truth is that social services is the one putting girls under that watch.

Blogger Marissa February 17, 2014 4:34 PM  

Diogenes is a woman. Or a fag. It mentioned having to take care of its sick boyfriend in a self-pity party comment on the recent women in the military post. Remember, through the lens of the average woman, it's the evil white male Christian Western civilization-building fathers who are responsible for the majority of daughter-rape...even though they are statistically the least likely to do.

OpenID cailcorishev February 17, 2014 4:34 PM  

WATYF, thanks for the correction. I checked, and it says everyone in the group did hold everything in common, but not that they were required to.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 4:42 PM  

"No one knows what kind of mother we're talking about here. No one knows how the girl got lured into prostitution."

The awesome thing is... you think girls have to be "lured" into prostitution.

OpenID cailcorishev February 17, 2014 5:37 PM  

Yes, that should be the whole point of the article: this girl is (or thinks she is) having a great time. So great that she wants to share it with her friends. There's no "luring" at all, except maybe attempts by her mother to lure her back to a life that she probably considers boring and childish.

Is that because she's broken due to things people did to her? Maybe. Maybe not. We have no evidence that it is, except for the modern assumption that females do no wrong unless a man tricks or forces them into it. But the unpalatable fact is that girls enjoy the power that their sex appeal gives them over men, and for some that translates into having sex with lots of men so they can enjoy that power. Take away moral and societal boundaries, as we've done, and some will choose that path. Millions of girls post selfies; she's just taken the same thing to a greater extreme. It's not complicated.

OpenID tacticaltoolbox February 17, 2014 5:39 PM  

I think the original story is a good example of how God's regulations (which I advocate are best to follow as the standard for rightness) are a minimalist way in which to regulate societies. The primary sexual relations regulations relating to women/wives/virigins can be found in Deut 22 and Exodous 22. What is not found in there is a general prohibition on rape. Forced sexual relations are not prohibited so much as the relationship is regulated. For virgins not espoused/betrothed, the rapist or seducer is forced to marry the now humbled virgin. Married and betrothed women, the rapist dies. Who is not mentioned? The non-virgin, non-married is not mentioned. Most people call this woman a harlot, but she is what would be most of the college girls on the dating scene today. That class of women is not protected from rape, etc. That class exists outside the protection of the law. Only certain subclasses of women are stoned for not being a virgin (priest's daughters and girls lying about their virginity to an espoused husband).

This means God is saying, "Go ahead, choose to lose your virginity. But you will be afforded NO PROTECTION." How many women chose this willingly now? See how the white knighting of .gov and police has CAUSED the problem we see today? It is highly related in the same way to the reward for divorce (child custody, support, etc.).

And this is why I agree with the people saying fathers need to be pretty much supreme when dealing with their families. It isn't perfect, but it's far better than the alternative of .gov making the decisions.

Anonymous DT February 17, 2014 5:42 PM  

The awesome thing is... you think girls have to be "lured" into prostitution.

In the modern west we are taught from a very young age that the male appetite for sex is animalistic, dangerous, and difficult to control. While the female appetite is evolved, romantic, and disciplined. Men want to sleep around, women want monogamy. Men think about sex all the time, women think about romance and commitment. Men will screw anything, women are selective. Therefore no woman could ever sell herself to random men unless she is being forced to by an evil man. Women are, after all, innocent little angels.

The truth is very nearly the opposite.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 5:51 PM  

"The truth is very nearly the opposite."

Precisely.

Anonymous Truth February 17, 2014 5:55 PM  

The girl in question is 15. Fifteen year old girls don't want to be prostitutes unless they've been manipulated in some way or another. Or perhaps if they have some neurological/mental condition.

Abortion isn't relevant because the case doesn't involve abortion. It's as if some of you are suggesting that it's okay for a 15 year old girl to be prostituted by an armed pimp simply because it's also legal for her to get an abortion. I understand that you hate abortion, but you don't have to hate 15 year old girls as a consequence.

Anonymous WinstonWebb February 17, 2014 6:05 PM  

Truth February 17, 2014 5:55 PM

The girl in question is 15.


Yes, that has been established. Yet you did not answer my question. It's really a simple one:

Is this 15-year-old girl a child?

Please answer.

