ALL BLOG POSTS AND COMMENTS COPYRIGHT (C) 2003-2017 VOX DAY. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. REPRODUCTION WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION IS EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED.

Friday, March 10, 2017

Catholics against the Alt-Right

The Catholic opposition to the Alt-Right is every bit as feckless and dishonest as one would tend to expect from a fully converged institution:
Christopher Hale, executive director of Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, argued that along with denouncing the extremism and bigotry central to white nationalism and the alt-right there should also be an effort to engage with people drawn to this movement. "We need to understand better as Catholics how did Steve Bannon and the alt-right come to be?" he said.

But keynote speaker Michael Sean Winters, a fellow at Catholic University's Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies, highlighted the challenges of that approach. "The main difficulty in engaging the alt-right as if it were just another political movement is found precisely in its anti-democratic stance," said Winters, also a columnist for the National Catholic Reporter. "Normally, when we as Catholics engage those with whom we disagree, both sides accept democratic norms to shape that engagement. The alt-right derides democracy and openly states its desire to undermine democracy." Winters added:

Engage, but do so warily, and only when repeatedly noting the fact that the positions the alt-right espouses are not just wrong, but contemptuous of the means by which a liberal democracy sorts out the complexities of public policy, means that we value and celebrate, and which we accord to these provocateurs even if they wish not to accord them to anyone else. Winters pointed to the church's intellectual and moral traditions as resources to contest the resurgence of white nationalism. "It is often joked that Catholic social doctrine is the ‘best kept secret’ in the Catholic church," he said. "Let it be secret no more. The most sophisticated response to both these alt-right haters, and to the ever-present difficulties of democracy, is found in that doctrine. I often say and shall say again: There is no problem facing the political life of this country that is not leavened by an encounter with Catholic social doctrine."

There is no panacea to eradicate the diseases of white nationalism and Islamophobia. The church's manifold capacities—theological, pastoral and prophetic—will be required at different places and times. Catholics don't all need to speak with the same voice or use the same tone. But the message should be unambiguous and urgent. The alt-right movement is built on an edifice of racism, social sin, and exclusion that must never be tolerated.
The idea that Catholics are great defenders of democracy and the will of the people is a lie worthy of Goebbels. It is a big lie; not only is it historically false, but it is categorically and observably false. Just yesterday, Mr. Bergoglio was reported to have come out against populism, which is nothing more than "the will of the people", which is a truer form of democracy than the sham "democratic norms" that proscribe the will of an unelected, anti-democratic elite using ancient rituals and rhetoric as cover.

Note the appeal to "Catholic social doctrine", which has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity or the Bible.

We are, of course, contemptuous of them, as we are contemptuous of all liars. If the Catholic Church sets itself against the truth, it will be destroyed for its faithlessness. Now, granted, neither these wormtongues nor the current Pope speak legitimately for all Catholics, they are merely converged pseudo-priests attempting to lead the faithful astray.

They will not engage with us, even warily, because they know we will expose their falsehoods and false teachings. "Social sin" is no more sin than "social justice" is justice. We don't ask these wormtongues to tolerate us, we merely observe that they have no place in the Christian civilization they are attempting to destroy.

Labels: ,

310 Comments:

1 – 200 of 310 Newer› Newest»
Anonymous Broken Arrow March 10, 2017 11:04 AM  

The seed planted in Vatican 2 continues to bloom to its full glory in the Roman Catholic Church.

Blogger James McDonald March 10, 2017 11:06 AM  

Sede Vacante

Anonymous damntull March 10, 2017 11:10 AM  

If the Catholic Church is destroyed, the Christian faith is false.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky March 10, 2017 11:11 AM  

The actual Catholic civic doctrine, as laid out in the _Rerum novarum_ in the 19th century, is quite good. This is the champion document of 'subsidarity', which is in stark opposition to the 20th century movement towards centralization of state power. The trouble is that Catholic leadership today doesn't heed it.

Pope Francis lied to gain power. He is and always was a Liberation Theologian. This is a heresy, as the great anti-communist Pope John Paul II was at pains to point out. It is nothing more than the attempt to hijack the Gospel in the service of Marx.

He and his minions in Rome are *very much* engaged in leading our flock astray.

Anonymous Dan March 10, 2017 11:11 AM  

"Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good" isn't even a Catholic organization. It is an astroturf operation created by Democrat operatives, including, I believe, Clinton campaign chief Podesta.

Anonymous ADTA March 10, 2017 11:11 AM  

CINOs. These folks are modernists and not Catholic, especially Bergoglio.

Blogger VD March 10, 2017 11:12 AM  

If the Catholic Church is destroyed, the Christian faith is false.

That's ridiculous. And we're not going down that well-trodden path. Knock it off. The Roman Catholic Church has seen entire centuries of evil, dreadful leadership. It will purge itself and survive, eventually.

Anonymous fop March 10, 2017 11:13 AM  

Any Christian who drops a dollar into an RCC basket is complicit.

God have mercy on you.

Anonymous XVI March 10, 2017 11:14 AM  

et ego dico tibi quia tu es Petrus et super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam et portae inferi non praevalebunt adversum eam. et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum et quodcumque ligaveris super terram erit ligatum in caelis et quodcumque solveris super terram erit solutum in caelis.

Blogger Johnny March 10, 2017 11:14 AM  

The current Pope strikes me as a bit of a fool. He is full of well meaning aspirations that come up one after another, but has no program for implementation. The latest zinger is to be anti populist even as is method of implementation is to convince the public. But then even as the authoritarian structure has broken down, Catholic Church remains authoritarian on a theoretical level.

The really far out zinger is to support the incursion of Islam. This if successful will eliminate the Papacy itself, along with the faith given time. So, if this is wise, why not speed things up and have the laity convert to Islam. Dare we say more confused thinking?

Blogger Gapeseed March 10, 2017 11:15 AM  

Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good is a Soros front.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair March 10, 2017 11:15 AM  

@2. The chair isn't empty. I hate to break it Barnhardt et. al. but Francis is the Pope. He's the one we as Catholics deserve.

I could only get through a quarter of the article before closing it in disgust. The nativist bigotry against my religion was one thing. The anti-Muslim sentiment is, oh Idk, because they want to forcibly convert the entire world to be part of Dar-al-Islam!!!!

Furthermore, has the author and persons quoted forgotten about Lepanto, Tours, Vienna, the sacking of Constantinople, the desacration of St Peter's Cathedral, etc?

Catholic University of America like Georgetown like Notre Dame is fully converged and Catholic in name only. You can find more actual Catholics at Texas A&M than you can ND.

Lest the author forget, that wonderful (/sarcasm) document set known as Vatican II does allow for limiting of immigration if local culture may be destroyed due to continued immigration. Let's see what folks in Dallas, Barstow, Brownsville, St. Paul etc. have to say.

Blogger bearspaw March 10, 2017 11:16 AM  

That is "Catholic Social Doctrine" seated over there, next to the elephant in the room.

Blogger #7139 March 10, 2017 11:16 AM  

It depends on the type of populism. European populism is bad you see, but South American populism is good. Pope Francis said as much in an interview with El Pais.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2017/01/21/inenglish/1485026427_223988.html

Blogger praetorian March 10, 2017 11:17 AM  

The church is worth fighting for.

The left knows this.

Granting all the criticisms of her, the church is worth fighting for.

Blogger #7139 March 10, 2017 11:19 AM  

It should be kept in mind that source of the article is Commonweal, which is about as far left as you can get in the Catholic Church.

Anonymous VFM#1819 March 10, 2017 11:19 AM  

I believe what Dan said is correct. The Democratic party has more than one such organization and they are used specifically to influence the Catholic chuch, with new accusations that the Obama administration is the cause of Benedict XVI "resignation" and that they heavily influenced the selection of the current pope.

Anonymous The_P6 March 10, 2017 11:22 AM  

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2017/03/schism-catholic-church.html

Interesting take on the situation in Catholic Church. In short: Catholic Church now has two main groups in the clergy. First group sees the Church just as another man-made humanitarian organization and the second group sees the Church as an actual Church.

Blogger c0pperheaded March 10, 2017 11:22 AM  

Every Sunday at Mass, I ask myself the same question: Do I leave the Church or fight? Can't make up my mind.

Blogger herfsi March 10, 2017 11:23 AM  

catholic social services has been littering the upper midwest with somali immigrants.

Anonymous VFM#1819 March 10, 2017 11:24 AM  

Here you go. Possible #Pizzagate ties incoming...

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/03/08/italian-archbishop-suggests-pope-benedict-xvi-resigned-obama-pressures/

Anonymous Dei March 10, 2017 11:24 AM  

The Church is neither conservative or liberal; it is the Church and it exists prior to modern terms as such and will continue well past the end of these terms. It would do you well Protestant brothers to remember that everything you have that is holy and right is a gift from the Church. There were but 12 standing in the beginning, and it is from that we sprang.

Anonymous james@wpc March 10, 2017 11:26 AM  

"Winters pointed to the church's intellectual and moral traditions as resources ...."
. . . and this coming from the world's largest pedophile ring! The shamelessness is stunning . . . and frankly, psychopathic.

But should I be surprised? Psychopathy and SJW's seem to be a perfect fit.

Anonymous Looking Glass March 10, 2017 11:26 AM  

Name looked familiar:

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/59026

Oh. He's in their group.

Anonymous Just another commenter March 10, 2017 11:27 AM  

We in the US can impeach a president to remove him; how do you dump a sitting pope? It would be awkward, having two living ex-popes and a live one, but I think it might need to happen. Trump might be up for it in 7.9 years :-)

Blogger allyn71 March 10, 2017 11:29 AM  

"The smoke of Satan has entered the sanctuary"

Anonymous Reenay March 10, 2017 11:29 AM  

Even as a Protestant, I would be willing to fight to retake the Catholic Church for genuine Catholics.

If anyone's going to fuck with the Catholics, it should be us Protestants, not dumbfuck satanic blood-ritual-doing liberals masquerading as Catholics.

When we're done retaking Rome (and Constantinople), the brawls in the streets over whether one should pray to saints can continue.

Blogger Michael Neal March 10, 2017 11:32 AM  

Same situation myself stay or leave? But wouldn't Christ want me to fight?

Anonymous Looking Glass March 10, 2017 11:32 AM  

@25 Well, the classic way is to have the sitting pope die of food poisoning. Literally.

@15 Considering history, you'll probably need to take a page out of Nero's playbook and use the heretics as street lamps.

Anonymous FP March 10, 2017 11:32 AM  

I made it to the second paragraph with the anti-democratic stance and burst out laughing.

Why yes Padre you're all about democracy and you haven't supporting bringing in illegals into CA and the Southwest for decades now.

Blogger Katechon March 10, 2017 11:34 AM  

(((Vatican 2.O)))

Anonymous veryfunnyminion March 10, 2017 11:35 AM  

"Normally, when we as Catholics engage those with whom we disagree, both sides accept democratic norms to shape that engagement."

Ah, so then my ballot for Pope was lost in the mail?

"democratic norms" come from which version of the Bible? I don't recall them from my catechism either.

Blogger Azimus March 10, 2017 11:36 AM  

I just re-read the 16 points and I have a question regarding the Alt Right.

