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Wednesday, April 19, 2017

Restoring the deconstructed West

The American Interest chronicles the sudden, and unexpected, decline of the West:
The problem confronting the West today stems not from a shortage of power, but rather from the inability to build consensus on the shared goals and interests in whose name that power ought to be applied. The growing instability in the international system is not, as some argue, due to the rise of China as an aspiring global power, the resurgence of Russia as a systemic spoiler, the aspirations of Iran for regional hegemony, or the rogue despotism of a nuclear-armed North Korea; the rise and relative decline of states is nothing new, and it doesn’t necessarily entail instability. The West’s problem today is also not mainly the result of the economic decline of the United States or the European Union, for while both have had to deal with serious economic issues since the 2008 meltdown, they remain the two largest economies in the world, whose combined wealth and technological prowess are unmatched. Nor is the increasing global instability due to a surge in Islamic jihadism across the globe, for despite the horrors the jihadists have wrought upon the peoples of the Middle East and North Africa, and the attendant anxiety now pervading Europe and America, they have nowhere near the capabilities needed to confront great powers.

The problem, rather, is the West’s growing inability to agree on how it should be defined as a civilization. At the core of the deepening dysfunction in the West is the self-induced deconstruction of Western culture and, with it, the glue that for two centuries kept Europe and the United States at the center of the international system. The nation-state has been arguably the most enduring and successful idea that Western culture has produced. It offers a recipe to achieve security, economic growth, and individual freedom at levels unmatched in human history. This concept of a historically anchored and territorially defined national homeland, having absorbed the principles of liberal democracy, the right to private property and liberty bound by the rule of law, has been the core building block of the West’s global success and of whatever “order” has ever existed in the so-called international order. Since 1945 it has been the most successful Western “export” across the globe, with the surge of decolonization driven by the quintessentially American precept of the right to self-determination of peoples, a testimony to its enduring appeal. Though challenged by fascism, Nazism, and communism, the West emerged victorious, for when confronted with existential danger, it defaulted to shared, deeply held values and the fervent belief that what its culture and heritage represented were worth fighting, and if necessary even dying, to preserve. The West prevailed then because it was confident that on balance it offered the best set of ideas, values, and principles for others to emulate.

Today, in the wake of decades of group identity politics and the attendant deconstruction of our heritage through academia, the media, and popular culture, this conviction in the uniqueness of the West is only a pale shadow of what it was a mere half century ago. It has been replaced by elite narratives substituting shame for pride and indifference to one’s own heritage for patriotism.
Western civilization is a consequence of three things: The European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy of philosophy and law. To restore it, anything and everything that stands in the way of those three things has to go.

The elite narratives that are designed to subvert and undermine the three pillars of the West must be rejected. These include "civil rights", "civic nationalism", "social justice", "equality", and "Judeo-Christianity", "feminism", and "racism".

One of the challenges is that many people who generally support Western civilization nevertheless support one or more of these elite narratives in the misguided opinion that it benefits their identity in the long term. This is why women pursue higher education that leaves them barren because it is "good for women", blacks pursue expansions of the welfare system because it is "good for blacks", Mexicans fight English-only laws because it is "good for Spanish-speakers", Italians and Irish pursue religious pluralism because it is "good for Catholics" and why Jews attempt to change national population demographics because it is "good for the Jews".

In each case, the group's perception of what benefits them is short-sighted, and in the long term, wrong. And, if their objectives stand in the way of what strengthens the European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy, they have to be defeated, and if necessary, expelled from the West. This is what the Alt-Right ultimately stands for: the survival and restoration of the West. This is what logic, truth, science, and history all dictate. And upon this, everything from Netflix and smartphones and freedom of conscience and the rule of law to the ability to flush toilets in your house ultimately depends.

This is why I don't blink or back down when people call me racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-semitic, or anything else. Because doing so necessarily makes them anti-West, anti-Christian, and anti-White, and I will choose the historical reality of the white Christian West over whatever bizarre, dysfunctional dystopia they imagine will take its place every single time.

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202 Comments:

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Anonymous Looking Glass April 19, 2017 4:38 AM  

Oh, one of those posts:

Molon Labe! Deus Vult!

Anonymous Cinco April 19, 2017 4:38 AM  

Now that is a well written post.