Anonymous Wally February 17, 2014 6:11 PM  

The jew commentator Whiskey writes "Blacks and Muslims are the ones doing Qeunelles in front of the place where the two jewish kids and a rabbi where murdered in 2012 at a synagoge by a musllim."

Whiskey forgot to mention, of course, that blacks and muslims are in France thanks to jews. Jewish groups, jewish politicians, jewish financiers, jewish professors and jewish media promoted the idea that France should be a multi-racial country. Any native French Celtic/Germanic people who opposed that were attacked by Jews. Jews pushed for the changing of immigration laws which opened the borders allowing in blacks and muslims, so that France could be become a multi-racial society.

But of course Whiskey left out his fellow jews role in the current situation.

Anonymous allyn71 February 17, 2014 7:06 PM  

" Fifteen year old girls don't want to be prostitutes..." - Truth February 17, 2014 5:55 PM

This 15 year old obviously did. She ran away 4 times to be a prostitute and recruited a friend to join her.

As others here have noted but your too ignorant to understand, she enjoys that life whether it is for the money, the attention, the excitement, whatever. It doesn't matter as to why, she observably does want to be a prostitute at 15 of her own free will.

Using state resources to do what the family should have been doing doesn't make any sense. Redemption only comes after repentance. This 15 year old whore is obviously unrepentant about it and if given the chance will return to that life once again. Can't saved those that insist on being damned.

Aahh, how the truth hurts.

Anonymous Truth February 17, 2014 8:22 PM  

Allyn71,

You I provided context in the rest of that sentence that you conveniently left out of the quote. Yes, she ran away to be a prostitute. It's highly improbable that she did so without being manipulated.

Teenage girls don't aspire to be prostitutes without some catastrophically negative influence in their life.

Blogger Ragin' Dave February 17, 2014 8:32 PM  

"Teenage girls don't aspire to be prostitutes without some catastrophically negative influence in their life."

You mean like the Welfare State and the Progressive Culture of Government Dependance, coupled with modern Feminism that states men aren't needed in raising a child?

You know, you and I might actually agree on that!

Anonymous Thomas Malthus February 17, 2014 8:33 PM  

Indeed, Stickwick! Females in their childbearing prime ought to be shamed, nay coerced, into abandoning their own hopes, dreams, and aspirations and procreating with a God-fearing man! I humbly argue that social pressure has generally NOT produced the desired results; only legislation modeled after “Mother Russia” (right, Nate?) will induce women to birth and raise children. Socialist medicine to cure those baby blues--direct cash payments to females for every child popped out like popcorn and accommodating work schedules to account for those udderly ridiculous late night feeding frenzies!

Even if young men and women are ill-prepared emotionally and/or financially to care for them (freedom be damned!) at the tender age of 24, and despite the wolf of Cultural Marxism that breathes down the neck of innocent Robby or Libby, every single member of the Christian libertarian intelligentsia or Greek Orthodox Brigade is obligated to hit the lecture circuit and step onto the soapbox, with bullhorn in tow, to proudly advertise to the Roissy’s and feminazi’s of the world that their outright refusal to settle down and raise (white) children is a recipe for demographic homicide.

Anonymous Thomas Malthus February 17, 2014 8:37 PM  

Oops, wrong thread. As they say in the hood, "my bad".

Anonymous allyn71 February 17, 2014 8:45 PM  

"It's highly improbable that she did so without being manipulated." - Truth February 17, 2014 8:22 PM

Just because you keep saying that but it doesn't make it so.

She was taken home 3 other times by the state, she ran to her pimp as soon as she could each time. If she was so against being a whore she had plenty of opportunity to find refuge. She is choosing this of her own FREE WILL. I know accepting that idea will destroy your world view, doesn't change the fact that it is true.

Anonymous Alexander February 17, 2014 9:04 PM  

No, no - I think Ragin' Dave is onto something here, guys.

Anonymous WinstonWebb February 17, 2014 9:24 PM  

Truth February 17, 2014 8:22 PM

Allyn71,

You I provided context in the rest of that sentence that you conveniently left out of the quote.


And I've twice asked a simple question that you are dodging:

Is this 15-year-old girl a child?

Please answer.