Is the vision of the Alt Right to be an active and organized counter to the left's active and organized SJW's - that is, politically and physically active "shock troops" that represent the famous 3% of the population designated a combatant in the Revolutionary War - or is it meant to be a more comprehensive version of the tea-party, attaching the 16 points to a right-nationalist economic platform? Or to ask it more simply, to put on the mantle of Alt Right, do you need to be a "walker" or do you accept the "talker"?

Blogger Gapeseed March 10, 2017 11:37 AM  

Even as a Protestant, I would be willing to fight to retake the Catholic Church for genuine Catholics.

If anyone's going to fuck with the Catholics, it should be us Protestants, not dumbfuck satanic blood-ritual-doing liberals masquerading as Catholics.

When we're done retaking Rome (and Constantinople), the brawls in the streets over whether one should pray to saints can continue.


I like to hear such things, brother, and feel the same way about Protestants. On this First Friday of Lent, I raise a dram to you and your sentiments.

Blogger von Dotty March 10, 2017 11:37 AM  

The Catholic Church is a monarchy with an aristocracy. It is in no way democratic. The claims advanced by these jackasses are ridiculous, but you have to remember that there is a huge gulf between the clergy, the laity, and the people in the pews. I'm saying this as a Catholic. Many Catholics are extremely socially conservative, and many like me are Alt Right. There is a welling contempt for the Pope Formerly Known as Bergoglio, as he has totally perverted Catholic doctrine to fall in line with SJW bilge. Don't be surprised if you see the Catholic Church splinter in the next decade as traditional, European Catholics get fed up with Third World hordes and their clerical champions perverting things (and I chose that word intentionally).

Blogger ZhukovG March 10, 2017 11:38 AM  

@Azimus: IMO, Do what you can; soon enough, you will do what you must.

Blogger ZhukovG March 10, 2017 11:40 AM  

Our current Pope is a scandal. It is not even remotely debatable to say that he is more damaging to the Faith than the Renaissance Popes.

Blogger allyn71 March 10, 2017 11:41 AM  

Party like it's 1683

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAKYICdbwA4

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 11:42 AM  

The alt-right movement is built on an edifice of racism, social sin, and exclusion that must never be tolerated.

Strangely, none of those things, unlike sodomy, lying, or heresy, is a sin.

Just another commenter wrote:We in the US can impeach a president to remove him; how do you dump a sitting pope?
The usual method is poisoning.

Blogger Lazarus March 10, 2017 11:42 AM  

Muslim view of Jesus:

A prophet can be virgin-born, but not "Emmanuel—God with us." Muslims concur that Jesus was condemned to the cross, but they claim he was never crucified. The Qur'an asserts that "they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them" (Surah 4:155).Islam cannot conceive of either a prophet or a son who is executed as a criminal. If Jesus died on the cross, "enduring the shame," then from the Muslim perspective he utterly failed.

THAT is "authentic Islam" that the Pope finds praiseworthy.

Blogger allyn71 March 10, 2017 11:43 AM  

"Our current Pope is a scandal. It is not even remotely debatable to say that he is more damaging to the Faith than the Renaissance Popes."

+1

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 11:44 AM  

Yes, they're liars and apostates. Catholics, of all people, should be teaching about the dangers of democracy, not using it as a modernist tool to control the conversation. When they say "Catholic social doctrine," they mean "heretical nonsense we've written since Vatican II which utterly contradicts Catholic doctrine."

The current Pope strikes me as a bit of a fool.

He's not very smart, but he's not a well-meaning fool either. Don't fall for the Smilin' Frank act. He knows exactly what he's doing, and there's nothing well-meaning about it.

Blogger Some Dude March 10, 2017 11:45 AM  

Well, when he intervened in the election to say Trump was 'not christian' for saying open borders is bad, I realised something was amiss.

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2016/03/16/pope_appeals_to_leaders_to_open_borders_to_migrants/1215718

I think he's a true believer though. I don't think he's 'in on it' or part of the cabal at all. You can see it the way he pisses of the WSJ with his redistribution exhortations and his speeches about Wall Street greed.

Incidentally you can tell who's 'in on it' by identifying if he's social liberal/eco conservative + aggressive lebensraum expansion for Israel.

Blogger John March 10, 2017 11:45 AM  

@ Rubberducky

The follow-up encyclical to "Rerum Novarum", titled "Quadroissimo Anno" was essentially as good as it's predecessor. It's an excellent read and unfortunately the "Modern Church" is about as far from those two "official positions" on Catholic "social doctrine" as it can get. The latter of the two sparked G.K. Chesterton and Hillaire Belloc to devise the foundation for a different, "free market" system named "Distributivism", a concept that would be pleasantly functional and should be welcomed by righteous folks who understand that both "Big" and the sin of usury that makes that possible would no longer exist. All thing considered, the name they gave it was and is unfortunate, but I"ve met some women who were beautiful in both looks and character with some odd-sounding names. Look it up.

That said, the Church is nothing but a traitor to God and a traitor to its members, as are most Christian religions these days. "There is no truth in them" and damn near to a one they are all "on the take" from biggov.gov in one way or another. To hell with them all. Stick with the Word and then stick it to "them."

Blogger James Dixon March 10, 2017 11:48 AM  

> Interesting take on the situation in Catholic Church. In short: Catholic Church now has two main groups in the clergy. First group sees the Church just as another man-made humanitarian organization and the second group sees the Church as an actual Church.

That's the case everywhere. People who seek to do good works amongst men are always drawn to the Church (in the inclusive sense of the entire body of faithful people), and continually mistake its mission.

Anonymous dog bytes March 10, 2017 11:49 AM  

What Catholics believe:

Catechism of the Catholic Church 2265

"Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility."


St Thomas Aquinas, CONTRA GENTILES, BOOK ONE: GOD

Those who place their faith in this truth, however, “for which the human reason offers no experimental evidence,” do not believe foolishly, as though “following artificial fables” (2 Peter 2:16).

[the divine Wisdom] reveals its own presence, as well as the truth of its teaching and inspiration, by fitting arguments;

and in order to confirm those truths that exceed natural knowledge, it gives visible manifestation to works that surpass the ability of all nature.

Thus, there are the wonderful cures of illnesses, there is the raising of the dead, and the wonderful immutation in the heavenly bodies; and what is more wonderful, there is the inspiration given to human minds, so that simple and untutored persons, filled with the gift of the Holy Spirit, come to possess instantaneously the highest wisdom and the readiest eloquence. ...

When these arguments were examined, through the efficacy of the abovementioned proof, and not the violent assault of arms or the promise of pleasure, and (what is most wonderful of all) in the midst of the tyranny of the persecutors, an innumerable throng of people, both simple and most learned, flocked to the Christian faith.
...
This wonderful conversion of the world to the Christian faith is the clearest witness of the signs given in the past
...
On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, The point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise men, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning, Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Muhammad forced others to become his followers by the violence of his arms. Nor do divine pronouncements on the part of preceding prophets offer him any witness. On the contrary, he perverts almost all the testimonies of the Old and New Testaments by making them into fabrications of his own, as can be. seen by anyone who examines his law. It was, therefore, a shrewd decision on his part to forbid his followers to read the Old and New Testaments, lest these books convict him of falsity. It is thus clear that those who place any faith in his words believe foolishly.

Blogger Basil Makedon March 10, 2017 11:49 AM  

@40 This position has always puzzled me.

If only a "likeness" of Christ was crucified and if their Allah knows all, then this illusion -- really deception -- on the part of Allah in the Muslim view directly created the world's largest engine of shirk (the unforgivable sin in Islam).

How they can mentally square this circle is well beyond my ability to comprehend.

Blogger Some Dude March 10, 2017 11:50 AM  

http://cis.org/

These guys are John the Baptist in the wilderness. Great stuff from real patriots here.

Note their tagline to throw off 'rac-ism' concerns from our high IQ, low empathy media friends. Hahaha.

My hunch is that immigration, particularly of low empathy or latently sociopathic races of man has halved American living standards.

Blogger Student in Blue March 10, 2017 11:52 AM  

He's not very smart, but he's not a well-meaning fool either. Don't fall for the Smilin' Frank act. He knows exactly what he's doing, and there's nothing well-meaning about it.

“Let's dispel with this fiction that Pope Francis doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.”

Blogger Cecil Henry March 10, 2017 11:53 AM  

How does the alt-right come to be??

Well. White Genocide is a crime, not a 'policy option'.

Period.

http://www.eurocanadian.ca/2017/03/mass-immigration-from-non-european-countries-is-the-problem-not-multiculturalism.html


Which of these statements do you deny??

1.White people exist.
2. White people have the RIGHT to exist.
3. White people have the RIGHT to exist AS White people in White Communities and Nations.


"By "genocide" we mean the destruction of an ethnic group….

Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation.

It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves.

The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups…."

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 11:54 AM  

The #1 rule of the Novus Ordo: Anything written by a Pope before 1958 doesn't matter. Case in point:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Decree_against_Communism

I'd be willing to bet that this is also true of this " 'Catholic' social doctrine".

Blogger jdwalker March 10, 2017 11:55 AM  

@25 SSPX has a series of articles examining the current struggle within the Catholic Church against Pope Francis, heresy, and what the implications are: http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/is-pope-francis-heretical

The next in the series is meant to address your specific question I think. There have also been other news reports about more cardinals wanting Pope Francis to resign: http://www.christianpost.com/news/some-cardinals-want-pope-francis-to-step-down-176574/

The battle within the Church seems to be very active and increasing.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 11:55 AM  

Cail Corishev wrote:When they say "Catholic social doctrine," they mean "heretical nonsense we've written since Vatican II which utterly contradicts Catholic doctrine."
The sad part is that there is actually a Catholic Social Doctrine, but it has nothing to do with what they want to claim.

Blogger Student in Blue March 10, 2017 11:55 AM  

@19. c0pperheaded
Every Sunday at Mass, I ask myself the same question: Do I leave the Church or fight? Can't make up my mind.

The Church is always worth fighting for.

Purge the heretics and Deus Vult.

Blogger Melampus the Seer March 10, 2017 11:59 AM  

Clericalism is a scourge. The testimony of the saints is higher than any hierarch's.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 11:59 AM  

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Yes, even their Modernist Catechism written in 2005 states that nations are a good thing and says their first responsibility is to their own citizens. You won't see Pope Frankie quoting from that.

St Thomas Aquinas, CONTRA GENTILES, BOOK ONE: GOD

Uh oh. By quoting St. Thomas (or anyone prior to Vatican II), you've revealed yourself to be an intolerant Restorationist and probably a Pelagian. Frankie is disappoint.

Blogger praetorian March 10, 2017 12:00 PM  

Interesting take on the situation in Catholic Church. In short: Catholic Church now has two main groups in the clergy. First group sees the Church just as another man-made humanitarian organization and the second group sees the Church as an actual Church.

We have to beg some understanding from the rest of you: one of the virtues of the catholic church is its institutional unity and continuity. Protestants have no problem forming new sects, so ridiculous behavior by protestants can be easily dismissed: they aren't *my* kind of protestant. While this is certainly convenient, it also comes with a cost: the universalism of the church comes into question. But this is well trod ground and most people here can understand the trade offs involved in the two approaches.

However, I will say that the institutional unity and pan-europeanism of the catholic church puts it in a unique position to fight for the west. This is why (((some folks))) recognize it, with the right leadership, as a grave threat to globalism and fight it with a two pronged strategy: subverting it from within (Vatican 2, Wilhelm Reich) and assaulting it from without (Hollywood production codes, Hitlers Pope, etc.)

