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Friday, January 06, 2017

The 2nd Law of SJW in action

They always double down, even if it requires eating one of their own. Glenn Greenwald appears to be somewhat surprised that they would turn on him, of all people.
I’ve done some, you know, pretty controversial and polarizing reporting in the past decade when I’ve been writing about politics. And when you do that, you obviously get attacked in lots of different ways. It’s not just me; it’s everybody who engages. It’s just sort of the rough and tumble of politics and journalism. But I really haven’t experienced anything even remotely like the smear campaign that has been launched by Democrats in this really coordinated way ever since I began just expressing skepticism about the prevailing narrative over Russia and its role that it allegedly played in the election and, in particular, in helping to defeat Hillary Clinton. I mean, not even the reporting I did based on the Edward Snowden archive, which was extremely controversial in multiple countries around the world, not even that compared to the attacks now.

And the reason is very, very obvious, which is that it has become exceptionally important to Democratic partisans to believe that the reason they lost this election is not because they chose a candidate who was corrupt and who was extremely disliked and who symbolized all of the worst failings of the Democratic Party. It’s extremely important to them not to face what is really a systemic collapse on the part of the Democratic Party as a political force in the United States, in the House, in the Senate, in state houses and governorships all over the country. And so, in order not to face any of that and have to confront their own failings, they instead want to focus everything on Vladimir Putin and Russia and insist that the reason they lost was because this big, bad dictator interfered in the election. And anyone who challenges or anyone who questions that instantly becomes not just their enemy, but now, according to their framework, someone who’s actually unpatriotic, that if you question the evidence, the sufficiency of the evidence to support this theory, that somehow your loyalties are suspect, that you’re not just a critic of the Democratic Party, you’re actually a stooge of or an agent of the Kremlin.

And obviously we’ve seen this rhetoric for decades during the Cold War, although back then it was the far right using it against Democrats for wanting to have better relations with Russia. We saw it in 2002, when people who questioned the sufficiency of the evidence about Saddam’s WMDs were accused of being apologists for Saddam or agents of Iraq. We’ve seen it repeatedly through the war on terror. Whenever anyone questions the policies of the U.S. government, you get accused of being pro-terrorist or on the side of al-Qaeda. These are the kinds of bullying smear tactics that have become very common.

But because Democrats are so desperate to put the blame on everybody but themselves for the complete collapse of their party, they’re particularly furious at anybody who vocally challenges this narrative. And since I’ve been one of the people most vocally doing so, the smear campaign has been like none that I have ever encountered. I have been accused of being a member of the alt-right, of being an admirer of Breitbart, of being supportive of Donald Trump, of helping him get elected and, of course, of being a Kremlin operative. And it’s just this constant flow, not from fringe accounts online, but from the Democratic operatives and pundits with the greatest influence. In fact, Howard Dean, the former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, went on Twitter three weeks ago and said, "I think it would be really interesting to find out whether The Intercept is receiving money from Russia or Iran"—something that he obviously has zero evidence or basis for suggesting, but this is what the Democratic Party has become.
Welcome to the Alt-Right Neo-KKK, Mr. Greenwald!

This, and not dancing for the media, is how people are converted. They speak what they know to be truth, and are attacked for it. That is why we need to resolutely stand by the truth in every dialectic encounter.

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112 Comments:

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother January 06, 2017 12:53 PM  

No one could have seen this coming.

Anonymous fop January 06, 2017 1:00 PM  

Yeah, welcome. Now go get me some coffee, bitch.

Anonymous VFM #6306 January 06, 2017 1:02 PM  

Oh, what a horrible smear for a journalist to endure: to be called a Trump supporter.

If those are the worst attacks of his career, he is going to need to toughen up, now that he has joined the Russian KKK.

Anonymous Eduardo January 06, 2017 1:08 PM  

And another one bites the dust.

Anyways, why anyone can even care for the Democratic Party... Nowadays is all about them Hashtags.

Blogger bosscauser January 06, 2017 1:10 PM  

He managed to stay on the plantation when he says Breitbart is repellent...
Too many Jews?

#PresidentTrump

Blogger Nick S January 06, 2017 1:10 PM  

+1

Blogger James Dixon January 06, 2017 1:16 PM  

As far as I can tell, Glenn has always valued the truth higher than politics. This is demonstrated in his work on first the Snowden releases and now the DNC email releases. For that, I can admire him, even if we disagree about a lot of things.

Anonymous Norm Conquest January 06, 2017 1:17 PM  

It is very clear that there was a preference for Trump winning the election in the Kremlin. Its also clear that Russia did try to effect the election in multiple ways .. these are undisputed. But not really different than US involvement in other countries elections - maybe a little more tech savvy as the Russians have always been very smart. Did the Russians actually hack voting machines ? .. No.. they didn't need to. the election is close enough that just a little push was all that was needed.

Did HC lose due to this -- not completely, but it was a factor. The FBI letter 1 week before the election was a bigger factor .. but in the end, what happened is that the HC didn't care for the core -- they got away from the basics of labor and caring for the working man .. they took their support granted. All these are factors, and despite Trumpslide, the reality is a few million votes one way of the other and we would have HC...

The reality is.. Trump will be the pres for the next 4 years People got to accept that and move forward. Surely if we could survive 4 of Carter, 8 of GW we can survive Trump ... and you know what --- maybe we need a crazy at the top to shake thinks up.. don't let him have the codes to the ICBMs (get him one of those Staple easy buttons and put a label on it that says ICBMs) but if he keeps kicking these companies in the nuts to remind them of their obligations to the US, a get a few more factories back in the US, that's great.