Anonymous truth zen0 February 17, 2014 9:37 PM  

@ truth (the naive)

No one knows how the girl got lured into prostitution. And even if the mother has failed completely, the daughter would be better served in social services than under the armed watch of a pimp.

Pimp be armed to protect his stable, not to threaten the bitchez. Pimp got the LUV and the Crank the bitchez want, yo.

Just got to catch 'em when they be on the ovulation, and they be outta they minds, truth boy.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp February 17, 2014 10:23 PM  

"It's highly improbable that she did so without being manipulated." - Truth February 17, 2014 8:22 PM"

Like I say, it's very unlikely that ANY of you know what the hell you're talking about when you discuss this population. Chatter on in ignorance, douchebags. Whatevs.

Blogger Nate February 17, 2014 11:02 PM  

"The girl in question is 15. Fifteen year old girls don't want to be prostitutes unless they've been manipulated in some way or another. Or perhaps if they have some neurological/mental condition."

That can just be your special little secret there buddy.

In the rest of the world... "High currency escort" is one of the most popular answers school girls give when asked what their dream profession is.

But do go one believing that girls are just pure as the driven snow until bad people corrupt them.

I would certainly hate to disabuse you of your precious little innocence.

Anonymous A Plate of Shrimp February 18, 2014 7:35 AM  

Yes, and "married to a handsome prince" is a topliner, too. And ten-year-old boys all want to be astronauts, firemen, and airplane pilots. Stop being silly.

Anonymous Diogenes February 18, 2014 8:01 AM  

A few statistics for those who have gotten to live in fairyland all their lives: http://womensissues.about.com/od/girlsteensyoungwomen/a/10-Facts-About-Child-Sexual-Abuse-Statistics.htm

25 percent of all girls are sexually molested before the age of 18.
20 percent of all sexual molesters are the father of the victim.

Doing a little math, that means that 5% of all women were sexually molested by their own fathers before the age of 18. Assuming for the sake of simplicity that half the population of this country are women, that means that out of 150 million women, 7.5 million were sexually molested as children by their own fathers.

Is 7.5 million a 'lot'?

Let me guess? More handwaving and denial. Because we want to have slut-shaming for the women, not look at anything men might be doing. And if it weren't for the badnaughtyevil atheists, Catholic priests would be sexually molesting children.

Anonymous Diogenes February 18, 2014 8:05 AM  

**As others here have noted but your too ignorant to understand, she enjoys that life whether it is for the money, the attention, the excitement, whatever. It doesn't matter as to why, she observably does want to be a prostitute at 15 of her own free will.**

Yup. More slut shaming. Let's not disrupt our rose-colored view of the world by considering that some nice, decent, Christian, heterosexual families might actually be such a horribe environment for a child to live, that prostitution is actually a step up.

Anonymous Diogenes February 18, 2014 8:29 AM  

Marissa wrote:
**Remember, through the lens of the average woman, it's the evil white male Christian Western civilization-building fathers who are responsible for the majority of daughter-rape...even though they are statistically the least likely to do. **

Ah, no. Statistically, WOMEN are the least likely to sexually abuse children. Female pedophiles are extremely rare. And the original question was about the number of girls who were sexually molested by their own fathers, not about the race of those fathers. Your moving of the goalpost has been noted.

As for my 'lens', according to the US Department of Justice, WHITE prison inmates are 3 times more likely to have violated or assaulted a child than BLACK inmates.

http://childprotection.lifetips.com/cat/63573/sex-offender-statistics/index.html

Your 'heads you win-tails you lose' game has also been noted, in which if a woman doesn't do her work, she is 'malingering'. If she does her work, and the work of male malingerers as well, then she is having a 'pity party' if she complains about it. But apparently men get a pass, both on malingering, and complaining about female malingers.

Anonymous Discard February 18, 2014 8:46 AM  

Diogenes: It's not their fathers who molest girls, it's their mothers' husbands or boyfriends.

If Whites are more likely to be in prison for abusing children, it's because Blacks and Mexicans have a narrower view of what constitutes abuse. They can get away with more, among their own kind. Remember, Blacks have a murder rate 10x that of Whites, and Mexicans kill at five times the White rate. Their notions of right and wrong are different than ours.