None of this forgives the church for any of its manifest failings, but it is worth fighting for. Any institution that produced a Pascal, a Chesterton and a Chartres is worth fighting for.

Anonymous Camilla Cameo March 10, 2017 12:01 PM  

The practice of teaching that democracy is the only morally acceptable form of government was anathematized as part of the condemnation of the heresy of Americanism in Testem Benevolentiae by Leo XIII, a really great pope.

I've heard a few sermons lately that make me want to shout, "It's not a Catholic teaching that countries aren't allowed to have and enforce immigration laws!"

One of the many horrible things about the modernist-sodomite-freemason infiltration of the Church, of which the Bergoglian (anti?)papacy may be the apotheosis, is how it drives honest Christians like Vox away from considering entering full Communion.

Blogger allyn71 March 10, 2017 12:02 PM  

Every Sunday at Mass, I ask myself the same question: Do I leave the Church or fight? Can't make up my mind.

Every good, conscious Catholic is facing that question. Similar to Vox's teachings in deal with SJW's. You can only run, resign, or fight.

If you run it will provide temporary relief at best. If you resign, they win, you lose, the end. That leaves fight if you care about the Church and want to see it restored.

I have wondered myself what I should do as the heresies continue to mount. For me and mine, we serve the Lord and I will continue to fight this modernist abomination till the end.

Anonymous fop March 10, 2017 12:04 PM  

it drives honest Christians like Vox away from considering entering full Communion.

Begone, blood sucking cannibal.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 12:04 PM  

The sad part is that there is actually a Catholic Social Doctrine, but it has nothing to do with what they want to claim.

True. What most people don't realize, including most Catholics, is that the Modernists haven't just skewed Church teaching to the left. In many cases, they've reversed it. What people today think of as Catholicism isn't a kinder, gentler version of what popes and saints taught for nineteen centuries; it's its opposite.

Blogger allyn71 March 10, 2017 12:06 PM  

However, I will say that the institutional unity and pan-europeanism of the catholic church puts it in a unique position to fight for the west. This is why (((some folks))) recognize it, with the right leadership, as a grave threat to globalism and fight it...

Evil knows what is a treat.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 10, 2017 12:06 PM  

I see they are going with "the Irish and Italians used to be persecuted so we have to defend Muslims" line of reasoning.

Mind you a lot that "persecution" had to do with a pronounced fondness for criminal activity and the immigrant community's willingness to protect the criminals.

But then how different are the poor, poor Muslims in that regard?

Anonymous fop March 10, 2017 12:07 PM  

Do I leave the Church or fight? Can't make up my mind.

Don't leave. Do starve the beast.

Blogger c0pperheaded March 10, 2017 12:08 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger dienw March 10, 2017 12:08 PM  

If the Catholic Church is destroyed, the Christian faith is false.

Horseshit.

Blogger Cataline Sergius March 10, 2017 12:09 PM  

Last year, when I asked some of the Catholics here if there was the possibility of a schism? I was assured that there was no such chance.

It's been a year, is this still the case?

Anonymous Nat March 10, 2017 12:09 PM  

@58 "One of the many horrible things about the modernist-sodomite-freemason infiltration of the Church, of which the Bergoglian (anti?)papacy may be the apotheosis, is how it drives honest Christians like Vox away from considering entering full Communion."

Honest Christians like VOX ?

Blogger praetorian March 10, 2017 12:10 PM  

OK, OK. Enough with the reasoning.

DEUS VULT, PURGE THE HERETICS.

Blogger c0pperheaded March 10, 2017 12:10 PM  

allyn71 March 10, 2017 12:02 PM
Every good, conscious Catholic is facing that question. Similar to Vox's teachings in deal with SJW's. You can only run, resign, or fight.

If you run it will provide temporary relief at best. If you resign, they win, you lose, the end. That leaves fight if you care about the Church and want to see it restored.

I have wondered myself what I should do as the heresies continue to mount. For me and mine, we serve the Lord and I will continue to fight this modernist abomination till the end.

Student in Blue March 10, 2017 11:55 AM
@19. c0pperheaded
Every Sunday at Mass, I ask myself the same question: Do I leave the Church or fight? Can't make up my mind.

The Church is always worth fighting for.

Purge the heretics and Deus Vult.
Every good, conscious Catholic is facing that question. Similar to Vox's teachings in deal with SJW's. You can only run, resign, or fight.

If you run it will provide temporary relief at best. If you resign, they win, you lose, the end. That leaves fight if you care about the Church and want to see it restored.

I have wondered myself what I should do as the heresies continue to mount. For me and mine, we serve the Lord and I will continue to fight this modernist abomination till the end.


You're both right. I'm fightin.

Anonymous damntull March 10, 2017 12:12 PM  

Sorry for the gratuitous trolling, Vox. I was just funnin'.

Anonymous Dei March 10, 2017 12:13 PM  

@67 "Last year, when I asked some of the Catholics here if there was the possibility of a schism? I was assured that there was no such chance. It's been a year, is this still the case?"

2000 + years of standing up as the Church of Jesus; against barbarians, invaders, false popes, kings, emperors and dictators --- you think they will fall now ?

Anonymous Roundtine March 10, 2017 12:14 PM  

This is shit-tier argumentation. They have a case against White Nationalism to the extent it is a racial belief system, but they can say nothing against nationalism itself when it is about love of the nation, not hatred of the other. The Church defended monarchy, it was one reason why America had so much anti-Catholic sentiment.

Islamophobia! GTFO. #DeusVult

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair March 10, 2017 12:15 PM  

@19. We fight. Lest your forget Christ's promise to Peter? As for myself, every NEW thing I learn that I was never taught in my parochial grade school or Catholic HS makes me smile, learning more about the faith, and infuriates me as they deliberately withheld this from us.

For those in the Latin rite, remember there are twenty-two sui iuris Eastern rite churches in full Communion with the Holy See. Having attended Maronite and Byzantine equivalents of Mass, they're worth checking out.

Also to the brother Protestants that echo what Reenay said, damn straight!

Blogger dienw March 10, 2017 12:15 PM  

Protestant brothers to remember that everything you have that is holy and right is a gift from the Church.

I assume you mean the original Orthodox Church.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 12:15 PM  

Mind you a lot that "persecution" had to do with a pronounced fondness for criminal activity and the immigrant community's willingness to protect the criminals.

But then how different are the poor, poor Muslims in that regard?


@63 Cataline Sergius
Muslims are far worse, because of the intrinsic religious aspect. According to the Catholic religion, grooming teen girls as sex slaves is a mortal sin and you'd go to hell. According to Islam, it's war against the kaffirs and a good thing. Muslims won't have any incentive whatsoever to reform their behavior, especially if the host society keeps cucking up to them.

Blogger Ransom Smith March 10, 2017 12:16 PM  

Is there something about the Catholic church that makes it easy to be conquered and converged? Serious question.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 12:18 PM  

Is there something about the Catholic church that makes it easy to be conquered and converged? Serious question.

@77 Ransom Smith
Centralized authority. All the SJWs had to do was get enough of them as cardinals to elect one of their own as the "pope", and once that was done, the Catholic Church was converged. By contrast, other religions aren't centralized like that so convergence wouldn't work on them.

Blogger Beowulf the Geat March 10, 2017 12:19 PM  

Catholic social doctrine is very popular among those of my coreligionists fond of neglecting historical Church teaching. On the one hand, they seek to contextualise the proscriptions of Sacred Scripture and the Magesterium, on the other, they treat advocacy of social justice as holy writ.

A reminder of what the Church used to teach (from the Oath against Modernism): "The purpose of this is, then, not that dogma may be tailored according to what seems better and more suited to the culture of each age; rather, that the absolute and immutable truth preached by the apostles from the beginning may never be believed to be different, may never be understood in any other way."

Anonymous Iacobus March 10, 2017 12:19 PM  

lol "Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good." If that doesn't sound like an SJW-converged organization, nothing does.

Why doesn't Mr. Hale call his group the Ministry of Love? It'd be more apropos.

I feel like a stranger in a strange land these days amongst my so-called brethren. But that's OK. Christ told us we'd be hated for who we were. (And yes, I just accused my SJW "brethren" of not being actual Christians. They need goading. And maybe a good ol' ass-kicking.)

Blogger allyn71 March 10, 2017 12:20 PM  

Pope Benedict (then Cardinal Ratzinger) from a radio address in 1969

"...Let us go a step farther. From the crisis of today the Church of tomorrow will emerge — a Church that has lost much. She will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning. She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity... The Church will be a more spiritual Church, not presuming upon a political mandate, flirting as little with the Left as with the Right. It will be hard going for the Church, for the process of crystallization and clarification will cost her much valuable energy. It will make her poor and cause her to become the Church of the meek. The process will be all the more arduous, for sectarian narrow-mindedness as well as pompous self-will will have to be shed.....And so it seems certain to me that the Church is facing very hard times. The real crisis has scarcely begun. We will have to count on terrific upheavals. But I am equally certain about what will remain at the end: not the Church of the political cult, which is dead already, but the Church of faith. It may well no longer be the dominant social power to the extent that she was until recently; but it will enjoy a fresh blossoming and be seen as man’s home, where he will find life and hope beyond death."

Full address here:
Transcript 1969 Cardinal Ratzinger radio address

Blogger Red Pill Angel March 10, 2017 12:22 PM  

I still remember the first time I walked into an empty Catholic Church and got down on my knees. Only another convert can understand. Reading comments #5/#17, linking Podesta and Obama to the church, I nearly burst into tears. Awful. I read stuff here I >never< read elsewhere. My son has already gone over to Orthodoxy, and we've visited. So sad.

Anonymous Dei March 10, 2017 12:23 PM  

hoc primum intellegentes quod omnis prophetia scripturae propria interpretatione non fit

Blogger Aeroschmidt March 10, 2017 12:24 PM  

Church converged ceases to be Church.

Since the beginning Christ said that there would be false prophets. They are like the poor, they will always be around...

Anonymous Roundtine March 10, 2017 12:24 PM  

It's been a year, is this still the case?

Some Episcopal churches fly the homo flag, have sermons on global warming and tell you buying oil stocks is a sin. They won't exist in 50 years. Same with these opposition Catholics. Look at demographics, the Africans are far more conservative and they are growing. People joke about Islam taking over the West and how that is bad for the lefists, but that's happening right now in the Catholic church. Every time these German bishops try pushing for leniency on divorce, for example, the African bishops fight back. Traditional masses are also growing. The tide has already turned, in my opinion, but we're starting from a small position so it's hard to see.

Anonymous Iacobus March 10, 2017 12:26 PM  

Ransom Smith wrote:Is there something about the Catholic church that makes it easy to be conquered and converged? Serious question.

Part of the problem is that a lot in the Church have always focused on the material world rather than the spiritual world. They truly believe the world can be a fucking '70's Coke commercial if we really try.

At least that's what I got from the 25+ years I was active.

Blogger Lovekraft March 10, 2017 12:26 PM  

Another org trying to deflect attention away from itself. Ganging up on the marginalized is hardly Christian teaching.

Problem with the narrative is that, because critical theory and post-colonialism racist teaching, society is unable to appeal to us because it's too busy genuflecting to africans for some reason.