Blogger Sam Lively January 06, 2017 1:19 PM  

Good for Greenwald for questioning the narrative but he's coming off a bit like David French here.

OpenID brefaucheux January 06, 2017 1:20 PM  

Welcome, Mr. Greenwald! We have cookies.

Anonymous BBGKB January 06, 2017 1:24 PM  

Trannies in little girls bathrooms had a bigger influence than the Russians under beds. Saudi Arabia paid for 20% of Crooked Eye Clintons campaign, yet you don't hear any crying about that they gave more money to her campaign than TRUMP did to his own.

Howard Dean.."I think it would be really interesting to find out whether The Intercept is receiving money from Russia or Iran"

Dear Vladimir Putin can you please send some Russians for over my bed? Dear Donald TRUMP can you please send me to an On Point Tactical survivalist camp?

Welcome, Mr. Greenwald! We have cookies.

Better warn him about Kool Aid withdrawals

Anonymous JustAnotherPairOfEyes January 06, 2017 1:25 PM  

To completely enjoy this, you have to click on the link and listen to the interview.

And it's rather impressive that the MSM hasn't been able to talk much about how they tried to influence the election.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor January 06, 2017 1:25 PM  

Господин Гринвалд, добро пожаловать в королевскую красную конницу!

Blogger Scott Birch January 06, 2017 1:28 PM  

Greenwald isn't a hive-minder. He has his own convictions and stands by them. I admire that, even on the occasions where he is completely and horribly wrong.

Blogger Thucydides January 06, 2017 1:31 PM  

Kind of curious, though. If the Democrat party as an institution is on the point of collapse, what is going to rise to take its place? I'd put money on an openly Socialist party.

Those billionaire socialist donors and foundations will still want some political arm to force their views and schemes on us.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents January 06, 2017 1:31 PM  

Well, now Greenwald has a choice. He can either abase himself completely and re-educate himself in order to get back in the good graces of the libtards, or he can accept that he's not wanted by libtards any more. If he picks the second option he's become literally Hitler. But that's how it goes.

Blogger Salt January 06, 2017 1:37 PM  

but this is what the Democratic Party has become

And most non-leftists know it. The Russians certainly do. Can't you hear Putin laughing? Trump does. Hopefully the generals do too. I bet even Ben Shapiro knows it.

Anonymous BBGKB January 06, 2017 1:37 PM  

OT: 9 shot in secure area at FL airport https://www.yahoo.com/news/multiple-people-shot-fort-lauderdale-181820399.html

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor January 06, 2017 1:40 PM  

@18 Baggage claim where the shooting happened is outside the secure area. Don't you feel safer already? Yay diversity!

Blogger Salt January 06, 2017 1:41 PM  

@18

Clean up in the Blue Zone?

Blogger Nick S January 06, 2017 1:42 PM  

Did HC lose due to this -- not completely, but it was a factor.

No, it was not a factor. Suppose all the facts and assumptions about the Russian involvement remain the same, but the information contained in the emails was squeaky clean...would anyone even be talking about it? No.


Blogger Sam Lively January 06, 2017 1:45 PM  

@19 Baggage claim does fit the ISIS m.o. Low-security pool of random unarmed people standing around.

Blogger cavalier973 January 06, 2017 1:50 PM  

We saw it in 2002, when people who questioned the sufficiency of the evidence about Saddam’s WMDs were accused of being apologists for Saddam or agents of Iraq.

I seem to remember the 2nd Iraq War starting due to Sadaam being in material breach of a U.N. resolution requiring that he allow investigators to search for WMDs. They were searching because the government suspected he had WMDs, based on intelligence estimates, but wanted to verify. That Sadaam seemed to be playing games (such as making the inspectors wait in the band for hours before allowing them in certain places--or something like that) only made the government highly suspicious that he was hiding his WMDs.

Anonymous Nathan C January 06, 2017 1:50 PM  

Greenwald might share some ideological overlap with the SJW crowd, but he was one of the few members of the left who criticized Obama for the same failings he criticized Bush for. Which to me means he not just an anti-white tribalist saying whatever is politically expedient.

Blogger Patrick January 06, 2017 1:52 PM  

So what was this little push you say they did? I've seen no proof of anything.

Blogger Some Dude January 06, 2017 2:02 PM  

Poor Glenn. Along with Sailer and Cernovich among the best real journos in the country. To be a good journalist you have to operate outside Pravda now. One can be a good journalist and have left wing beliefs in my opinion. I have many so called left wing beliefs on various topics for example.

Anonymous Napoleon 12pdr January 06, 2017 2:04 PM  

Can we send him a Neo-KKK Welcome Package?

Blogger Some Dude January 06, 2017 2:08 PM  

The Dem party is more cucked than the repubs in case you guys haven't noticed. There is hardly anyone in the Dem party base that supports neverending war, mass surveillance, cia hegemony, Wall Street fluffing, arms deals and cutting social security...and yet the neocons have turned the Dems into trying to do those things.

Its quite laughable how partisans on both sides can't see the real distinction is between patriot and (((foreign government))) and not dem v repub. Zion uses both elites as it sees fit. The end result is always war and Wall Street supremacy with some white ethnic cleansing through open borders.

That's why bush can endorse Hilary, and I presume if Sanders had won, Clintons would have endorsed Bush.