Anonymous WinstonWebb February 18, 2014 9:33 AM  

Diogenes February 18, 2014 8:01 AM

A few statistics for those who have gotten to live in fairyland all their lives: http://womensissues.about.com/od/girlsteensyoungwomen/a/10-Facts-About-Child-Sexual-Abuse-Statistics.htm

25 percent of all girls are sexually molested before the age of 18.
20 percent of all sexual molesters are the father of the victim.


That's a bullshit statistic. The article you linked to has no supporting evidence for that claim. As a matter-of-fact, the link it shows for support is broken. Which is not surprising. Biological parents are the least likely parties to abuse their own children. The article you are claiming as support is no doubt playing fast and loose with the definition of "father" to include "step-dad" and "mom's boyfriend-of-the-month".

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn February 18, 2014 10:06 AM  

"People will do this action anyway; the truth is, they want it, and others want it. If it is illegal, they will have no recourse if they are injured or otherwise harmed during the deed. An outdated, antiquated, and anti-human rights Victorian Puritan theocratic society banned this act; it is a practise old as human history, and all those other civilisations survived just fine. Besides, we are wiser now, and surely morally sound enough that it will not increase in frequency and become socially acceptable. It is not the place of the State to determine morality, and in any event, it is the woman's body and therefore should be her private choice. We must make it safe, legal, and rare--for the good of the women."

Where have I heard these arguments before, I wonder? Ah, it must be my imagination...

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn February 18, 2014 10:09 AM  

The article you are claiming as support is no doubt playing fast and loose with the definition of "father" to include "step-dad" and "mom's boyfriend-of-the-month".

It is more like to be the definition of "molestation" that is played fast and loose.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 18, 2014 12:19 PM  

Cail,

> "Or take Ananias and his wife: they sinned by withholding some wealth when joining the disciples (they were required to sell everything and give the proceeds to the group). "

You may want to read that a little more closely. They were not required to sell all and donate it. Such was a purely voluntary action on their part and the part of many others. The sin was in lying about how much they gave, misrepresenting their actions. Note that Peter stated that it was in their hands, but lying to the Holy Spirit and to God (equating the two BTW) was what caused their death.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 18, 2014 12:21 PM  

I wish I hadn't missed the discussion, but I would warn everyone from judging the parents in all cases like this. We would have to restore the rights to parents to properly discipline such children if we wanted to hold them accountable.

We only held our (adopted) family together in the teen years because I was such a hard individual. We were not able to prevent all the foolishness like what this article exhibits. I am sure I made mistakes, but the fact that society supported the lies my children told over firm structure at home didn't help us in raising them.

Give parents authority if you want to hold them accountable.

Blogger Brad Andrews February 18, 2014 12:31 PM  

Diogenes,

Your claims are built on a wrong definition of who is a father and I am certain do not take into account false claims of abuse. Everything becomes abuse when speaking to someone in a loud voice is abuse.

Truth,

You are utterly full of it. You say abortion has nothing to do with the issue, but you are being ignorant. You claim she has the right to murder her own child, yet is not allowed to chose to make money or selling her body. Of course I am sure you would argue she could do this for free with any boy she was "in love with" at school.

Either you allow an individual to make choices and then hold them accountable to their choices or you do not. An inconsistent standard is just that, inconsistent.

Anonymous Diogenes February 18, 2014 4:09 PM  

WinstonWebb wrote:
**That's a bullshit statistic. The article you linked to has no supporting evidence for that claim. As a matter-of-fact, the link it shows for support is broken. Which is not surprising. Biological parents are the least likely parties to abuse their own children. The article you are claiming as support is no doubt playing fast and loose with the definition of "father" to include "step-dad" and "mom's boyfriend-of-the-month".**

1. People here demanded evidence. I provided evidence. As I expected, it was handwaved away.

2. The other issue you raise, that of the 'father' (doing the molesting) supposedly being the stepfather or moms boyfriend of the month, is a red herring and does not greatly change the original issue that I raised, namely that a lot of children run away and resort to prostitution because their home life sucks so bad, that prostitution is actually a step up. Or do these stepdads and boyfriends of the month exist in some special twilight zone, rather than in the child's home?