Anonymous p-dawg March 10, 2017 12:29 PM  

Do Catholics still worship on the day of the sun instead of the Sabbath? Do they still forbid their religious leaders to marry? Do they still call them "Father"? Do they still preach that intercession by special people is necessary for forgiveness of sin? Do they still celebrate pagan holidays instead of the feasts commanded by the Creator? Pretty sure being against the alt-right is the least of their anti-Christian problems.

Blogger praetorian March 10, 2017 12:29 PM  

My son has already gone over to Orthodoxy, and we've visited. So sad.

The church will breath with both lungs again.

Be glad, Christ is risen.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 12:29 PM  

Begone, blood sucking cannibal.

@60 fop
If it makes you feel any better, the Mass of Paul VI that was promulgated in 1969 is invalid, so in the vast majority of cases, Masses are now simple memorial meals like what you all have.

Anonymous vfm #0202 March 10, 2017 12:29 PM  

@XVI: my Latin, uninflected since 1960, got me to "shall not prevail". By that time I was shouting. Thanks for the hand-up. My personal take is "FIGHT".

Blogger Happy LP9 March 10, 2017 12:29 PM  

The reason we or others have a home in the alt right is that is provides safe haven for Christianity.

The Popes actions over the last 6 months is untenable to invective. The RCC is wrong to hate upon the alt right but The RCC remains on the wrong evil side of history.

Another issue bugged me this week regarding the womens march, irrelevant Soros up against Marine Le Pen is a joke, Le Pen is a star like Milo or a Katie Hopkins or even Ivan, their courage is beyond reproach.

Standing up for yourself is winning; against the RCC which is now compromised or ungodly yet I still attend daily Mass where our church is still bible pro man based meaning its masculine and Christ Based.

Blogger Eric Mueller March 10, 2017 12:31 PM  

I'm assuming their using terms "democracy" and "social doctrine" to pretty much mean communism, or it's current form today. Cultural Marxism.

What a joke. I came to the conclusion last year that I'm more catholic than the current Pope, and I'm not Catholic.

Blogger Happy LP9 March 10, 2017 12:31 PM  

91 We win or fight with the truth never with fists but with quiet objective or subjective truth on the dialectic we have no more time for rhetoric or feelings. In some strange way we are seeing the R/K selection also play out.

Anonymous Gen. Kong March 10, 2017 12:32 PM  

Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair wrote:@2.

The chair isn't empty. I hate to break it Barnhardt et. al. but Francis is the Pope. He's the one we as Catholics deserve.

I could only get through a quarter of the article before closing it in disgust. The nativist bigotry against my religion was one thing. The anti-Muslim sentiment is, oh Idk, because they want to forcibly convert the entire world to be part of Dar-al-Islam!!!!

Furthermore, has the author and persons quoted forgotten about Lepanto, Tours, Vienna, the sacking of Constantinople, the desacration of St Peter's Cathedral, etc?

Catholic University of America like Georgetown like Notre Dame is fully converged and Catholic in name only. You can find more actual Catholics at Texas A&M than you can ND.

Lest the author forget, that wonderful (/sarcasm) document set known as Vatican II does allow for limiting of immigration if local culture may be destroyed due to continued immigration. Let's see what folks in Dallas, Barstow, Brownsville, St. Paul etc. have to say.


Barnhardt does not say it's empty, but that Benedict is still the actual pope. As far as I know it's almost a unique position on the legitimacy of Soros' employee - he's an anti-pope. I think the actual sedevacantists have a stronger argument. Vatican II was a poison which has been endorsed by every pope - even JP II - since it was decreed by Paul VI. The document, the section named Nostra aetate in particular, is really apostasy. Can apostates (and anyone who refuses to completely repudiate Vataican II is an apostate) be a legitimate pope? If not, there has been nothing but anti-popes since John XXIII - including Benedict (Ratzinger), the one upon whom Barnhardt pins her argument.

Blogger Robert Divinity March 10, 2017 12:32 PM  

"Normally, when we as Catholics engage those with whom we disagree, both sides accept democratic norms to shape that engagement. The alt-right derides democracy and openly states its desire to undermine democracy."

What a fucking joke. Name a dictatorship that isn't communist or Muslim and the dominant religion likely is Catholicism. The Red Pope decried "populism," but he meant one he doesn't control.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 12:33 PM  

The chair isn't empty. I hate to break it Barnhardt et. al. but Francis is the Pope. He's the one we as Catholics deserve.

@12 Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Hair
That's a new one: "Francis is valid because most Catholics are rotten and deserve him".

No. Francis, and the five before him, are Fake Popes in the same way that ABCNNBCBS is Fake News. Everyone may think of them as the Pope, or as the News, but they aren't.

Blogger Bob Loblaw March 10, 2017 12:34 PM  

At its core, the CC is pretty reasonable. But there are a lot of organizations that claim some kind of association with the church that are just Marxist fronts. I don't know how much support they have among the clergy or parishioners. Some, at least.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 12:35 PM  

What a fucking joke. Name a dictatorship that isn't communist or Muslim and the dominant religion likely is Catholicism. The Red Pope decried "populism," but he meant one he doesn't control.

@96 Robert Divinity
Typically, such repressive Catholic right-wing dictatorships were that way because they were trying to keep communists and other such troublemaking SJWs under control. Funny how that works.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 10, 2017 12:35 PM  

@Cail Corishev
"By quoting St. Thomas (or anyone prior to Vatican II), you've revealed yourself to be an intolerant Restorationist and probably a Pelagian."

Next he's probably going to explain Just War doctrine, and disavow "democracy promotion" and the use of Salafist mercenaries for subversion. Terrible.

Blogger pyrrhus March 10, 2017 12:35 PM  

Catholic institutions have been seized by aliens...http://thedeclination.com/marxism-the-bug-wearing-an-edgar-suit/

Anonymous User March 10, 2017 12:36 PM  

Your points about the Church and democracy are obviously correct.

The Church itself was personally founded by God and is eternal and incorruptible. These are institutions that were started, decades ago or longer, and are frankly now Catholic only in name. Catholic Charities is the most egregious example I can think of, but most or maybe all of their universities are converged because they are universities, not because they are Catholic.

And then we have a mentally ill or honest to God demon-possessed anti-pope who is spreading lies and scandal as fast as his dark little heart can beat who only reigns because Rothschild bankers cut off the Vatican's access to the SWIFT system to force Benedict XVI to abdicate.

We can't just keep surrendering our institutions to these people. Technology institutions are so young that I think your strategy of building our own replacements is sound and I fully support it. However the larger older institutions are our vaults of culture and must be taken back. How long before these assholes start burning our ancient libraries?

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 12:37 PM  

Crap, I just realized this means someone has to start a Catholic Alt-Right group.

Barnhardt does not say it's empty, but that Benedict is still the actual pope.

That's a goofy theory with no basis in fact or logic, but one that many Catholics, especially the more traditional ones who thought Benedict was their champion, will have to travel through emotionally to get to the truth.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 12:37 PM  

@101 pyrrhus

Perfect. The Vatican II Novus Ordo monstrosity is the Catholic Church in the same way the Edgar suit is Edgar.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 12:38 PM  

Ransom Smith wrote:Is there something about the Catholic church that makes it easy to be conquered and converged? Serious question.
Unlikely.
There's always petty schisms. There's an "Inclusive Catholic" church near here, complete with women "priests", denial of personal sin and 40% more free Catholic Social Justice (tm). There's also a Polish "Old Catholic Church", which has descended into the same type of claptrap. But in terms of The Great Schism or the Reformation? No. Nowadays people just leave.
I'm sure if there was a crackdown, there would be a great deal of fuss, with all the usual suspects and the media going insane about a schism, but it would wind up being a few thousand people who are already outside the Church in any case.
And Bergoglio will die soon. He's an old man, and we've weathered worse. The bad part is that a lot of people will just walk away. No man cares to listen to lies, especially from his Church.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 12:38 PM  

We can't just keep surrendering our institutions to these people. Technology institutions are so young that I think your strategy of building our own replacements is sound and I fully support it. However the larger older institutions are our vaults of culture and must be taken back. How long before these assholes start burning our ancient libraries?

@102 User
The question may be boiled down to: is it possible to un-converge an SJW-converged institution?

Blogger Zach March 10, 2017 12:40 PM  

Michael Sean Winters. Ugh.

"Apostate and liar" is the kindest description available.

Blogger Zach March 10, 2017 12:41 PM  

@103

Crap, I just realized this means someone has to start a Catholic Alt-Right group.

Yeah, get busy on that. :)

Blogger Lovekraft March 10, 2017 12:43 PM  

@Azimus: "to put on the mantle of Alt Right, do you need to be a "walker" or do you accept the "talker"?"

Have your motivation come from a heathy spiritual and intellectual self-awareness, first of all.

Secondly, as in any struggle, things won't be cut and dry so being adaptable is very important. Move on numerous levels to keep a bigger picture.

Your abilities and proximity will also determine whether your will take a more active or passive role but even this isn't always clear.

For example, a son of a KIA soldier could end up working the speaking circuit, spreading red pills to thousands, instead of taking on antifa in the streets and coffeshops. On the flip, you could have college prep boys donning the Alt-Knight uniform.

Blogger jdwalker March 10, 2017 12:44 PM  

@105

If Bergoglio dies soon, isn't it likely that his successor will be in the same vein? My understanding was that the current pope picks the cardinals that will choose his successor, and that there has already been much gnashing of teeth about his rearranging and maybe expanding that class of cardinals with those that support him. Perhaps there are some Catholics that are more in the know about that though that can comment.

Blogger RC March 10, 2017 12:48 PM  

"You're both right. I'm fightin."

It's painful, but the Dread Ilk are both smart, trained, and well-led. Do it! Get on the church board. Work your way onto a college board of trustees. Volunteer to teach classes. Then bide your time, planting and watering seeds of truth, exposing their infantile rationalizations to the Light. It's God's work plus it can be high entertainment.

Blogger Esteban Serafini March 10, 2017 12:48 PM  

"Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good" is a front.
Wikileaks had a relevant leak about the Democratic Party trying to co opt the Church.
Our Mother is in danger, but we have had our share of nasty popes before; we will survive.
Some protestants and sedevacantist spergs are happy, but their churchs will tumble and fall well before the Mother do.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey March 10, 2017 12:49 PM  

@Gen. Kong

"Vatican II was a poison which has been endorsed by every pope - even JP II"

John Paul II was awarded the Charlemagne Prize in 2004.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 12:51 PM  

Is there something about the Catholic church that makes it easy to be conquered and converged?

On the contrary, the Catholic hierarchy held out longer against Modernism than most churches. All Catholics prayed for the conversion of the "faithless Jews" until 1960. Even the Modernist Vatican still officially opposes artificial birth control, although nearly all priests and lay people ignore that. There still aren't women priests, and even Bergoglio won't say out loud that he wants them. There were attempts at revolution in the couple centuries before Vatican II, but they were rebuffed until then.

But VFM #7634 is right. While the fact that the Church is a monarchy means that a true pope could hold the standard of the Faith against many attacks, it also means that once they managed to put an impostor on the throne, that defense (divinely supported, according to Catholic teaching) was gone, and things went bad very quickly.

Blogger praetorian March 10, 2017 12:53 PM  

OT: W E A P O N I Z E D A U T I S M

Anonymous Godfrey March 10, 2017 12:55 PM  

Most of the serious Roman Catholics I know voted for Trump. Trump has a lot of support among Roman Catholics. He's probably more popular among Roman Catholics than the current Pope.