BECAUSE BUSH CLINTON CAMERON MERKEL HOLLANDE CLEGG BLAIR SARKOZY JUNCKER ARE THE SAME FUCKING PARTY.

THE CUCKOLD PARTY!!!

Cuck Schumer is a neocon republican if you look at his voting record. #Truefactdat.

Blogger James Dixon January 06, 2017 2:08 PM  

> If the Democrat party as an institution is on the point of collapse, what is going to rise to take its place? I'd put money on an openly Socialist party.

I'd guess the most likely bet is that they split in two, with the current leadership going full socialist and the more mainstream democrats (what few are left) trying to form another party. Of course this prognostication is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Anonymous To Mock a Killingbird January 06, 2017 2:09 PM  

@8.

"Its also clear that Russia did try to effect the election in multiple ways .. these are undisputed."

Evidence, please. What ways and what was the desired outcome. Were these actions unique? Were other state actors involved in similar efforts? Did they only intend to affect the Presidential election or also the "down ballot" races as well.

Repeating an assertion does not make in "undisputed". Substantiating it with compelling evidence and a reasonable interpretation of same makes it undisputed.

It is my personal feeling that if there was a significant, unprecedented and EFFECTIVE effort at influencing the election (whatever the hell that means, significant numbers of leftists think vote TALLIES were changed by Russia, apparently by greater numbers than were affected by the repeat, dead and illegal votes that accrue to the left's benefit), there'd be NO public disclosure of the those activities, it would be an ultrasecret.

Blogger Sagramore January 06, 2017 2:09 PM  

It's okay Glenn, I haven't forgotten where I first heard of you.

Anonymous Just another commenter January 06, 2017 2:11 PM  

In other words, he so smart that after years and years of writing about politics and current events, he hasn't been paying attention and is only now, just barely, starting to get a faint glimmer about how one whole side of the political spectrum operates on a routine basis... I suppose it's better to wake up late then never in most cases, but to only gain awareness in time to get fed into the wood-chipper must really suck.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:12 PM  

This election was about the complete Whig like destruction of one or the other parties (with the transformation of the other).
The Democrats are beating a dead donkey.
I can see two veins which might arise, a Bernie Socialist party which is #Occupy minus the SJW convergence but is at least still nationalist (we want to help poor suffering Americans).
The second is some kind of Christian Labor party which goes for subsidiarity (read: small government, strange how liberals now want very limited executive power and checks and balances and are worried about the courts). That has a chance. There are conservative and libertarian elements that can be to Trump's nationalism what Cuckservative Inc. was to the elite globalist left. A truly loyal opposition.

What the Democrats are now doing rapidly is what Cuckservative, Inc. had been doing - purging the wrong-think people until it was so small as to be irrelevant.

The lefties have an easier time as don't even pretend to have an intellectual veneer, as the NYT and WaPo (We must Stop Trump!) have shown.

As many have pointed out, Greenwald is an honest lefty. He was more fair toward Ron Paul than Fox News.

I remember pointing out in a comment to his celebratory post at the intercept over the Gay Marriage decision that he would not be celebrating for long, but I didn't even see the existing rot in Donkeyland. Bernstein at Volokh explains

The same crowd that said "Let's go burn down Memories' Pizza" has now turned their ire toward Glenn Greenwald.

The other Glenn, of the Cheetos face, is trying to virtue signal and "come together" and talk to liberals. He hasn't realized yet it is war (check theblaze.com ranking). Greenwald is one of the few liberals that want to talk. Most want to virtue signal or point - shriek - purge.

Blogger Some Dude January 06, 2017 2:13 PM  

Apologies Senator (((Cuck Schumer))). How disrespectful of me. They are the chosen ones and their ancestors name rings throughout history.

Blogger Some Dude January 06, 2017 2:19 PM  

"Crooked Eye Clinton" Hahahahahaha. That's good.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:20 PM  

Maybe he can be a Green port (left) side Alt-Light.

Another point is he was able to see Breitbart's rise and the threat to his side when everyone was just pointing and shrieking and dismissing them as whatever insult in the basket of deplorables.

(I'm a deplorable. I deplore able-ism.)

Blogger synp January 06, 2017 2:21 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Oh, what a horrible smear for a journalist to endure: to be called a Trump supporter.

If those are the worst attacks of his career, he is going to need to toughen up, now that he has joined the Russian KKK.

The term you're looking for is agent provocateur for Nazi Russia

Blogger The Kurgan January 06, 2017 2:23 PM  

When Greenwald also achieves racist homophobia he'll have arrived.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:25 PM  


This, and not dancing for the media, is how people are converted. They speak what they know to be truth, and are attacked for it. That is why we need to resolutely stand by the truth in every dialectic encounter.


In Veritas Vincit

(please correct my Latin)

Blogger Cail Corishev January 06, 2017 2:25 PM  

He's wrong in saying the same thing happened regularly to liberals in the past. (Heck, the "far right" has never had the power to do it even if it wanted to.) No one who said "Bush lied, people died" was hounded out of polite society and fired from his job for it while his enemies openly wished him dead, or got anything like the kind of treatment Mr. Greenwald may now get from the SJWs. I'm sure he believes it's the same, because to liberals McCarthy is always lurking around the corner, but there's no comparison. Maybe he's about to learn that.