Anonymous Loki Sjalfsainn February 18, 2014 4:23 PM  

The other issue you raise, that of the 'father' (doing the molesting) supposedly being the stepfather or moms boyfriend of the month, is a red herring and does not greatly change the original issue that I raised

Which is, in your own words:

Of course there's the question as to WHY so many teenage girls run away and become prostitutes. In many cases, the reason is that they have been repeatedly raped for years by their upstanding, Christian fathers. But let's not address that. Because Bible.

Truly, Diogenes, if you are going to lie, try to do so in ways that cannot be refuted simply by scrolling up.

Blogger TM Lutas February 18, 2014 6:09 PM  

God does not abandon human beings. It is we who turn our backs on God. Were she to repent, this lost child of God would find Him there waiting.

Anonymous Bart February 18, 2014 9:11 PM  

Here we are in Roswell having a prayer meeting. Any needs, wants, prayer, please let us know. Ps. 32:6 let everyone who is godly pray

Anonymous DT February 18, 2014 9:22 PM  

1. People here demanded evidence. I provided evidence. As I expected, it was handwaved away.

You do not seem to understand what the word "evidence" means. Please look it up so that you do not waste the time of everyone else here.

2. The other issue you raise, that of the 'father' (doing the molesting) supposedly being the stepfather or moms boyfriend of the month, is a red herring and does not greatly change the original issue that I raised, namely that a lot of children run away and resort to prostitution because their home life sucks so bad, that prostitution is actually a step up.

As I recall you specifically claimed that "so many" girls run away to prostitution because their "Christian fathers" rape them. Though you may be able to claim that you did not explicitly state this, you clearly implied that prostitution is primarily due to rape by biological fathers who are Christians.

You have zero actual evidence to backup this assertion. No one here has provided hard data on...

* What percentage of sex workers were sexually and/or physically abused, and what percentage were not.

* The break down of abusers (father, stepfather, etc.) and their claimed religions.

"Claimed religion" is a key phrase. Your post was clearly a swipe at Christianity. But you have to be a fool to believe that any adult who would sexually abuse a child is actually a follower of Christ, whatever said adult may claim. Don't think your crude attack on Christianity is going to go unchallenged here.

Vox's points, while harsh, are not dependent on the underlying causes of a girl choosing prostitution. If she willfully and repeatedly chooses it his observations stand whatever the cause. You cannot rescue someone who does not want to be rescued. Why they do not wish to be rescued is irrelevant. God himself, who wishes that none would perish, never the less faces this dilemma.

Anonymous Bart February 18, 2014 9:47 PM  

Titus 3:3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done but because of his mercy.

Blogger Beau February 18, 2014 10:26 PM  

Heavenly Father,

Change this child's heart. She is foolish and wicked. She is evil to entice her friend toward destruction. No policeman, no social worker, no judge can change her, only by an act of mercy, yours, can she be saved. Save her, Lord, for your Name's sake. Redeem her, make her a powerful messenger of righteousness. Let her stand among the congregation of the redeemed and proclaim your glory and your grace. Thank you Lord Jesus. Amen.

Blogger Beau February 18, 2014 11:13 PM  

Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Corinthians 3:17

Father, we lift up the nation of the Ukraine. Pour out the power of the Holy Spirit to bring righteousness to their courts, councils, and executive leaders. Turn the hearts of this nation to you.

Father, we remember North Korea again. Bring Kim Jong Un to repentance and eternal life in Jesus Christ. Let him direct the closing of the camps, the release of prisoners, the opening of the southern border and reconciliation of the peninsula by Jesus of Nazareth.

Lord Jesus, hold very close those who suffer imprisonment for the sake of the gospel. Fan into flame the Iranian Revival.

We pray for the peace of Jerusalem and her surrounding neighbors. Let Jesus be recognized as the King of the Jews. May they be exalted in his name. May they be his glory and his crown.

America, America, God mend thine every flaw

Help South Africa, father. Let them be a shining beacon on a hill. Let them be the light of the world. Let the nations of the earth marvel at your majesty at work in the hearts of South Africans.

Father, bring forth men to labor at your harvest.

Anonymous Steve February 18, 2014 11:34 PM  

"Whiskey forgot to mention, of course, that blacks and muslims are in France thanks to jews."

Utter complete ignorant nonsense.