Anonymous W. Lindsay Wheeler March 10, 2017 12:55 PM  

Vox is right. The Catholic Church has NEVER pandered to the mob. The Catholic Church is with Monarchy.

Look, all the governments of the West ARE Democratic---and they have ALL betrayed "The People". Nature did NOT fit the Vulgar class to rule. Protestantism is a heresy which destroyed Europe.

Democracy is the vehicle for Marxism!

"Democracy is the road to socialism." Karl Marx

"Democracy is indispensable to socialism." Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"Modern Socialism is inseperable from political democracy." Elements of Socialism, pg 337.

"The view that democracy and Socialism are inwardly related spread far and wide in the decades which preceded the Bolshevist revolution. Many came to believe that democracy and Socialism meant the same thing, and that democracy without Socialism or Socialism without democracy would not be possible." Socialism, Ludwig von Mises, pg 67.

"The Western democracy of today is the forerunner of Marxism which without it would not be thinkable." Adolf Hitler as a young man watching the Social Democracy marches in Vienna. (Mein Kampf, pg 78. Manheim translation, Mariner paperback)

Democracy really doesn't exist either. It is the worst form of Government. Socrates, Plato and Aristotle all hated democracy and they lived in the first one.

Blogger SemiSpook37 March 10, 2017 12:58 PM  

I'm with a lot of folks here in that it is beginning to become increasingly difficult for me to meet my weekly obligation at Mass when the Pontiff and many of his compatriots are outright ignoring the truth of the Faith. Things have gotten so bad that my wife, who I met right around the time I had discovered that the Modernist bastards had lied to me about their shenanigans back in the '60s, is seriously considering trying to find the nearest parish associated with the SSPX. And she isn't exactly the biggest fan of Tradition.

I've tried over the years to adhere to the traditional practices, not because it somehow makes me feel better about myself, but because it forces me to realize that there is more to this world than we've been told or realize. Denial, in terms of fasting and abstinence, is good. Daily prayer, when I actually remember to do it, is good. We are here for a limited time, and as much as we would like to accept the Modernist notion that we can do what we want, whenever we want, and assume that all is forgiven, that's not the case. Shit like what Jorge here has been pushing does not help the cause. At all.

@103

I'd be willing to help get something started up. I have thoughts, just not any real inclination due to some other things going on in my life, but I am obviously open to change.

@105

I'm reminded of a conversation I had about 10 years ago with my therapist at the time, who happened to also be a Catholic, though he had his first marriage annulled and remarried. He said something (and I'm paraphrasing) that has stuck with me to this day regarding the Faith:

"For the amount of poor leadership the Church has had in the past, [She] is surprisingly resilient."

Blogger Stg58/Animal Mother March 10, 2017 1:01 PM  

I like that

Blogger Robert Divinity March 10, 2017 1:01 PM  

@99. Blogger VFM #7634

Good point.

Anonymous Camilla Cameo March 10, 2017 1:03 PM  

@68

I meant our host and Supreme Dark Lord, Mr. Vox Day. Isn't he Christian? He's said he is on several occasions and made some very Christian statements.

Anonymous Gen. Kong March 10, 2017 1:04 PM  

Cail Corishev wrote:
Crap, I just realized this means someone has to start a Catholic Alt-Right group.

Barnhardt does not say it's empty, but that Benedict is still the actual pope.

That's a goofy theory with no basis in fact or logic, but one that many Catholics, especially the more traditional ones who thought Benedict was their champion, will have to travel through emotionally to get to the truth.


That might be true for some of those who follow Barnhardt's argument that Benedict is still pope, but Barnhardt herself declares him as the worst pope in history.. Her parting shot is: "Weak, supine, effeminate – he truly is the Pope for this age, the Pope we so richly deserve." That's hardly an endorsement as the great knight of the Tridentine Mass.

Anonymous Grayman March 10, 2017 1:06 PM  

Let me make sure I understand this:

White Nationalism – BAD
Any other race nationalism – GOOD

Blacks voting for Obama because he is "black" = Good
Women voting for Hillary because she is a woman = good
whites supporting whites = EVIL RACIST BAD THINK

I’m confused wouldn’t you want to put all of the evil racist white people in one place to separate them from the rest of polite society so that the evil whites don’t pollute your Marxist utopia? I guess I haven't mastered the whole cognitive dissonance thing yet :(

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 1:09 PM  

Crap, I just realized this means someone has to start a Catholic Alt-Right group.

@103 Cail Corishev
Might not be a bad idea. I'll help in any way I can.

If Bergoglio dies soon, isn't it likely that his successor will be in the same vein? My understanding was that the current pope picks the cardinals that will choose his successor, and that there has already been much gnashing of teeth about his rearranging and maybe expanding that class of cardinals with those that support him. Perhaps there are some Catholics that are more in the know about that though that can comment.

@110 jdwalker
Right. The College of Cardinals is packed floor-to-rafters with SJWs now, and Fake Pope Francis has only been making things worse. For example, in the U.S., he gave the progtard Fake Bishop Blase Cupich an escalator ride Obama-style to the Cardinalate, and also put him on the Committee for Bishops which decides who makes new bishops.

And that isn't even getting into the fact that the ordination and consecration rites were mutilated in 1969, so Catholic bishops and priests aren't able to validly celebrate a real Mass even if they wanted to, unless they got valid orders from one of the traditionalist SSPX/SSPV/CMRI bishops.

There's also the argument that the history of the Church parallels the history of Jesus Christ, and that the Church is buried and in the tomb right now. With Her Body being used as an Edgar-suit by the SJWs -- it's possible the Protestants weren't strictly wrong in calling Her the "Whore of Babylon", but were 400 years too early.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 1:10 PM  

@122 Gen. Kong

Barnhardt is wrong too. Francis wasn't the first Fake Pope. John XXIII was. This means that Benedict XVI is also a Fake Pope.

Anonymous SaltHarvest March 10, 2017 1:16 PM  

VFM #7634 wrote:We can't just keep surrendering our institutions to these people. Technology institutions are so young that I think your strategy of building our own replacements is sound and I fully support it. However the larger older institutions are our vaults of culture and must be taken back. How long before these assholes start burning our ancient libraries?

@102 User

The question may be boiled down to: is it possible to un-converge an SJW-converged institution?


Seems like an old and new wineskin question to me.

Anonymous Gen. Kong March 10, 2017 1:19 PM  

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:
@Gen. Kong

"Vatican II was a poison which has been endorsed by every pope - even JP II"

John Paul II was awarded the Charlemagne Prize in 2004.


Funny that. He also kissed the Koran, the scribbling of a pedophile spawn of Satan. In light of the recent Wikileaks revelations, I'm beginning to wonder who really orchestrated the assassination attempt on him. He also elevated the present Soros lackey to the office of Cardinal in 2001, despite his support for liberation theology (communism with a clerical collar), and coverup of priest-pedo clubs in Latin America. Never repudiated Vatican II either.

Anonymous Locke March 10, 2017 1:20 PM  

bible.org/seriespage/lesson-107-final-warning-beware-false-teachers-romans-1617-20

Pretty obvious these are amongst the false teachers that Jesus Christ and Paul warned us against. Slippery wormtongues.

Blogger frigger611 March 10, 2017 1:22 PM  

This is the kind of shit pushing me harder toward Sedevacantism.

It is not possible to reconcile the Divine report by Sister Lucia at Fatima who said that the Blessed Mother herself described communism as "Russia spreading her error" with Mr Bergoglio's insistence on reinfecting the world with that same pathogen.

FFS, even Putin doesn't want to do that.

The Catholic Church would be MUCH shinier if it were led by the mad monk of Kentucky, Cui Pertinebit. There's a man likely worthy of the Papacy of the Alt-Rt Catholic Church.

Anonymous Godfrey March 10, 2017 1:26 PM  

Has this Pope ever called Marxism evil?

Anonymous Gen. Kong March 10, 2017 1:30 PM  

@125.

I actually think you have the stronger argument (see my post above). I was just pointing out that Barnhardt's position is somewhat unique. Not sure why she's grasping at that straw. She seems to accept that Vatican II is the root problem (described by her as "an asteroid that hit the church") but apparently does not comprehend how and why it's a problem (apostasy). She's attacked sedevacantists in the past so I wonder if she's having a hard time walking it back all the way. It's worth noting she arrived at the anti-pope position only when Hi-Fellatin' Franny's antics got to the point where it was obvious he was openly Marxist, supportive of Islam, pedophila, etc. As I've asked before of those who continue to insist Franny's a legitimate pope: What's would it take? With the herd mentality, it appears that not even the erection of minarets at the corners of St. Peters, painted in the gay rainbow schema and the rape-sacrifice of a young child on the altar would be sufficient to persuade them of reality.

Blogger OneWingedShark March 10, 2017 1:31 PM  

praetorian wrote:The church is worth fighting for.

Granting all the criticisms of her, the church is worth fighting for.


You are quite correct; as Paul lays out (Eph. 5:25) -- "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her".

c0pperheaded wrote:Every Sunday at Mass, I ask myself the same question: Do I leave the Church or fight? Can't make up my mind.

Either way, pray. James says this: "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit."

Dei wrote:There were but 12 standing in the beginning, and it is from that we sprang.

That's wrong -- there was, and is, and always will be only One.
"Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad." (Matt. 26:31)

Reenay wrote:Even as a Protestant, I would be willing to fight to retake the Catholic Church for genuine Catholics.

If anyone's going to fuck with the Catholics, it should be us Protestants, not dumbfuck satanic blood-ritual-doing liberals masquerading as Catholics.

When we're done retaking Rome (and Constantinople), the brawls in the streets over whether one should pray to saints can continue.


LOL -- Quite true, and agreed.

Blogger Marie March 10, 2017 1:32 PM  

Catholics should care little about the form of government so long as it is a just government.

As an American, I like our democratic republic. As a Catholic, meh, it is a little thing.

But the historically ignorant are still historically ignorant even if they had a Catholic baptism.

Funny that this should come across Vox's radar. The leftist Catholics are going nuts because they suddenly realize they are losing control. They have ramped up the crazy to an extent I have never seen before. They are losing numbers, not gaining them. It is wonderful.

Anonymous WaterBoy March 10, 2017 1:43 PM  

p-dawg @88: "Do they still forbid their religious leaders to marry? "

Maybe not for much longer...

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 1:44 PM  

If Bergoglio dies soon, isn't it likely that his successor will be in the same vein?

Yes, though they would probably go with someone who doesn't wear his heresies on his sleeve quite so much as Bergoglio. But every man elected since Vatican II has preached the same Modernist doctrines, and the next one they elect will do so as well.

The danger of the brewing schism someone mentioned upthread is that it will be between the conservative Vatican II Modernists -- the ones like John Paul II and Benedict, who wanted to ease Catholics into the new religion -- and the liberal Vatican II Modernists like Bergoglio who want to stomp on the accelerator and get busy burning the Summa. It's the difference between simmering the frog or boiling it, but the frog is dead either way.

If that schism happens and the conservatives win, most people will assume that means a return to Catholic Tradition at the Vatican, the Modernists defeated. It won't. It'll just be a "one step back, two forward" moment in the Modernist advance.

It's a hell of a mess.