Anonymous Looking Glass April 19, 2017 4:45 AM  

On the specific "isms", it's always important to remember that they're highly tuned mental traps. Add in years of propaganda and you simply respond the way others want you to with regard to the topics. This is the problem with half-measures and being setup to fail by your elders.

We can easily note when a child comes from a bad family, we know that the lack of structure and weaker genetics are going to put up roadblocks for them in life. Some of those problems are going to be almost functionally permanent. We then have to realize they've tried to build similar assumptions into the very way to talk about subjects. Have patience with those coming along, but never compromise on the errors that they are making and the costs those will place on our societies.

Also remember that most people can't get beyond their short-term interests. It's always a lack of Wisdom that leads one to that place.

Blogger Superior hominid April 19, 2017 5:02 AM  

"This is what the Alt-Right ultimately stands for: the survival and restoration of the West. This is what logic, truth, science, and history all dictate. And upon this, everything from Netflix and smartphones and freedom of conscience and the rule of law to the ability to flush toilets in your house ultimately depends."

This! The left is beating us for the moment, but once our COPROP takes off we will eclipse them. The great triggering is just around the corner.

Lately Ive been watching 95% more TV than I have in years. Everything is leftist propaganda. One of the shows even had a black male discussing hooking up with a white coworkers (Police Officer) sister. The white coworker encouraged it. I watched to see what happened next. Another black coworker said he would do the same thing. The white male encouraged the miscegenation.

May God help us all!

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 19, 2017 5:18 AM  

VD, I didn't read the entire post because this struck my curiosity:

"The elite narratives that are designed to subvert and undermine the three pillars of the West must be rejected. These include 'civil rights'....."

I have my reasons for opposing "civil rights" but what are your reasons?

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 19, 2017 5:22 AM  

VD, never mind. I perused the remaining parts of this post. I see where you are going with that.

Anonymous Grayman April 19, 2017 5:32 AM  

Perhaps i'm a dolt, but could someone explain "judeo-Christian"?

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 19, 2017 5:38 AM  

@7 Check out this post:

http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/judeo-christian-is-anti-christian.html

Anonymous Alice De Goon April 19, 2017 5:40 AM  

@7 For my understanding, it's neocon Jews trying to link the fate of Israel/the Jewish nation to that of the Christian West. Some of this stems from the carefully cultivated belief that if Israel isn't a functional, viable nation, the Rapture can't happen and all of the holy GOPtards who shill for Israel won't get swept up into the sky to get a birds-eye view of Armageddon.

Anonymous Be Deplorable, Not Afraid April 19, 2017 5:47 AM  

I'd have to think the ongoing, successful war against the traditional nuclear family must play a part in this also.

Blogger Kona Commuter April 19, 2017 5:50 AM  

Rhodesia Vs Zimbabwe

One puts food on the table and provides the rule of law the other provides feelz, empty stomachs and a collapsed economy

Blogger Jonathan Wales April 19, 2017 5:59 AM  

How refreshing it is to visit this blog and see some common sense written. We should embrace our history and culture, not be ashamed of it. What made us great can make us great again.

Anonymous Alice De Goon April 19, 2017 6:00 AM  

It seems a daunting task to explain to people why feminism and civil rights are bad when (a) they've been drilled since day one to believe that Equality is the defining virtue of our collective identity and (b) our current prosperous environment warps the psychology of the average American, making them bend towards Progressivism (a philosophy perfectly geared towards exploiting a resource-rich environment.)

Complicating things is the fact that I work with mostly women, and any time you suggest to a bunch of modern women that feminism is bad in any way, they gang up on you and accuse you of being a monster (even if you're a fellow woman.) Many of the women I work with come from conservative Christian families, but reject the notion of male headship (or even wearing a veil in church as a ritual declaration of modesty.) To them, all attempts to control women's behavior are oppressive. I could try to explain dialectically the dysgenic effects of feminism but I don't see how I could do so without a 20 minute Powerpoint presentation explaining the environmental factors which went into the rise of Leftism (I'm bad at holding facts and figures in my head) and I get the feeling it wouldn't be very effective anyway. Some rhetorical jabs might be useful, but how could I use rhetoric without my coworkers thinking I'm some sort of self-hating, mentally ill monster?