Most Jews in France are Sephardic refugees from Algeria. They know Arabs and Africans very well, as they had the tremendous misfortune to live among them before France's colonial empire collapsed. Anyone who believes they wanted Muslim or African or Arab immigration to France is simply mad. As for the older, smaller Jewish population: no they did not advocate for open immigration into France. France did that to itself in the 1950s and 1960s when it had a labor shortage and its economy was booming. Charles De Gaulle, the ultimate Frenchman, did that to France.

Anonymous Fred Garvin February 18, 2014 11:39 PM  

“She is choosing this of her own FREE WILL. I know accepting that idea will destroy your world view, doesn't change the fact that it is true.”

Please, nigga. She has been taught by a man that she is worthless unless he provides for her, and there is no other individual worthy of her attention. But by all means continue to think that her situation is the exclusive result of her decision making.


“Can't saved those that insist on being damned.”

Indeed. Man wants woman to marry, but prefers that her orifices have not been repeatedly abused by other men. Man proceeds to “pump and dump” several woman over the course of their journey toward matrimony--because women who “give it up” easily are desirable in the short-term--yet bitterly complains when that “ideal” woman cannot be found...because his fellow man has fucked them over in more ways than one. Hypocritical? Absolutely. Looks like Roissy and his acolytes will enjoy hell.


“If so, then she is immature and incapable of making a decision about her body (be it alcohol consumption, sex, prostitution, abortion, tattoos, piercings...) without parental guidance.
If she is not a child, then these are all her own decisions to make and consequences to face.”


She is a child who is aware that her decisions have consequences, but she has been placed in a situation where she cannot exercise that freedom of choice because someone else dominates her physically and emotionally.

Anonymous DT February 19, 2014 2:45 AM  

She is a child who is aware that her decisions have consequences, but she has been placed in a situation where she cannot exercise that freedom of choice because someone else dominates her physically and emotionally.

Which explains why she ran back to her pimp every time she was set free.

Oh...wait...that completely fails to explain why she ran back to her pimp every time she was set free. My mistake.

Anonymous Diogenes February 19, 2014 3:23 AM  

DT wrote: ** But you have to be a fool to believe that any adult who would sexually abuse a child is actually a follower of Christ, whatever said adult may claim.**

No True Scotsman fallacy.

Anonymous Diogenes February 19, 2014 3:27 AM  

Diogenes wrote: **The other issue you raise, that of the 'father' (doing the molesting) supposedly being the stepfather or moms boyfriend of the month, is a red herring and does not greatly change the original issue that I raised

Loki: Which is, in your own words:

Diogenes: Of course there's the question as to WHY so many teenage girls run away and become prostitutes. In many cases, the reason is that they have been repeatedly raped for years by their upstanding, Christian fathers. But let's not address that. Because Bible.

Loki: Truly, Diogenes, if you are going to lie, try to do so in ways that cannot be refuted simply by scrolling up.

Loki, you are deliberately handwaving to avoid the issue that these sexual molesters, be they fathers, stepfathers, or moms boytoy of the month exist, and make very unpleasant, the child's HOME ENVIRONMENT. If it's your contention that stepfathers and boytoys of the month exist in a place other than the child's home, then explain where this place is.

Anonymous Diogenes February 19, 2014 3:30 AM  

DT wrote: *You do not seem to understand what the word "evidence" means. Please look it up so that you do not waste the time of everyone else here.*

So, given that physical evidence, and links are all handwaved away if they disagree with your predetermined conclusions, I assume that your definition of 'evidence' is anything, however implausible, that DOES agree with your predetermined conclusions.

Anonymous DT February 19, 2014 6:47 AM  

No True Scotsman fallacy.

What did Christ preach about harming children? Once you've answered that question for yourself and taken some time to let it sink in, you can answer the following question: can anyone who would sexually abuse a child accurately claim to follow Christ?

I'm sure some daughters are raped by their Democrat fathers. You don't see me running around defining prostitution as a problem of Democrats raping their little girls.

So, given that physical evidence, and links are all handwaved away...

I found one link that did not discuss physical evidence, only an "estimate" that appears to be a rehashing of the long discredited feminist trope that 1 in 4 women are raped.

From that you concluded that prostitution wouldn't exist if it wasn't for "Christian fathers" raping little girls. That may tell us a great deal about you and your biases and issues. But it certainly is not a rational conclusion about anything else.