Blogger Ingot9455 January 06, 2017 2:25 PM  

@15 The Democrat party has been the Socialist party for a while now. They're just hiding under the previous name. Who is that that infiltrates institutions, skins them, wears their hide, and demands the respect of old again?

Blogger Ingot9455 January 06, 2017 2:29 PM  

On hacking:

Remember that all political organizations are infiltrated. The Democrats continually try to put low level workers into the Republican campaigns, and vice versa.

If there was anything prurient in the Republican emails it would have come out. It probably would have been leaked by the NSA/CIA. Fortunately for us all the Republican emails say is stuff like, "How can we get churchgoers to tithe their ten percent to us instead?"

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:30 PM  

@38 When Greenwald also achieves racist homophobia he'll have arrived.

That's why I'd like to see him an Milo go at a debate or even discussion for an hour or two.

Milo is a Gay Catholic Jew, and see how he was attacked.

Greenwald is a - Can you have a Misceganistic gay marriage? - well in a similar contradictory positions.

Come over to the dark side Glenn.

It would be interesting to see if the Intercept is being converged. If that ever happens Glenn is more likely to be writing for Breitbart than the dinosaur-in-tarpit media.

(Though I doubt there will be a second "Faggot Two" bus - Greenwald is a great intellect but not as fabulous).

Blogger VD January 06, 2017 2:31 PM  

That has a chance.

That's ridiculous. It has absolutely no chance. The Left is not even remotely interested in smaller government. Don't EVER believe their crocodile tears.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:33 PM  

@40 You get purged from your own side. Buchanan was written out by opposing the Iraq War. Sobran because he wasn't ultra-Zionist (aka anti-Semitic).

Anonymous Steve January 06, 2017 2:37 PM  

Interestingly (to me, anyway) the decline and fall of the Democratic Party precisely mirrors what's happened to the Labour Party in Britain.

Used to be the default party of the working class, but long ago stopped talking to normal people and disappeared up its own feminist, multiculturalist, politically correct metropolitan arsehole.

Their new constituency of welfare recipients, public sector employees, Moslems and SJW's doesn't represent a winning team at the national level.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:40 PM  

@44 - Agreed with "the left", but Catholic social teaching since Rerum Novarum which condemned socialism sought the dignity of labor, the worker, etc. So to clarify, the Leftists will be with the hard socialists, and their crocodile tears won't refill the swamp.

Other than Lech Walesa's Solidarinosc in Poland, I don't know what to point to as an example or find a label, though there is a strain of fairness for workers - the human dignity of labor - against plutocrats. It flickered for a moment between the origin of #Occupy and its convergence.

It will have to be relearned, reinvented, recreated, but tends to extend Trump's "forgotten Americans". I don't think it will displace Trump in already red areas, but is likely to decimate what is left (pun intended) of the democratic party where it is heavily surrounded by red areas.

That said I will also concede the point that that the left - when dealing politically - never wants smaller government.

Blogger The Rev January 06, 2017 2:42 PM  

We do all realize the Democratic party isn't going anywhere, right? Maximally, a new faction will seize control of the brand name. Minimally, they'll just field a candidate who isn't under active federal investigation next time.

There's just too much money in the brand name to give it up.

Blogger bobby January 06, 2017 2:45 PM  

" . . . Greenwald is an honest lefty . . . "

Oh, yeah, he's actually several honest lefties!

(Google "Greenwald sock puppet" if you don't remember the tale.)

Blogger tuberman January 06, 2017 2:49 PM  

#48 "We do all realize the Democratic party isn't going anywhere, right? Maximally, a new faction will seize control of the brand name. Minimally, they'll just field a candidate who isn't under active federal investigation next time.

There's just too much money in the brand name to give it up."

Yes, but the nature of convergence will keep them on their destructive track, and they cannot stop the more and more extreme Identity Politics and Victim Card playing that is their signature. It will continue and get only worse.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:49 PM  

Meanwhile, PZ has resurfaced
or washed up on the beach.

Anonymous Eduardo January 06, 2017 2:53 PM  

LOL oh my... really? Stop fascism? Is that the new Schtick?

Loved it, juuust love it.

So, should we let him death stranded? =_= or maybe play that new Kojima Game.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 2:59 PM  

The link (PZ) is to the list of supporters so they can verify the madman from Mankato is there, but if you read their manifesto ... Well, there are degrees of Trump Derangement Syndrome, and this probably requires hospitalization (or will if they try what they say they are going to do).

Blogger tuberman January 06, 2017 3:15 PM  

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Blogger tweell January 06, 2017 3:16 PM  

Alas, Greenwald is facing more enemies than even his loyal sockpuppets can withstand. Poor Glenn! Perhaps this will cause him to rethink some of his beliefs and assumptions. Perhaps.

Blogger Johnny January 06, 2017 3:20 PM  

We do all realize the Democratic party isn't going anywhere, right?

At the moment they continue to be messed up. But otherwise in the longer run? Well, no, I don't agree. If Trump crashes and burns all bets are off. And don't think it can't happen.

As for politics in general. In my lifetime I have seen far too many people get elected by promising handouts to think that the appeal is dead. No way. The best we can hope for is a realignment, which is what I anticipate.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 3:21 PM  

The problem with the Left is that it goes Stalin. The loyalty proven through virtue signalling must continually increase exponentially combined with a series of tattletales that will wrestle with their own to see who gets thrown under the bus (often both).

For all the angst in the different segments of the alt-right, it isn't even so bad.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 3:23 PM  

We do all realize the Democratic party isn't going anywhere, right?