Blogger Timmy3 April 19, 2017 6:04 AM  

It's a sickening situation to take back western society amid the violence and non-platforming of alt-right views. How to do it and win consensus is hard when even the Republicans don't care to defend their own constituents.

Blogger Sherwood family April 19, 2017 6:11 AM  

The Alt-Right 16 Points outline a clear and cogent worldview. It is a worldview that is coherent in light of history. It is a worldview that is coherent in light of recent experience. Contrast that with any of the other available worldviews. They are either incoherent when compared with history. Or incoherent when seen in light of recent experience. Nation-states work better for their polities than other possible groupings. They are more successful than tribes, than empires, than supranational organizations. While nationalism is blamed for wars, it is not more culpable for them than myriad other reasons.

The nations of Europe and their descendant nations i.e. those with majority European populations (Canada, Australia, United States, New Zealand, and the White-ruled Southern African countries to some extent) have been more prosperous, more innovative, more just (despite all their sins), more culturally productive, than any other aggregation of nations from any other ethnic entity in the world. That may well change in the future. But for now, Western Civilization is still the standard against which everything else is measured.

Blogger ZhukovG April 19, 2017 6:17 AM  

@Al From Bay Shore: I think we can agree that the 'Civil Rights' movement has been a catastrophe for African-Americans. It was a fraud that has harmed Blacks on every point that it was advertised to help.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore April 19, 2017 6:37 AM  

@16 "Civil Rights" has many damaging components. Among them are integration and the idea that rights exist along side of the State. In the case of the former, Black folks were convinced that abandoning Black owned institutions based in Black community (which caused economic dependency) was a good idea. In the case of the latter, the politics of popular Black culture came to view government (the State) as the provider of rights.

Blogger James Dixon April 19, 2017 6:37 AM  

> a) they've been drilled since day one to believe that Equality is the defining virtue of our collective identity

Stop the drilling. Home school. Turn off the TV.

Blogger Stilicho April 19, 2017 6:48 AM  

@Alice a few rhetorical jabs:

Feminism exists so ugly women can get attention

Feminism is why we are subjected to polls about which candidate has the best hair

Feminism created The View

Feminism is to civilization what Rosie O'Donnell is to a buffet

Feminism is based on the idea that you can vote yourself a husband

Etc.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 19, 2017 6:50 AM  

"the attendant deconstruction of our heritage through academia, the media, and popular culture"

Call out the people who invaded and subverted the media, academia, and (through them) popular culture.

Otherwise this is just more distraction.

It's not that it's wrong, but its incompleteness is part of a pattern of handwringing and crocodile tears while their plans come to fruition.

Our "leaders" have betrayed us. They have - through idiocy, corruption, or malign intent; it matters not which - led us to ruin.

They have to go.

The invaders have to go back, but the traitors simply have to go.

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 19, 2017 6:52 AM  

"... Western Civilization is still the standard against which everything else is measured."

Yes.

And found wanting.

Blogger Stilicho April 19, 2017 6:54 AM  

The globalist view of utopia is simply any monolithic state with themselves as rulers: everything inside the state, nothing outside the state. Their best possible result is Brazil, the more likely result is somewhere between Venezuela and Zimbabwe. The globalists themselves think they can create a worldwide Cuba that will exist without outside patronage to keep it limping along.

Anonymous Clay April 19, 2017 7:08 AM  

"Christianity"

Reading this forum, I sometimes wonder just what that is.

We all seem to have the same "end zone", but bitch and cry about the other team get's there. Sometimes, we just have to take the official ruling on the field...like it or not.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 19, 2017 7:15 AM  

No, the globalist view is a failed Brazil, Cuba, America, Germany, Russia, Persia, Egypt and England, painted beige and enslaved.

If the ideal was truly a single exemplar state, no matter how totalitarian, it would be a nationalist threat to globalist malaise: the globalist must have the border-busting violence of free trade to drain Somalia of its brightest and drive the social unity of America into the grave.

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 7:19 AM  

Ever since Western Civilisation was a thing, people have been warning of its ongoing decline and collapse. It’s been a common theme for as long as so-called ‘universal’ histories have been written - necessarily since universal histories tend to highlight the cyclical nature of civilisations and inevitably raises the question of Western Civilisation’s current trajectory.