Anonymous WinstonWebb February 19, 2014 1:39 PM  

Diogenes,
The moment that you are willing to admit that this statement was complete and utter bullshit -

In many cases, the reason is that they have been repeatedly raped for years by their upstanding, Christian fathers.

- is the moment others might be willing to discuss "evidence" of your other claims.

As long as you continue to passively deny this unwarranted, unsupportable smear by ignoring that you said it, then you should not expect (and will not receive) any benefit of the doubt on any other point you may attempt to make.

Anonymous Saint Revolution February 23, 2014 6:03 PM  

VD:

You are wrongheaded here.

...proven by in/un-disputable logic from The Mouth of God Incarnate, Jesus.

If you choose to speak for God (which even Jesus did not do), then remember...

God is Love (in The Magisterium and The Mystery of The Holy Trinity).

God, Incarnate, in Jesus Christ, is The Way, THE TRUTH, and The Life.

There is only One TRUTH...Love...again, God is Love.

Charity is the working Biblical verbose parallelism for Love.

...and thus...

DRV Douay-Rheims Version Bible w/ Challoner.
DRV = the only one true Bible via direct translation from The Latin Vulgate, Greek, and Hebrew by Saint Jerome, direct from The Scrolls.

First Epistle Of Saint Paul To The Corinthians
Chapter 13
DRV

Charity (Love) is to be preferred before all gifts.

[01] If I speak with the tongues of men, and of Angels, and have not Charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
[02] And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all Faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not Charity, I am nothing.
[03] And if I should distribute all my goods to feed the poor, and if I should deliver my body to be burned, and have not Charity, it profiteth me nothing.

[04] Charity is patient, is kind: Charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up;
[05] Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;

[06] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with The TRUTH;
[07] BEARETH all things, BELIEVETH all things, HOPETH all things, ENDURETH all things.
[08] Charity NEVER falleth away: whether prophecies shall be made void, or tongues shall cease, or knowledge shall be destroyed.
[09] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.

[11] When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But, when I became a man, I put away the things of a child.
[12] We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known.
[13] And now there remain Faith, Hope, and Charity, these three: but the greatest of these is Charity.

VD: you are a man...put away the immature opinions of a child.

Your role is not her role. Her present role is one of grievous mistakes. You mistake your place. Do not follow her immature wrong judgement with more immature wrong judgement.

You are not an fifteen year old female but an mature man of years, means, and wisdom. It is your place to take the husbandly and fatherly vow you made to God on your wedding day and apply your protection, as much as you can, to all those entrusted UNDER you within The Brotherhood Of Man. She, and all like her, ARE your Brothers (brethern) and you ARE your Brothers' keeper. Even unto the end (throughout The Passion, His final days and nights before crucifixion), Jesus did not condemn Judas nor speak for God. He left Judgement to God's Will alone...this obvious at The Last Supper, in Gethsemane, and on The Cross.

In other words, what if it was your daughter? Jesus The Good Shepherd never CHOSE to lose even one sheep.

Recall...The 7 Spiritual Works Of Mercy:
01. To admonish the sinner.
02. To instruct the ignorant.
03. To counsel the doubtful.
04. To comfort the sorrowful.
05. To bear wrongs patiently.
06. To forgive all injuries.
07. To pray for the living and the dead.


Remember...seven times seventy times...

Forgive, infinitely. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

It is rare to null I disagree with you...but here you are simply wrongheaded.

Who am I? I am simply an humble traditional Tridentine Latin Roman Catholic trying to perform my duty of/to The Spiritual Works Of Mercy.

OpenID girlwithadragonflytattoo.com May 08, 2015 6:26 AM  

You're such an idiot. They often do harm others even becoming older women who trap more women into sex slavery by force. You clearly have no idea that girls as young ss 3 or 5 years old are forced into the sex trade that comes even through my city... from Mexico, and travels everywhere from our city on in the US. I did used to work with trying to get women out of this... 76% of them were molested when young. God does not abandon them... He cares deeply and calls some people to go after them. And because of our police force in our city, which my husband is a part of, we've saved thousands of minors thanks to their involvement.

In other words, you're a fucking idiot.

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