Anonymous W. Lindsay Wheeler March 10, 2017 1:45 PM  

Let me remind all and sundry here, we are in this predicament BECAUSE of the Jews and their crazy ideology of Jewish Messianism. The Kabbala is the carrier of this and many people read the Kabbala beginning in the Renaissance which fueled the Enlightenment! European Atheists joined with the Jews to preach tolerance! The Protestant movement was instigated by Jews to break up Catholicism. It was the Catholic Church that suppressed the Jews.

To tell me that the Protestants are the way to go is ludicrous! We are in this predicament because of Protestant Judaizing, European Atheists and the Jews. Catholics fought this for the longest time. It was the Protestants and Atheists who gave the Jews their liberty and now everything is compromised with Marxism!

The Church today has plenty of heretics. Remember folks, The Church is defined by the Truth, not by the Heretics within. There is NOTHING wrong with the Catholic Faith. The Church today is compromised with Marxists but it is only mirroring the society it finds itself in.

The Protestants are much worse off. What is reported at that Catholic conference is Catholic Leftists. They are heretics.

Blogger Elder Son March 10, 2017 1:45 PM  

For your consideration: Pope Francis - http://skywatchtv.com/?s=Pope+Francis (Scroll down)

Anonymous digger March 10, 2017 1:52 PM  

Should you stay and fight or go?

You would do well to heed the words of Christ on this... you can't put new wine in old wineskins.

The RCC is converged, but this isn't recent, if you look at history it goes back 100s of years, its simply that the corpse is starting to really stink now.

But if you must stay, then fight. Actually fight.

Who among you has the balls to fight? The European peasants of the radical reformation would stand up during mass and insist on speaking directly to the people. It worked, but they paid with their lives.

Are you willing to die to save the RCC? If not you're just virtue signaling.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 1:53 PM  

She's attacked sedevacantists in the past so I wonder if she's having a hard time walking it back all the way.

It's tough, so I don't give people a hard time over it. It took me a few years to face up to the facts, and that was after a few years of carefully not looking too closely at them. Thing is, when you decide to be a "traditional Catholic" and simply start attending a Latin Mass, you already set yourself apart in a pretty stark way. Family members think you're a crazy schismatic who has abandoned the faith. You get accused of thinking you're better than everyone else (when the truth is you go there because you know you're not, so you need it). So it's comforting to be able to look out further toward the horizon and see the various sedevacantist groups and say, "Well, at least I'm not that crazy."

When you start seriously considering sedevacantism, there's no one out beyond that. It's tough until you fix the flaw in your thinking: wherever the true Catholic faith is taught, that is the center. Bergoglio and his acolytes are the ones standing beyond the fringes.

Anonymous jOHN MOSBY March 10, 2017 1:53 PM  

Yeah, Luther sure loved him some Jews, Wheeler.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 1:55 PM  

She seems to accept that Vatican II is the root problem (described by her as "an asteroid that hit the church") but apparently does not comprehend how and why it's a problem (apostasy). She's attacked sedevacantists in the past so I wonder if she's having a hard time walking it back all the way.

@131 Gen. Kong
Here's it's crucial to define our terms.

It has become common to call all Catholics who say that John XXIII and his successors are Fake Popes "sedevacantists". However, that's not strictly correct.

There are in fact two opinions within the "last six Popes are Fake Popes" camp. First are sedevacantists, who say that there hasn't been a Pope since Pius XII died. Secondly, there are those who say that there may be but he's hidden and unable to execute his office out in the open. Those who hold to the latter opinion say that there have to be perpetual successors to St. Peter or apostolic succession would die. So they aren't actually "sedevacantist".

That said, those who VEHEMENTLY DENY that the last six popes are Fake Popes, and snidely ATTACK those who think so, are extremely common, and exactly parallel the "cuckservatives" that we've been talking about for the last couple of years, to a T.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 10, 2017 2:00 PM  

Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good,

Geeze. Not much originality in the astroturf naming business anymore. This is about one step away from something out of a mid 20th century satire, like "United Catholics Unified For Doing Good Things Together In Unity", which of course would be a fractured group where everyone is backstabbing everyone else, the leader is an atheist, etc.

The current crop of subversives doesn't seem to be as smart as the older ones were, those guys were better at making up the innocuous names. Of course, the older subversives didn't have pizza all over them, either.

Blogger Eric Mueller March 10, 2017 2:00 PM  

140 - Luther didn't want a split. He was a devout Catholic who wanted to reform the church, especially from the corrupt Medici pope and the selling of indulgences, which pissed him off.

The split happened around him, and he got caught up in the current. It's possible external influences (Jews), used the chaos to interject themselves. I haven't gotten that deep into the rabbit hole yet. But for Luther himself, he preached a sermon against the Jews just a few days before his death. He did not have respect for them.

Blogger Happy LP9 March 10, 2017 2:04 PM  

95, 131 Gen Kong, right on! Thank you for enlightening me.

Blogger Koanic March 10, 2017 2:04 PM  

So much of those purportedly "Christian" hold doctrines which are not GNON-compliant, much less in accord with the revelations of Jehovah and Jesus Christ, that it's almost more relevant to name oneself GNON-compliant than Christian, since the latter name is obscured by false associations.

GNON-compliant also has a deliciously Dissenter tone to it which defies Progressive orthodoxy.

Blogger Beau March 10, 2017 2:07 PM  

Yet amidst all this conflict in the organized bodies the field remains ripe to harvest. Broken men and women still push all their worldly belonging in shopping carts, children still need adult guidance, the sick need tending, prisoners need visiting, the lost need light, sinners need introductions to the Savior. Your act of kindness and prayer done today will not go unnoticed by heaven.

Blogger praetorian March 10, 2017 2:12 PM  

Amen.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents March 10, 2017 2:12 PM  

@136 Wheeler
Let me remind all and sundry here, we are in this predicament BECAUSE of the Jews and their crazy ideology of Jewish Messianism.

Usually I just ignore Wheelerisms, but this is special because of the deep error shown so clearly.

Wheeler, put all your "da JOOZ! da MASUNS!" and other childish hobby horses that you ride on away in your toy closet. Ok? This is about sin, and temptation, and sin, and Satan, and sin. Oh, and sin. Pride? Sin. Greed for money and power? Sin. Other sins too, sure.

Go and read Ecclesiastes. There is nothing new under the sun, and so there are no new heresies just old ones recycled with new labels. The world hates Christ, so it hates his followers. He told us this, do you trust His word or not? The world seeks to warp Truth. That's not new.

It's just another try by the world to use the Truth for worldly ends. That means it will fail. But it can do a lot of damage before then, so it is well worth fighting against. Also it is fun to see if Astroturf can be made to burn.

Blogger Beau March 10, 2017 2:14 PM  

et tibi dabo claves regni caelorum et quodcumque ligaveris super terram erit ligatum in caelis et quodcumque solveris super terram erit solutum in caelis.

If we learned how to employ the tools our Lord left us, our spiritual body would be far more healthy. But who has the faith?

Blogger Matamoros March 10, 2017 2:18 PM  

@75 I assume you mean the original Orthodox Church.

Ha, ha. Surely you joke.

No, the "one holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church" from which Orthodox left.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 March 10, 2017 2:18 PM  

Dei wrote:The Church is neither conservative or liberal; it is the Church and it exists prior to modern terms as such and will continue well past the end of these terms. It would do you well Protestant brothers to remember that everything you have that is holy and right is a gift from the Church. There were but 12 standing in the beginning, and it is from that we sprang.

Doesn't seem to stop its members from using the Church as a political tool though, does it?

Anonymous Grayman March 10, 2017 2:19 PM  

so WWIII is set to be a holy-race war between the various factions of the world. It will be interesting to see who allies with who. Do the alt-right western elements allie with the orthodox west (russia)?

Blogger Student in Blue March 10, 2017 2:19 PM  

@143. Eric Mueller
The split happened around him, and he got caught up in the current. It's possible external influences (Jews), used the chaos to interject themselves. I haven't gotten that deep into the rabbit hole yet.

This is a topic about Catholics so generally talk about specifics of Protestantism is off-topic. But I'd just like to leave a quick note that from what I read, it wound up being a case of Luther hoping and truly believing while he was young that if only Jews had the real Truth preached to them, surely they'd realize their errors and convert en masse to Christianity (roughly paraphrasing).

When he realized what a stiff-necked people they were, a great shock to all of us who have read the Old Testament, he got really pissed off, especially as the Jews at the time had been feeding him the standard lines that a lot of them use even today.

Blogger Matamoros March 10, 2017 2:21 PM  

@82 My son has already gone over to Orthodoxy, and we've visited.

There are 30+ rites within the Catholic Church. If the problems in the latin rite are too much for you try an Eastern rite such as the Ruthenian, etc.

They have not been changed as much as the latin rite, and are beautiful rites, wholly part of the Catholic Church.

Blogger Peter Parker March 10, 2017 2:27 PM  

Ok....just because this bizarre leftist SJW pseudo-pope and some pretend catbolic SJW groups are pushing leftist claptrap and pretending it is catholic doctrine does NOT mean that actual catholics believe in the left wing globalist bullshit. Talk to a Tridentine Catholic. We fully support what Trump is doing and completely reject what liberation theologist Francis is pushing. Kissling and her despicable "Catholics for Choice" is a prime example of pseudo-catholics perverting actual doctrine in service to leftist agitprop.

Anonymous basementhomebrewer March 10, 2017 2:45 PM  

Haven't there been several article in the press about the current Pope's fondness for pizza? Seems bizarre that it would make so much news if it was just normal pizza.

Blogger Shamgar March 10, 2017 2:52 PM  

Seek tradition. And then build on that. It is the only way out of the desert. Put your money where it will build up not tear down.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 10, 2017 2:52 PM  

95. Gen. Kong March 10, 2017 12:32 PM
the one upon whom Barnhardt pins her argument.



Barnhardt is trying, very hard, not to join the sedavacantist position.

i don't see how her position wrt Benedict's "retirement" doesn't apply though.

Benedict was clearly 'forced' into retirement and has clearly lied, numerous times, about the situation.

this renders his evacuation of the Papal Seat invalid *according to Church law*.

the question of whether Benedict himself ( or others prior ) were also invalid is a separate issue.



96. Robert Divinity March 10, 2017 12:32 PM
What a fucking joke.



it is a fucking joke, but not because of your considerations.

the Catholic Church has a doctrine of Papal Infallibility.

that's straight up tyranny of the kingly authority of the Pope ( the earthly representative of Christ the King, in Catholic estimation ), and is diametrically opposed to the concerns of "democracy". democratic concerns are only entertained to the extent that the Pope bothers to listen to them, and they end the very moment that he rules those "democratic concerns" to be heresies.

and that position is at the heart of Catholic doctrine. it's the whole reason for the Schism with the Orthodox, the Roman Pontiff demanded the submission of *all the other* Patriarchs.

and their answer was, "NO YUO!"

therefore, if you are now going to claim that 'democracy' is one of the highest ideals of the Church, the Roman bishop got himself democratically outvoted by the other Patriarchs more than a thousand years ago.

check and mate.

so any Catholic, from the lowliest lay person to the highest Pontiff, who asserts the primacy of "democracy" within Catholic theology is a bald faced, raging liar.

and Francis knows this full well.



105. Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 12:38 PM
And Bergoglio will die soon.



irrelevant.

the same Cardinals who elected Bergoglio are still there and will elect another pope of the same stripe.

the money lenders need to be driven out of the College.