After WW1 there is Spengler’s Decline of the West, of course. After WW2, there was Toynbee. If memory serves, Toynbee decided the outcome of the Peloponnesian War pretty much sealed the fate of the West! I’ve just been reading C Northcote Parkinson's 'East and West', published in 1963 but written as if Stalin was still alive. For Parkinson, the Hawaiian shirt and Bermuda shorts were 'symbols of collapse' , being 'degradations' of the all-white colonial uniform, and so on.

At one point, Parkinson tries to pinpoint when the decline began. Interestingly, he posits 1845 as one possible turning point when ‘Europe began to lose confidence in its mission’, signified by the declining influence of Classical architecture. I quote:

“The Greek and Roman tradition represented, remember, the assertion of the more purely Western aesthetic, contrasting scornfully with the world of Asia. The medieval [Gothic] tradition has represented some thing quite different, the frank admission that wisdom comes from the East. It was toward the East that the churches were orientated. It was from the East that their doctrines began and rituals come. And now, after 1840, the movement began for a return to the Middle Ages, to the last period of oriental dominance…”

Then he wonders about 1910, when in the midst of a European arms race, Britain raised taxes -so that it can dole out state pensions! Parkinson credits this to the nation’s ’slackening momentum’. The ‘wavering of determination’ may not have been noticed in Paris or Berlin, but it was certainly noticed in Shanghai and Hong Kong, says Parkinson.

Anonymous SugarPi April 19, 2017 7:35 AM  

Isaiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err and destroy the way of thy paths.

Blogger Gaiseric April 19, 2017 7:39 AM  

The article is quite silly; or at least the part quoted. In what way did highly nationalistic fascism or Nazism challenge the idea of the nation-state? I mean, they challenged some individual nation-states, but given that they were the marriage of a hyper-awareness of national identity and socialist economic policies, the idea that they were a challenge to the nation-state is ridiculous.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 19, 2017 7:41 AM  

Toynbee decided the outcome of the Peloponnesian War pretty much sealed the fate of the West!

Bohm, Caitlyn Jenner, first female to win the men's decathalon, would indicate that Toynbee was correct.

More likely, he could see generational decline ahead (after all, the acceleration of decadence tangibly occured in the contemporary post-war Baby Boomers, and was starkly evident by 1968), and could see its seeds in ancient pagan Greek globalism/pantheism.

Anonymous Clay April 19, 2017 7:47 AM  

It just goes to show how stupid I really am.

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 7:49 AM  

ancient pagan Greek globalism/pantheism.

Again if memory serves, Toynbee thought the opposite. He felt Greece would have done much better if the Peloponnesian War had united Greek civilisation, which instead remained a hotchpotch of city states, riven with rivalry.

OpenID neocolonial April 19, 2017 7:51 AM  

"This concept of a historically anchored and territorially defined national homeland"

He really should have stopped there. The nation state requires nothing of "the principles of liberal democracy" and based upon results of the imposition of such around the world since 1945, it seems to the most perfidious export imposed by the United States in the furtherance of its Clayton's Empire.


Blogger Doug Cranmer April 19, 2017 7:51 AM  

"... without my coworkers thinking I'm some sort of self-hating, mentally ill monster?"

Really. Why should you care?

Anonymous SugarPi April 19, 2017 7:55 AM  

@18 I would add to that, get out of the "churchian" club. For us, it means home churching in addition to home schooling bc those brick and mortar buildings even in the rural south are filled with rabid feminists.

Anonymous Grayman April 19, 2017 7:59 AM  

@8 & @9

Thanks, consider me educated. I never really conceptualized it as a single isdue, but I see that it is.

Anonymous Grayman April 19, 2017 8:06 AM  

@ sugarpi

That's where I am, working on rediscovering the path free of churchians who love using it as an exscuse, as essentially virtue signalling.

Blogger William Meisheid April 19, 2017 8:28 AM  

Re: 21. Resident Moron "... Western Civilization is still the standard against which everything else is measured."
Yes.
And found wanting.

That statement left alone is stupid. There is no perfection in any human system of group interaction. Churchill famously said on November 11, 1947 in a speech to the House of Commons, "No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Insert Western Civilization for democracy and you have a similar truism. No other system comes close to a democratic republic or Western Civilization when judged against the whole span of human history. It is the best we have ever produced, considering our foibles and weaknesses, which in Western Christian tradition we inherit from the Fall, hence the post-modern effort to "perfect" our human failings by DNA manipulation and technological augmentation, as if anything we can do will deal with the fundamental failure the Fall addresses.