Maybe Handbasket isn't public transport, but Hell is a destination.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 06, 2017 3:26 PM  

Sam Lively wrote:Good for Greenwald for questioning the narrative but he's coming off a bit like David French here.
Well, he is an enormous faggot.

cavalier973 wrote:I seem to remember the 2nd Iraq War starting due to Sadaam being in material breach of a U.N. resolution requiring that he allow investigators to search for WMDs.
Say, how was the Flav-R-Aid?
The 2nd Iraq war was started because the neo-cons were afraid Saddam's ascendancy as a power of moral influence in the mid-east threatened Israel, and the neo-cons told Bush that Saddam had put out a hit on his father.
The 1st Iraq war was purchased by the Kuwaiti royal family.

Anonymous Publilius Syrus January 06, 2017 3:29 PM  

@tz
In Veritate Vincemus.

Blogger tuberman January 06, 2017 3:30 PM  

#56
"At the moment they continue to be messed up. But otherwise in the longer run? Well, no, I don't agree. If Trump crashes and burns all bets are off. And don't think it can't happen.

As for politics in general. In my lifetime I have seen far too many people get elected by promising handouts to think that the appeal is dead. No way. The best we can hope for is a realignment, which is what I anticipate."

Hmm, concern noted. I'm not going to say you're a Cuck, but.....Okay, you are a Cuck. Why don't you wait for one or two of the "sell-outs" all the other Cucks are hoping for before pushing your wisdom.

Anonymous aegis-1080 January 06, 2017 3:30 PM  

The hard left is highly pissed that the centrist Dems and their "You young'uns don't appreciate how WE had to bend the knee to the Bankstas and Wall Street to spread poz *dries tears on bribe cash*" attitude just lost to Mecha-Hitler 2.0. Not to mention that said centrist Dems are retarded enough to accuse Putin dissidents of being Russian stooges or "useful idiots". So, they turn their guns against the only people on their side that have any idea of what the hell is going on, like Obama's "job growth" being all part-time shit jobs.

Anonymous Eduardo January 06, 2017 3:35 PM  

@tz

These people are completely insane. It is either to get everybody in fear to the point they will be so unstable they will accept these suckers as Saviors hence giving them unlimited power... or they are just so insane they make your neighbour and his anti-spy gadgets in the backyard, the weird sounds at night and his armoured plated humvee look normal.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 06, 2017 3:38 PM  

No, it was not a factor. Suppose all the facts and assumptions about the Russian involvement remain the same, but the information contained in the emails was squeaky clean...would anyone even be talking about it? No.

Exactly. Stripped of all the obfuscating verbiage, the claim, simply stated, is that Russia tried to influence the US election by releasing proof of the DNC's perfidy. Those nasty Russkies revealed to the American people that Hillary Clinton and the DNC are corrupt, liars.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 06, 2017 3:44 PM  

@Eduardo,
The hard left, in this country anyway, is in a permanent state of self-induced group hysteria. They are so certain not only of their own rightness and virtue, but of the OBVIOUSNESS of their correctness, that only truly evil people could ever disagree. And since people who disagree just won the election, that election MUST be illegitimate. And since the elected government is by definition EVIL, they must have only evil schemes of slavery, exploitation and death for them and theirs. That's what they would do in the same circumstance, after all, though they would never admit that.
It's just like every hoplophobe (person with an irrational fear of guns) I have ever known has been a woman with suppressed rage issues. They know that they would have to struggle mightily not to wind up killing people, and they assume everyone else is the same.

Blogger Ron Winkleheimer January 06, 2017 3:48 PM  

The problem with the Left is that it goes Stalin. The loyalty proven through virtue signalling must continually increase exponentially

Cue story that ends with "comrade, never be the first person to stop clapping."

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 3:50 PM  

I think the left's current problem is their Russin' to judgment.

Blogger James Dixon January 06, 2017 3:51 PM  

> We do all realize the Democratic party isn't going anywhere, right? Maximally, a new faction will seize control of the brand name.

The new faction will be the faction that is currently in control, purged of any remaining moderates and whites. The question is what will happen to those purged. Will they form a new party, become libertarians, take over the Greens? They may join with the never Trumps in forming a new party or taking over another one. A few of the more centrist ones may join with Trump, but they will be few in number.

Blogger tuberman January 06, 2017 4:05 PM  

#68
Whatever, the Dims are very divided and as it becomes formal divisions they will only sometimes work together.
Weakness.

Blogger tuberman January 06, 2017 4:12 PM  

I am a strong Trump supporter, and I think he's sincere, and will try hard to deliver on his important promises.

Yet beyond that: In the longest run though, because the Left, the Globalists, and the Neocons have become so insanely destructive with their various maniac extremes, even Trump does not matter. The Left cannot go back, and they cannot seize Stalist power, as it's too late. The Left in all it's aspects, are in a death spiral, and we just need to help that spiral whenever and wherever we can.

Anonymous Eduardo January 06, 2017 4:13 PM  

@Snidely

Well Fear is a huge factor when it comes to rights. I know I felt like that back in my more leftard years. But still, it is so surreal to believe that Trump will destroy the world and America. That being said, my parents would be your typical white Democrat anyways :shrugs: Guess it just happens.

It's just funny, that they seem incapable of thinking outside the box, back in the day I thought all right-wing people were total idiots but the more I listened the more I could understand WHY they were "idiots" and then I became an idiot too and realised that I was just too exposed to Left-Wing stuff. These people have to be beyond believe when it comes to their political philosophy exposure. I blame schools...