Anonymous omar's running shoes March 10, 2017 2:58 PM  

Catholics? Aren't those the guys who institutionalized pederasty as a central canon of their outreach?

Yeah, not really interested in their opinion.

Blogger Bernard Brandt March 10, 2017 3:00 PM  

The problems with Roman Catholicism discussed here involve a failure of analysis and diagnosis of the ills of that Church.

To begin with, Eastern Orthodoxy holds that the treasury of Christian teaching is preserved in Holy Tradition. That tradition includes the Old Testament, what we call the Apocrypha, the writings of the Apostles (aka NT), the writings of the Church Fathers, and the first seven Ecumenical Councils of the early Church, and the synods of the Bishops.

Roman Catholicism differs from Orthodoxy in that it believes that the three founts of the Holy Spirit are Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium, or the teaching authority of that Church. For RCs, that teaching authority includes its many ecumenical councils, and the teachings of the Pope. Orthodox have problems with the teachings of later councils and of those Popes.

An endemic problem with the RC church has been its religious leaders have often been indistinguishable from political leaders, with all the corruption and injustice that that involves. This problem continues into the present.

A current, but largely unrecognized problem, within the RC Church, has been a battle for ecclesial and political power between two groups: the traditionalists, who believe in the inspiration by the Holy Spirit of Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium, and the modernists, who appear to believe in quite little, save perhaps in using the Church to maintain their own economic and political power.

It should not be surprising to anyone who knows Pournelle's Law that the modernists have largely taken control of the RC Church, that an estimated 50% of them are actively gay, and that from that population 5% of that clergy have molested mostly young boys.

While there is a Catholic Social Doctrine (or CSD) that has developed in the last two or so centuries, it is largely based on Scripture, Tradition, and Magisterium. As RC religious leaders are largely modernist, they claim that that CSD is whatever SJW claptrap they are presently espousing.

Unless and until these matters are recognized, and the laity remove gay modernist clergy from their Church, all this will continue. As most RC laity are in fact woefully ignorant of the teachings of their faith, such removal is unlikely to happen.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 3:03 PM  

Grayman wrote:so WWIII is set to be a holy-race war between the various factions of the world. It will be interesting to see who allies with who.
I'll take a stab at that;
Russia, Poland, rural France and the American South, midwest, and Inter-mountain West
VS
England, Ireland, urban France and Germany, both American coasts and Saudi.

Italy descends into a 4G war, but sorts out fairly soon, partitioning north/south because there are beautiful women to love and wine to drink.

France and America go full civil war. England and Ireland support the American lefties, possibly including troops. Poland, maybe Russia, and perhaps other Eastern European countries support the largely Christian and Libertarian/alt-Right middle of the country. Possible partition if there's no military resolution fairly quickly.

France goes full urban warfare, dirty war, intelligence war. Atrocities abound. Neither side will accept partition. Russia and Hungary come in on the Christian side, providing funds, munitions, intelligence, and covert troops. England and the US government will officially support the French state, and provide such support as they are able. Germany is officially neutral, but covertly provides support for the urban Lefty "legitimate" government.
Casualties and reprisals will be horrific. Such Moslems as don't leave immediately will be used as shock troops to destroy rebellious towns and departments. Genocide will not be off the table.

KSA provides funds as needed for the trans-nationalists.

Anonymous Credo in Unum Deum March 10, 2017 3:08 PM  

I've written off Pope Francis a long time ago. At best he is a very confused old man, and at worst, he is a demon-possessed individual.

With the corrupt Popes of the Renaissance, we at least got some magnificent works of art that uplift the soul.

I doubt anyone 500 years from now is going to listen to Marty Haugen ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar0BXa82F9M -- My apologies... My DEEPEST and SINCEREST Apologies to anyone who goes to that link...!!) the same way we listen to Palestrina today ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6xh5xLj-UI There, that'll make up for it a little!).

The Church, and Her Founder, Jesus Christ, is worth fighting for.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 3:10 PM  

bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) wrote:irrelevant.

the same Cardinals who elected Bergoglio are still there and will elect another pope of the same stripe.

the money lenders need to be driven out of the College.


You assume they are incapable of learning from their mistakes.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 10, 2017 3:17 PM  

163. Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 3:10 PM
You assume they are incapable of learning from their mistakes.



you assume they made a mistake.

query:
who forced Benedict to resign?

Anonymous Grayman March 10, 2017 3:18 PM  

Snidley,

interesting, what are your thoughts on the asian/indian players?

Blogger James Dixon March 10, 2017 3:23 PM  

> The question may be boiled down to: is it possible to un-converge an SJW-converged institution?

For us, probably not. But with the Church we don't have to. That's in the hands of a greater authority. All we have to do is what he tells us.

Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 3:24 PM  

You assume [the Cardinals] are incapable of learning from their mistakes.

They only see the election of Bergoglio as an error of flavor, not of kind. In other words, they don't like the way he's handling things, but they don't really have a problem with what he's doing. They can't object to his teachings, because they're based on Vatican II, which they all accept. He's the first "pope" to be fully formed by V2, and that's his guide, filtered through Liberation Theology.

Even his move to open up Holy Communion to adulterers and non-Catholics was presaged by smaller nods in that direction by Benedict and JPII. The cardinals wouldn't be objecting to it if he'd obfuscated it more so they could put a Catholic spin on it.

Anonymous Grayman March 10, 2017 3:26 PM  

Snidley,

The idea of Russia doing covert munitions drops to the south eastern US in support of "moderate rebels" as they rebel against atrocities of the formal government is F'ing hilarious given the US governments hypocrisy in Syria!

Anonymous Otto Maddock March 10, 2017 3:27 PM  

"Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good"

Are as Catholic as Catholics for Free Choice; Nuns on the bus; Jesuits and readers of Commonweal and America.

I have no pretenses about the Church, it's a hospital of the worst diseases and where the medical staff is just as afflicted with the same infirmities, some sleep on the job and others drink on the job. A few seems to have gotten their medical training at some "offshore" med school or just squeaked by on their licensing exams.

I do not however, have to be led in prayer by a woman on Sunday. or see that two dudes will be "married" next Saturday".

Now let's talk about Episcopalians, Lutherans, especially the ELCA variety, Methodists and the UCC.

Otherwise, this is just a repeat of Luther claiming humanity was thoroughly corrupt and then being indignant to find sin among the clergy.




Blogger Cail Corishev March 10, 2017 3:30 PM  

who forced Benedict to resign?

There's no reason to think anyone had to. Oh, he might have been urged to move along, but he was old when elected, and never expected to last that long anyway.

In his own words, Benedict is a man of Vatican II -- one of its creators, in fact. He resigned and made way for another man of Vatican II, though their manner and intellectual prowess may be much different. He says he's inspired by Francis and a faithful servant of the new "papa," and there's no reason not to believe him.

I say that as someone who once had a great deal of respect for Benedict, and was very thankful when he un-banned the Latin Mass. But the fact is you'd need a shoehorn to find space between him and Francis, doctrinally speaking.

Blogger SemiSpook37 March 10, 2017 3:31 PM  

@158

The thing about Papal Infallibility is that there are two views to the doctrine: the perceptive and the actual, and oddly enough it all depends on who your source is.

The actual, no nonsense doctrine is that ANY time the Pontiff declares a dogma to be "infallible", he must do so "ex cathedra", meaning he must be sitting in the Chair of St. Peter in the Basilica in the Vatican in order for the declaration to have any effect. Since the institution of this dogmatic doctrine at the First Vatican Council in 1870, there has only been one time that this has been used, that being the Declaration of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary in 1950.

In the article on Infogalactic, there are six other "ex cathedra" statements that are considered to be "infallible" listed, all between AD 449 and 1854. The first deals with the Divinity of Christ (as a rejection of the Arian Heresy), the two wills of Christ, a treatise on the Beatific Vision, two condemnations on Jansenism, and the dogma of the Immaculate Conception.

Note that there have been declarations from the various councils and synods over the centuries that have also been considered "infallible", and even in the gigantic mess that is Vatican II, it reaffirmed the dogma, as well.

The perceptive side to all of this is that everybody who is NOT Catholic assumes that whatever the Pope says is "infallible". That is not the case. The Pope is more than capable of giving his opinion on the issues of the day, but unless he's sitting in that cathedra in Rome, it doesn't mean anything, as much as he wants it do. Hell, John XXIII, the "darling" of the Spirit of Vatican II crowd, even said himself that he wasn't infallible. That's a huge admission for an allegedly fake Pontiff to make, even in such a turbulent time as he reigned.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 3:32 PM  

You assume they are incapable of learning from their mistakes.

@163 Snidely Whiplash
That's right, we assume that. Because they're militant SJWs. Expecting them to NOT be militant SJWs would be like expecting Zero not to appoint SJW justices. Because Cardinals are appointed by the Popes.

It's of course theoretically possible that at least a few of the Cardinals are orthodox Catholics who slipped through the cracks, but it's increasingly unlikely, and certainly not enough to swing an election and roll back Vatican II.

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit March 10, 2017 3:32 PM  

You might find this Lutheran satire video: The Two Faces of Rome amusing.

https://youtu.be/feHTWSl4GJI

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 3:33 PM  

The thing about Papal Infallibility is that there are two views to the doctrine: the perceptive and the actual, and oddly enough it all depends on who your source is.

@171 SemiSpook
One telling indication that Fake Pope Francis has no power of infallibility was his "canonizations" of Fake Pope John Paul II and Fake Pope John XXIII.

Anonymous John B. Wrong March 10, 2017 3:40 PM  

Let me remind all and sundry here, we are in this predicament BECAUSE of the Jews and their crazy ideology of Jewish Messianism (the RCC supports Zionism). The Kabbala is the carrier of this and many people read the Kabbala beginning in the Renaissance which fueled the Enlightenment! European Atheists joined with the Jews to preach tolerance! The Protestant movement was instigated by Jews to break up Catholicism (which is why Martin Luther wrote a book called The Jews and Their Lies.) It was the Catholic Church that suppressed the Jews (except now it loves the Jew and his works).

To tell me that the Protestants are the way to go is ludicrous! (Protestant pastors marry women they don't fuck little boys). We are in this predicament because of Protestant Judaizing, European Atheists and the Jews. (The Pope is a cuck but I blames Southern Baptists). Catholics fought this for the longest time. (Lol, except the RCC doesn't anymore). It was the Protestants and Atheists who gave the Jews their liberty and now everything is compromised with Marxism! (Except the Pope is a literal Marxist).

The Church today has plenty of heretics. Remember folks, The Church is defined by the Truth, not by the Heretics within. (Papism works dolls, look at Pope Cuck). There is NOTHING wrong with the Catholic Faith. (Except flooding white America with brown invaders.) The Church today is compromised with Marxists but it is only mirroring the society it finds itself in. (Lol, nice excuse, faggot!)

The Protestants are much worse off. (Lol) What is reported at that Catholic conference is Catholic Leftists. They are heretics. (Your Jewish Gay Pope is secretly Protestant?)

Anonymous Steve March 10, 2017 3:46 PM  

"It is often joked that Catholic social doctrine is the ‘best kept secret’ in the Catholic church," he said.

FUNNY JOKE

"Let it be secret no more. The most sophisticated response to both these alt-right haters, and to the ever-present difficulties of democracy, is found in that doctrine. I often say and shall say again: There is no problem facing the political life of this country that is not leavened by an encounter with Catholic social doctrine."