The key linchpin in the three part "European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy of philosophy and law" is true Christianity, as Jude says "The faith once-delivered unto the saints" since without that the other two don't matter one wit.

It is upon the reChristianizing of the West that everything we hold dear stands or falls, including the goals of the alt right. Without that, everything else is pissing into the wind.

Anonymous Jeff April 19, 2017 8:30 AM  

Excellent post, VD. In the past, you have mentioned a fourth pillar of the West, which is Science & Technology.

Perhaps more a small post than a pillar?

Blogger VD April 19, 2017 8:33 AM  

The article is quite silly; or at least the part quoted. In what way did highly nationalistic fascism or Nazism challenge the idea of the nation-state?

National Socialism challenged the idea of the nation-state because, in practice, it involved the establishment of a transnational empire ruled by Germans.

Nazism was not nationalistic, it was imperialistic. There is a massive difference.

Blogger Phillip George April 19, 2017 8:34 AM  

In God We Trust.

All one has to do is pragmatically specify "God" and "We".

All problems disappear in a puff of logic.


Democracy only avoids a collision with Theocracy when Science and Truth agree. God is a scientist who placed you in the experiment which means you cannot possibly know empirically the boundary conditions. Jesus is the flag of the Empire on Which the Sun never set.. The Empire's subject forgot their only history.

Is all.

Anonymous Jeff April 19, 2017 8:38 AM  

European Nations

The typical liberal doesn't even know the definition of "nation".

Anonymous Dyskord April 19, 2017 8:38 AM  

The Fall of Empires are not writ in war but in peace.

Blogger Wynn Lloyd April 19, 2017 8:44 AM  

Why?
I've always benefitted from your comments.

Blogger Mish in Utah April 19, 2017 8:44 AM  

Alice, try picking at the edges. Worry out loud that peeping toms will use the trans bathrooms thing to get away with staring at women and little girls in bathrooms and dressing rooms.
Mention in passing that history has never gone in one direction, and is cyclical if anything. The pendulum swings back and forth.
Look for examples that don't fit the narrative.
Use humor.
If you can red pill them on anything at all, it breaks the narrative, and starts them on the path to cast the scales from their eyes.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 19, 2017 8:45 AM  

#32 well she is a woman and to a woman hierarchy is life. Women are herding species.

OpenID herenvardo April 19, 2017 8:47 AM  

The West was a product of Catholicism; the West will not resurrect without it. You can't have a cult-ure without a cult-us.
Admittedly, there will have to be a new generation of Catholics before it's in any shape to do its job again; the upcoming struggle against the Ummah should do nicely.

Blogger VD April 19, 2017 8:53 AM  

The key linchpin in the three part "European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy of philosophy and law" is true Christianity, as Jude says "The faith once-delivered unto the saints" since without that the other two don't matter one wit.

You're utterly wrong. Christianity in a non-European context will not produce Western civilization. The Coptic Christians are not Western.

If there was a single key, I would have mentioned it. All three pillars are absolutely required. It's abysmally stupid to claim that Christianity = Western Civilization since the former predated the latter and also exists outside it.

Stop cucking. Because that is the motivation that underlies your falsehood.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 19, 2017 8:53 AM  

The stew's ingredients:
1. The highest living standards in the world, exclusively the product of Western nations.
2. Progressivist or Fabian socialist embrace of the Gnostic Heresy (by any other name.)
3. Social mood's rise since the end of the 18th century, eventually resolving into the greatest social mood mania in recorded history, running 35 years and counting.

All of this cemented a system of beliefs so pervasive that every Western nation came to be ruled by a single theocracy whose sacraments came to be conflated with Western Civ's philosophical foundation.

Western Civ is NOT founded upon equality.
Western Civ is NOT founded upon "improving the world," "saving humanity" or any other Universalist claptrap any more than Christianity is based on turning Planet Earth into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Take a step back, however, and we can see clearly that Every Single Discussion about public policy (including the article quoted) springs from just these fallacies.