Well if anything these people will finally create the Left-Wing version of Alex Jones, now THAT would be really funny.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 4:20 PM  

@60 much thanks. Dominus Vobiscum. (I need to attend the latin mass more often).

@63 - @Eduardo - yes. Quite. I know Scalzi is insisting on broadcasting his pathetic condition, but PZ Meyers has been sort of quiet until this, so for the first great meltdown of 2016, I'd go PZ over Scalzi.

Blogger tuberman January 06, 2017 4:30 PM  

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Blogger The Rev January 06, 2017 4:31 PM  

@58

Granted, Hell is their general destination. But I don't see the bankrollers rolling over yet.

Blogger modsquad January 06, 2017 4:41 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger modsquad January 06, 2017 4:42 PM  

Norm Conquest wrote:Its also clear that Russia did try to effect the election in multiple ways .. these are undisputed.

I dispute that. No one has shown any evidence of any kind.

Blogger Karl January 06, 2017 5:10 PM  

Freddie DeBoer is writing about this today. Poor Marxist wants to have an intellectual debate and gets hit with a clue-bat on twitter that journalism is about signalling now.


"So, let’s review. I wrote a post pointing out that professional politics writers and journalists are subject to social capture – the ideas that are permissible in our political writing are severely constrained because politics writers have direct social and professional incentives not to criticize each other in anything but anodyne and bloodless ways. I also said, as I have many times, that people who deviate from these rules are socially and professional punished. Using social media and IRL gossip, they designate anyone who criticizes the herd to be an outcast, and they enforce that outcast status with insults and by preventing those cast out from professional opportunity. That’s a series of claims I’ve made about the world. You can take it or leave it. By all means, disagree. But it’s a good-faith attempt to describe a real problem I really perceive.

David Klion decided to respond to all of this by… doing exactly what I was saying happens all the time in the piece. And others joined in."

Blogger Lovekraft January 06, 2017 5:25 PM  

The disdain for the alt-right is seething from this guy. Whoever is associating him with the alt-right: we don't want him either.

Anonymous kfg January 06, 2017 5:26 PM  

@51: "Meanwhile, PZ has resurfaced"

He hasn't even been inaugurated yet. Isn't it a bit early to be campaigning so hard for his second term?

Blogger Cail Corishev January 06, 2017 5:35 PM  

We do all realize the Democratic party isn't going anywhere, right? Maximally, a new faction will seize control of the brand name.

Since the new divide is nationalist/globalist, it makes sense that the globalists -- who had been keeping a foot in each party -- will finish their complete takeover of the Democrats, and the (((neocons))) and free-traders will join them. But first they'll have to wrestle it away from the SJWs, and it looked awfully converged this past year.

I think they can do that, because ultimately the globalists have far more money and power. The SJWs have been their tool, and a tool can be discarded. But by doing so, they'll be damaging a tool that's been very useful to them.

Blogger Elizabeth January 06, 2017 5:42 PM  

Steve wrote:Interestingly (to me, anyway) the decline and fall of the Democratic Party precisely mirrors what's happened to the Labour Party in Britain.

Used to be the default party of the working class, but long ago stopped talking to normal people and disappeared up its own feminist, multiculturalist, politically correct metropolitan arsehole.

Their new constituency of welfare recipients, public sector employees, Moslems and SJW's doesn't represent a winning team at the national level.


Up until the 1970s (?), the Democratic Party as a whole was more socially conservative than the Republican Party, due to southern whites and Roman Catholics. More economically liberal, but more socially conservative.

Blogger Lovekraft January 06, 2017 5:44 PM  

If the left collapses, there will be no alt-right. It would become whatever the conditions compel it to be, over time.

The alt-right has lost the courts and the media and are being pushed, subtly, into the 'arena'. If people like Greenwald get out before he becomes engulfed and looks to the alt-right, he would see a deeper kinship, based on survival instinct.

Anonymous RA January 06, 2017 5:57 PM  

@80, I've been pointing that out to all who will hear it: it ain't about the left vs the right these days, it's about the nationalists vs the globalists. One can find nationalists in both parties as easily as one can find globalists in both parties. In that context, it's not difficult to understand the appeal that Sanders had before the DNC cut his legs from under him.

But now both parties are being realigned as we speak. Of course, that rejiggering isn't happening without a lot of kicking and screaming ...

A liberal friend of mine has been a Greenwald fan for years so of course he was a Bernie Bro and was quite angry to find out how Hillary and the DNC cut him out. He still couldn't vote for Trump though, that was a stretch too far.

anyway, fun stuff, get out the popcorn.

Blogger tz January 06, 2017 6:06 PM  

@81 the copied context and post is what I was trying to get at - what the Democrats were.

Anonymous Henry Havelock January 06, 2017 6:15 PM  

@81

The Labour Party also used to be like this. Their founder Keir Hardie didn't want any Lithuanians coming to Britain because he said they carried the Black Plague.

The recently departed Bob Crow was the last of the traditional union barons in the UK. I think he's quite an instructive politician to study, especially how he was able to turn the Rail Maritime & Transport Workers' Union into a serious player with a 100% hostile media and a declining union movement everywhere else. He was fiercely anti immigration and anti EU and set up "No to EU" as a single-issue political party that campaigned to leave from the left. There's actually a unit fighting alongside the YPG against ISIS named after him, the 'Bob Crow Brigade'.