Fucksake. You can practically hear the bow tie in his words. What a Cuckolic.

And I'm pretty sure Catholic social teaching doesn't mean welcoming Moslem rapists into your neighbourhood.

Time for another Inquisition as well as a Crusade.

Anonymous Anonymous March 10, 2017 3:52 PM  

My name is ChronicSinner, and I did not mean to post "anonymously", but I do not know how to make a post bearing my name. Sorry.

This year marks the 100th anniversary of the Blessed Virgin Mother's appearances at Fatima.

She warned of a great chastisement for humanity from God unless people repented and ceased offending Him. She gave very concrete things that were required of Church leaders and of the laity in order to ward off this chastisement including the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart by the Holy Father and all the bishops in union with him in a public ceremony. This has not been done and until it is, there will be no peace within the Church or the world.

She warned of a great apostasy in the Church that would begin at the top and we are undoubtedly seeing that with Pope Francis and his enablers throughout the Church hierarchy in Rome and throughout the Catholic world including at the local diocesan level both with the clergy and the laity who try to square his heretical and blasphemous teachings with the perennial dogmatic/doctrinal moral teachings the Church has always espoused (particularly when it comes to Pope Bergoglio's attacks on the Sacraments of Marriage, Penance, and the Eucharist). Catholics for the Alliance for the Common Good is a good example of this, since they are about as Catholic as Martin Luther's 95 theses.

As a Catholic who struggles with what is going on in the Church, I take encouragement that the Blessed Mother at Fatima promised that in the end, Her Immaculate Heart and Her Son's Church would triumph...however there will be much to suffer. I try to stay as close to the Traditional Latin Mass as possible which is not easy, wear my brown scapular, pray my Rosary daily, live my station in life, go to Confession, and try not to worry to much about the scandal proceeding from the Pope's actions. I also voted and support Trump...although I have a problem with seeing him as a "God Emperor"...that sounds sort of blasphemous to me.

God bless you all and,

Pax Tecum

Blogger Pteronarcyd March 10, 2017 3:53 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 3:55 PM  

bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) wrote:who forced Benedict to resign?
The Bankers who cut off access to all Vatican and church accounts 2 days before he resigned. IOW, the CIA.

Grayman wrote:The idea of Russia doing covert munitions drops to the south eastern US in support of "moderate rebels" as they rebel against atrocities of the formal government is F'ing hilarious given the US governments hypocrisy in Syria!
I think it follows naturally once you start contemplating an actual shooting war. It's a winning strategy the US has used for at least 75 years to get what they want in the world.
I think the Asian powers will stay out of it, more out of fear than strategy. If you're India, do you really care who wins, as long as you come out ahead?
China might make a play for the West coast, but so long as California and New York are on the same side, that won't happen. If the Globalist side splits, then you can expect to see China and Japan/Korea weighing in very cautiously.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 3:56 PM  

If anyone's going to fuck with the Catholics, it should be us Protestants

@27 Reenay
Careful... there was a lot of that in my family tree...

Blogger The Social Pathologist March 10, 2017 3:59 PM  

It really depends by how you define the Alt-Right. Spencer and his ilk have been anti-Catholic for a long, long, time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_views_on_Catholicism

Blogger James Dixon March 10, 2017 4:01 PM  

> The actual, no nonsense doctrine is that ANY time the Pontiff declares a dogma to be "infallible", he must do so "ex cathedra", meaning he must be sitting in the Chair of St. Peter in the Basilica in the Vatican in order for the declaration to have any effect.

That limitation still presumes that a man has the authority to command God. No matter how special you make the conditions under which he can do so, that will still be the case.

Blogger Pteronarcyd March 10, 2017 4:09 PM  

"The idea that Catholics are great defenders of democracy and the will of the people is a lie worthy of Goebbels. It is a big lie; not only is it historically false, but it is categorically and observably false. Just yesterday, Mr. Bergoglio was reported to have come out against populism, which is nothing more than "the will of the people", which is a truer form of democracy than the sham "democratic norms" that proscribe the will of an unelected, anti-democratic elite using ancient rituals and rhetoric as cover."

While I subscribe to the idea that Catholicism is a shit-tier version of Christianity that is not ideally tailored to our society founded on English Protestant principles, this post fails to demonstrate the Goebbelian lie with any substance.

It seems few understand populism (so Levin-tier). It is NOT the will of the people. It is not a synonym for democracy. Populism is an uprising of the common people against a corrupt ruling class, which describes exactly what Trumpism is. Populism can be either Rightist, Centrist, or Leftist. Our job is to keep Trump on the Right.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 10, 2017 4:17 PM  

171. SemiSpook37 March 10, 2017 3:31 PM
The perceptive side to all of this is that everybody who is NOT Catholic assumes that whatever the Pope says is "infallible".



that's not my point and that's not what i said. i'm already well aware of all that.

my only point wrt this argument, is that the structure of the Catholic Church itself is monarchical and not "democratic" in any way.

and anyone, ESPECIALLY A POPE ( you know, the monarch himself ), who says otherwise is a bald faced liar.



178. Snidely Whiplash March 10, 2017 3:55 PM
The Bankers who cut off access to all Vatican and church accounts 2 days before he resigned. IOW, the CIA.


it's a Godly act for the Pontiff, for the representative of Christ on Earth, to bow before Bankers?

strange.

i thought i already pointed out that the moneylenders needed to be cleansed from the College.

What Would Christ Do if faced with that situation?

it seems as though a certain Jesus ought to be excommunicated for daring to whip moneylenders in the Temple ...

Anonymous digger March 10, 2017 4:21 PM  

The RCC is run by a bunch of men who swore off women some 1700 years ago and we're supposed to be (a) shocked they diddle boys and (b) believe the current predicament is a recent phenomenon?

The devil hasn't changed is MO much over the years. Do you think maybe there is a reason Paul required Bishops to have a wife and that maybe this problem goes a tad deeper than at first appearance?

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 4:22 PM  

It really depends by how you define the Alt-Right. Spencer and his ilk have been anti-Catholic for a long, long, time.

There is the Alt-West, and then there are the Alt-Gamma Nazi LARPers. Also, in many cases, when they're "anti-Catholic" they're critizing various Marxoid crap put out by the Novus Ordo Fake Church.

That limitation still presumes that a man has the authority to command God.

@181 James Dixon
It's not "commanding" God. It's interpreting facts. I don't see how you can possibly take an infallible declaration to be "commanding" God.

Unless you believe the human race to be God, of course, as many people do nowadays.

Blogger SemiSpook37 March 10, 2017 4:23 PM  

@183

On that point we can actually agree. The Modernist idiots that expect (EXPECT) the Church to be a "democracy" fail to realize this simple fact. Apologies for missing that point. Mind's been in at least 3 different directions for much of the day.

Anonymous Anonymous March 10, 2017 4:26 PM  

Can someone please tell me how to post here without doing it anonymously? Thanks, ChronicSinner.

Blogger James Dixon March 10, 2017 4:27 PM  

> It's not "commanding" God. It's interpreting facts. I don't see how you can possibly take an infallible declaration to be "commanding" God.

By claiming that the Pope can make statements that are infallible, you are claiming that he can command God to correct his inevitable errors.

Blogger The Social Pathologist March 10, 2017 4:28 PM  

There is the Alt-West, and then there are the Alt-Gamma Nazi LARPers

Spencer has effectively--with the help of the media--taken control of the brand. For better or worse, in the minds of the normies the LARPers are the Alt-Right. Furthermore, the hate of the baby Jesus is strong on their blogs. Their conception of the West does not include Christianity.

Blogger SemiSpook37 March 10, 2017 4:28 PM  

@181 @185

When I think of a "declaration", my thought process tells me that the Pontiff, through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, makes his pronouncement based off of said inspiration. In the case of the Marian declarations, it makes perfect sense. Now if you apply the dogma of the Triune God (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) to this, it's not man commanding God, it's God showing man, through the intercession of the Pontiff, what a particular Truth is.

And with that, I'ma go home. Ember Friday of Lent is starting to get to me. Need food.

Blogger VFM #7634 March 10, 2017 4:29 PM  

By claiming that the Pope can make statements that are infallible, you are claiming that he can command God to correct his inevitable errors.

That would require a Pope to declare infallibly something that contradicts something else a Pope declared infallibly. Which has never happened in history, until Fake Pope XXIII got in.

Blogger Beau March 10, 2017 4:34 PM  

That limitation still presumes that a man has the authority to command God.

The crux of the matter is the authority of the body of Christ.

In the case of Catholic convergence, how is this authority conserved, let alone wielded? Before this question can be answered, more fundamentally, what is the correct healthy operation(s) of the authority delegated by Christ? What if the successors of the apostles are faithless, does that denude the nature of Christ's warrant to believers? How does the body throw off infection?

Blogger Matamoros March 10, 2017 4:34 PM  

@140 Yeah, Luther sure loved him some Jews, Wheeler.

Yes, he did indeed. Luther was known as a "half Jew" because of his judaizing.

Read Rabbi Louis Newman's "Jewish Influence In Christian Reform Movements" for the straight story.

Blogger bob kek mando ( Death To The Boor-geois, Keks To The Lol-etariat ) March 10, 2017 4:35 PM  

187. James Dixon March 10, 2017 4:27 PM
By claiming that the Pope can make statements that are infallible, you are claiming that he can command God to correct his inevitable errors.



you've inverted the Catholic Doctrine on this.

Catholic Doctrine is that God *will not permit* a Pope to make an ex Cathedra pronouncement which is in doctrinal error.

so a Pope can be in gross error throughout all the rest of his Papacy ( fathering children and consorting with whores and whatnot ), but his ex Cathedra pronouncements will be proscribed by the power of God.

and, as noted upthread, there are very few ex Cathedra edicts.

Blogger James Dixon March 10, 2017 4:38 PM  

> That would require a Pope to declare infallibly something that contradicts something else a Pope declared infallibly.

No, it wouldn't. The Pope could sit in the Chair of St. Peter tomorrow and declare that it's infallible doctrine that the sun sets in the east. No one could stop him from doing so.

Blogger Matamoros March 10, 2017 4:38 PM  

@160 An endemic problem with the RC church has been its religious leaders have often been indistinguishable from political leaders, with all the corruption and injustice that

Actually the Catholic Church is Universal, while Orthodox churches are State Churches controlled wholly by the State.

One can see this in action with Putin's control of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Read Vladimir Soloviev's "Russia and the Universal Church" to understand what happened to the Orthodox.

Blogger James Dixon March 10, 2017 4:40 PM  

> Catholic Doctrine is that God *will not permit* a Pope to make an ex Cathedra pronouncement which is in doctrinal error.

Which is another way of saying exactly the same thing. Either way you are binding God to correct an incorrect action.

Blogger The Kurgan March 10, 2017 4:42 PM  

VD,
Two things:
1. That's not actually a Catholic organisation
2. Neither is Bergoglio.

Third thing (because Catholics always have exceptions to all the rules): There hasn't been a legitimate Pope since 9th October 1958.
Sede Privationists are the only remaining real Catholics.
They refer to Bergoglio as an impostor basically.

Blogger James Dixon March 10, 2017 4:43 PM  

> Actually the Catholic Church is Universal

By definition, yes. That's what catholic means.

1 – 200 of 310 Newer› Newest»

Post a Comment

Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.

<< Home

Newer Posts Older Posts