External validation is the broadest term I can conjure to describe the trend. Whether conspicuous consumption intended to cause envy or "virtue-signaling" public demands to "save the whales," "save the children," "save the Beanie Babies" or "destroy the racists, homophobes, gun-owners, etc.," ALL of Western Peoples turned to pursue external validation with a vengeance while ignoring internal validation and its pursuit of spiritual wealth.

First, saving the World's People was rationalized into colonialism (the White Man's Burden.) Then, the fad became DE-colonizing (again, to save the World's People.)

As M.G. wrote on "Thosewhocansee" blog, even Africans don't want to live in countries run by Africans. EVERYONE wants to live in a Western country run by Westerners (at least until the immigrants achieve enough of a plurality that they can institute their natural predilections for the home culture, thus screwing up what they want, but that's another argument.)

Social mood is the driver, to me, and theoretical purity requires that outside conditions do not affect social mood's patterned rise and fall. But they do appear to me to influence the character of social action within the prevailing mood.

Fiat money and a secular bond bull market FED an optimistic social mood, leading to absolutely maniacal levels of "We Can Do Anything!!!!" "We" can even eliminate BIOLOGICAL REALITY (sex & HBD), for Heaven's sake! That's how spun-up into optimistic pathological folly our societies became.

The rise and fall of empires, of dominant political organizations (e.g., the nation-state) and all else is subsumed by the unconscious mood of the herd. Truly this gives life to H.L. Mencken's timeless observation: "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." I just take this to the level of Etienne de la Boetie's "Discourses," observing that all social structures of humanity exist only with popular consent.

Today we swim in a sea of social mood mania, but discussing its effects is much like describing "being wet" to a fish.

Blogger frigger611 April 19, 2017 8:54 AM  

I agree that "civil rights" is an obscure idea that has been elevated to some kind of sacred level that cannot be criticized.

There have been many watershed moments in American history that one can point to that has led us to our demise.

I think the "Little Rock 9" event of 1957 was one of the most destructive. Under the guise of virtue and fairness, it is claimed that "segregation" was ended. In fact, and in effect, what really happened is that the Supreme Court declared that "we will now FORCE the races to integrate." So just 9 black kids got to be educated at an all white high school. Seemed like a small thing at the time.

Segregation was replaced (as a national policy) by FORCED integration.

Heretofore people settled in their communities among others, neighbors, largely of their same kind. Now declared unlawful.

Eisenhower federalized 1000 National Guard troops armed with rifles to ensure that every American knew that the days of freedom of association were over.

Blogger VD April 19, 2017 8:54 AM  

Some rhetorical jabs might be useful, but how could I use rhetoric without my coworkers thinking I'm some sort of self-hating, mentally ill monster?

Tell them that you prefer flush toilets to feminism. Because the latter will only lead to the loss of the former.

Blogger Mish in Utah April 19, 2017 8:55 AM  

Alice, also use the excesses of third wave feminism. Wonder how the noble goals of equality for all turned into shutting people up. Sadly muse that the previous generation of tough women who showed the world that women could do anything a man could do must be appalled at the current trend of treating women as delicate snowflakes. What do they think women should do? Be cloistered away because they can't bear to hear an unkind word or anything ugly? They are turning women into weaklings! ;-)
In other words, don't try to bridge the gap in one jump. Pick at the edges. Show the inconsistencies and gently pull apart the threads of the progressive narrative.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 19, 2017 9:06 AM  

"The problem, rather, is the West’s growing inability to agree on how it should be defined as a civilization."

The way I'd put it is that there's a refusal to accept the definition of civilization. Civilization has already been defined by centuries of experience with it. Moderns just refuse to accept what it is and what makes it up, and hope to have it without its ingredients. "Deconstruction" is the perfect word for it, because the attitude is, "We can take out the patriarchy and replace it with egalitarianism and women's rights; we can take out Christianity and replace it with ecumenism and religious liberty; we can take out objective reality and replace it with subjective experience; we can take out the classics and Scholasticism and replace them with modern art and pop psychology; we can take out nations and hierarchy and replace them with corporate states and consumerist democracy; and we'll still have civilization."

It's like the story of the ax: "I still have my great-grandfather's ax. My grandpa replaced the handle when it broke, and my dad replaced the head when it got lost, but it's still my great-grandpa's ax." Except that they've replaced the handle with a hoe handle and the head with a claw hammer head, so you can't chop wood with it anymore, and it doesn't even look like an ax when you pay attention.