As the SJWs and globalists eat the traditional left there are a lot of allies we can find among the disillusioned working class. That's clearly what happened with Trump and Brexit. I don't see the process slowing down any time soon.

Blogger Eric Steiger January 06, 2017 7:43 PM  

Sweet sweet liberal panic tears! Yum.

Blogger Eric Steiger January 06, 2017 7:47 PM  

Scratch that, SJW panic tears. If the Dem party was still run by genuine liberals, the U.S. would be in much better shape than it is.

Blogger Earl January 06, 2017 7:52 PM  

I'm so glad Russia hacked the election. Only 2 months ago I was planning on moving there.

Anonymous Robert January 06, 2017 8:49 PM  

And of course, the alt-right is exactly the same, and self consciously models itself on leftist tactics after having concluded that they work.

This post is just another tactic on the model of the left - attack your opponents for doing the exact same thing you do, attack them first if possible, and harder.

We're not blind, Vox. I've been reading you for some time, and you're not even fooling your most devoted supporters.

It's just tactics, tactics, tactics, whatever it takes to win, no values, just power.

Vox day may support different positions, but the way he goes about it just as the left does - quite calculatedly, as a result of reflection, as what needed to gain power.

The problem is factionalism - every and any faction in a struggle for power will eventually converge on tactics, and learn from each other the most effective tactics, which are usually the sleaziest and most dishonest ones.

The alt-right offers just more of the same, and Vox day cannot be trusted as any kind of leader, as he craves power more than principle.

The only "out" for an intelligent and sane person is to not play the game, and let the factions destroy each other.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 06, 2017 9:12 PM  

Robert wrote:The alt-right offers just more of the same, and Vox day cannot be trusted as any kind of leader, as he craves power more than principle.


What is the value of the Fermi constant in your universe?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 06, 2017 9:13 PM  

Robert wrote:The only "out" for an intelligent and sane person is to not play the game, and let the factions destroy each other.

So, the only "out" for an intelligent and sane person is to not play the game, but rather to submit to his better and hope for something better than slavery and death?

Good to know.

Blogger VD January 06, 2017 9:22 PM  

We're not blind, Vox. I've been reading you for some time, and you're not even fooling your most devoted supporters. It's just tactics, tactics, tactics, whatever it takes to win, no values, just power.

How can I be fooling anyone when I am openly advocating what you say about adopting successful left-wing tactics?

But you are lying. If I had no values and was only interested in power, you wouldn't be alive. FFS, I don't openly discuss strategy with people on the Internet. I only discuss their tactics, or obvious ones, because the other side already knows them.

Blogger VD January 06, 2017 9:22 PM  

We're not blind, Vox. I've been reading you for some time, and you're not even fooling your most devoted supporters. It's just tactics, tactics, tactics, whatever it takes to win, no values, just power.

How can I be fooling anyone when I am openly advocating what you say about adopting successful left-wing tactics?

But you are lying. If I had no values and was only interested in power, you wouldn't be alive. FFS, I don't openly discuss strategy with people on the Internet. I only discuss their tactics, or obvious ones, because the other side already knows them.

Blogger Cail Corishev January 06, 2017 9:28 PM  

Why do people like Robert bother to come here and lie, and so ineptly, when it's so easily spotted?

Blogger Bob Loblaw January 06, 2017 10:10 PM  

Since the new divide is nationalist/globalist, it makes sense that the globalists -- who had been keeping a foot in each party -- will finish their complete takeover of the Democrats, and the (((neocons))) and free-traders will join them. But first they'll have to wrestle it away from the SJWs, and it looked awfully converged this past year.

That's a pretty large realignment, and ejecting the SJWs will be a bloody battle of attrition.

Not that I'm complaining.

Anonymous Rocklea January 06, 2017 10:43 PM  

Three SJWs discussing the Greenwald
SJW one: cisgendered white male
SJW two: xir
SJW three: nondescript woman of unknown ethnic origin and it would be xenophobic to ask

One: Greenwald
Three: I know
Two: Terrible
One: He almost makes the Nazis seem hu..
Two: Don't say it.
One: But his readers...
Three: Must be made aware.
One: He does seem to like diversity though.
Two: Don't be ridiculous. What Greenwald said about Hillary is inexcusable.
In unison: Misogyny!
One: He's written articles favourable to Putin, he's lionising the fascists
Two: I think it's obvious what's going on here.
In unison: The Russians!
One: I'm getting another soy latte, does any...
Two and Three sharp indrawn gasp
Three blurts out: That's culturally inappropriate!
Two quickly chimes in with derision: Almond for me.

One wanders off to get the coffee feeling confused and finding difficult to think.

Two thinks to xirself: One isn't thinking very clearly, and soy.. He will have to be watched.. after all, white and cisgendered? I wonder where coffee comes from....

Three thinks: Two's hair is always so perfect, obviously a wig, ooh look at the time, I have to get back to the clinic and empower more women.

Blogger Patrick Kyle January 07, 2017 12:10 AM  

BBGKB@ 11 I am interested in where to find the stats concerning Saudi Arabia donating to Clinton's campaign. Where can I find that info? I quoted that stat to someone and it stopped them in their tracks. I want to be able to back it up

Anonymous Robert January 07, 2017 12:32 AM  

Oh, I'm sure if you ever came to power you'd kill me, and people like me - people who see through you, and are a threat to your power.

Because, Vox, you are not honest about what you are doing. You are hoping to fool people.

If you were honest, you'd say: listen, everyone, don't take anything I say seriously. I'm just trying to gain fame and power, to fill the empty hole inside me. You see, I can't feel pleasure and happiness, and consequently am full of hatred and contempt for mankind. The only thing that dulls my daily anhedonia is trying to fool you idiots. But I don't have any stable values or principles - don't expect any consistency of values from me. What I attack the Left for doing today, I myself will do tomorrow, because basically I stand for nothing, except myself, and power. It's all games and tactics, that's all, folks.

Now that would be not trying to fool anyone, Vox! I'd even respect you, if you said that.

But you never will, because the nature of your malady is that you doomed to to be unable to have even a moment of self-honesty if you wish to dull the angedonia you feel daily.

And what I am saying is - you only fool idiots, and no one who cares about alt-right values would consider you a fit leader.





Blogger Francis Parker Yockey January 07, 2017 12:32 AM  

Not bad, for a leftist MOT.

Also, looks like Dean learned his lesson from that time the MSM targeted him with the scream meme. Support the narrative.

Blogger tublecane January 07, 2017 12:58 AM  

@98-"Anhedonia?" Can't you just say unhappiness, or something? What is this need to pathologize disagreements?

Blogger tublecane January 07, 2017 1:05 AM  

@7-He may value truth more than politics, but neither of your examples demonstrates that. Because Greenwald's politics, or the politics he cares about the most, is opposing the International War Party. Which is multipartisan, but in his mind at least more neoconservative than leftist.

Snowden hurting Obama and the DNC leaks hurting Hillary doesn't mean much to a committed anti-war leftist, because they're both warmongers. His ideal politics I imagine would be that of much the same ruling elite the Western world slaves under now, minus perpetual war for perpetual peace. Which I can't keep in my head even as a crude caricature, but which many sincerely believe in.

Blogger weka January 07, 2017 1:45 AM  

@98. Do not try to go around Malan's Triangle with your projections. Some of us know what you are doing, and the consequences of such clinically.

Blogger bruce January 07, 2017 1:55 AM  

Hillary isn't a quitter, the Clintons have a long history of breaking disloyal media, she still has a half-billion slush fundation, and now 'she is being pressured to run for NY mayor'. Greenwald has about enough clout that breaking him would send a useful signal to the rest of media. Paul Krugman is right to be running scared.

Anonymous TheBoom January 07, 2017 2:12 AM  

Glenn is an interesting example of what happens now on the left if you actually value truth. I don't agree with most of Greenwald's opinions because we have different values but he isn't a whore who sells himself out at the first opportunity. He tries to stick to his core values. Bad, bad man in the NWO.

Blogger dott January 07, 2017 2:29 AM  

This "Russia Did It" crock helps keep them from having to talk about that FACT.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash January 07, 2017 2:33 AM  

If you were honest, you'd say: listen, everyone, don't take anything I say seriously. I'm just trying to gain fame and power, to fill the empty hole inside me. You see, I can't feel pleasure and happiness, and consequently am full of hatred and contempt for mankind. The only thing that dulls my daily anhedonia is trying to fool you idiots. But I don't have any stable values or principles - don't expect any consistency of values from me.

And if you were honest, you'd say: listen, everyone, don't take anything I say seriously. I'm just trying to tear down somebody better, smarter and more successful than I, to fill the empty hole inside me. You see, I can't feel pleasure and happiness, and consequently am full of hatred and contempt for mankind. The only thing that dulls my daily anhedonia is trying to fool you idiots. But I don't have any stable values or principles - don't expect any consistency of values from me.

Anonymous Discard January 07, 2017 3:33 AM  

103. Bruce: Hilary may not be a quitter, but she'll never be President and nobody's going to be putting any more bribes into her foundation. All she ever had to offer was the prospect of using the power of that office to reward whoever paid her, and the threat of using that power to harm her enemies. Now she's just an old unlikeable loser. She can't break anybody. If she tries to crack the whip, the MSM can turn and chew her up, as the corrupt bitch who stole the nomination from Bernie.

Blogger bosscauser January 07, 2017 5:18 AM  

Look how many they found! Same with Russian hackers. When the left finally turns on the real culprit, her Majesty, it's popcorn time!

#PresidentTrump

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Anonymous JAG January 07, 2017 9:31 AM  

tz wrote:

As many have pointed out, Greenwald is an honest lefty.



This is an oxymoron. There is no such thing as "an honest lefty", because anyone still choosing to be a leftist is a lying, corrupt piece of shit, especially if they choose to stay despite knowing what that faction is all about.

The left wing is the left hand path because they use lies and evil to achieve power. It is how their black magick (for lack of better terms) has worked for centuries.

Blogger wreckage January 07, 2017 9:58 AM  

"The problem is factionalism - every and any faction in a struggle for power will eventually converge on tactics, and learn from each other the most effective tactics, which are usually the sleaziest and most dishonest ones."

Incorrect. The problem is vicious, vindictive, and foolish policies that are destroying ordinary people en masse, and destroying entire nations over time. Beside either of those your whining about playing nice is irrelevant, self-serving bullshit. But it actually has to stand beside both.

Blogger Happy LP9 January 08, 2017 3:18 AM  

Wow, just wow, but altrighty then! It's beautiful for of all people whom are not combative in their responses, of all writers, Greenwald, good he was given a wake up call via the 2bd SJW law.

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