Blogger Thomas Henderson April 19, 2017 9:12 AM  

Western civilization is a consequence of three things: The European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy of philosophy and law. To restore it, anything and everything that stands in the way of those three things has to go.

At the heart of each is the authority of the father. The Germanic invasions gave the west its tribal affiliations with fidelity to the chieftain or king. Rome gave us a political order and civil law based on the pater familias, the rule of the father. Likewise, Christianity is a faith based on the filial obedience of a Son to the Father and the love that binds them together, the Spirit.

The root of the word authority is authoritas, the right to set or command a pattern.

All authority is based on parenthood. Children are to obey their parents. It is no accident that the fifth commandment to honour father and mother is after commandments about God and before commandments about neighbour. It is the hinge that connects the two.

What's more, fatherhood and motherhood are essentially different. Fatherhood is about provision and protection; motherhood about preparation (nesting) and support (nurturing). Men give (sacrifice) and women receive (adornment). A virtuous man will give you the shirt off his back. A feminine woman will seek always to look and act beautiful.

As the church is commanded to obey Christ so as to fall under his sacrifice (provision and protection), so too women are to obey their husbands so they can fall under his sacrifice and the love that binds (the Spirit). Up until 50 years ago, that was the Christian definition of marriage.

The sexual revolution was less a revolution and more of a deconstruction, a descent into confusion. Once sex was divorced from the teleos of reproduction, fatherhood and motherhood went by the wayside. Show me a large family, and I can show you a man acting like a man and a woman acting like a woman. In a society absent of this I will show you men who want to wear makeup and women who try to be ugly.

Virility and life is what gives animus to civilization. Nihilism and death leads to perdition and ruin. What is needed is men to act and think again like fathers. Only a man who has a vested interest in the future can build on the present and draw strength from the past.

Blogger Sherwood family April 19, 2017 9:12 AM  

Christianity alone does not produce Western civilization. One can find Christians around the world and from nearly every culture. If you have gone to a church someplace far from the lands of the West with Christians from other lands it becomes readily apparent that while their love of Jesus is sincere and will lead them to salvation it is not the same thing as transforming them into men or women of the West.

It simply does not work that way. I've spent a lot of time with Copts in Egypt. While there is certainly more in common between them and Western Europeans than there is with their Muslim compatriots there, they are not Western in either thought or habit. I have a very dear friend who is a Copt. He is a good person and a good Christian. But he is not of Western civilization.

Additionally, and this will sound heretical to many but is nevertheless true: even where language is not a barrier, Christians from the West tend to prefer to spend time with other Westerners who may not be Christian than with co-religionists who are not Western. You can argue that it is not true or should not be but I have seen it play out time and time again among expats.

None of which is meant to diminish the utterly crucial need to evangelize the world and spread the good news of Jesus Christ. But it will not transform those peoples and their countries into members/parts of Western civilization. At the end of the day that is less important than that it transform them into followers of our Lord but it is important to understand the difference.

Blogger Theproductofafineeduction April 19, 2017 9:12 AM  

You seem to miss the part about the German leader at the time wanting to establish another thousand year Reich.

Anonymous VFM#1819 April 19, 2017 9:12 AM  

Great post. Vox is my favorite philosopher.

Blogger Troy Lee Messer April 19, 2017 9:13 AM  

Easy. The affirmation of life. See Albert Schweitzer. Who was, God bless him,though wrong about islam. Islam is not life affirming

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2017 9:14 AM  

13. Alice

And then, most of these women become miserable. They will even state how BORING their males are in their Fem/Cucked churches, then if they find a male who is not Cucked, they will talk behind his back to the herd females, and they will tell her to get rid of him (even if she enjoys his company) for her own good (but really for the feminist herd mentality). The herd will then leave her isolated and depressed after a short period of checking up on her to make sure she stays in alignment.

I now find this amusing.

OpenID chronicrpg April 19, 2017 9:17 AM  

"The nation-state has been arguably the most enduring and successful idea that Western culture has produced."

How so? "Enduring"? It is around for no more than 1/4th of the Western history, if we count from Charlemagne. "Successful"? Let's check the key powers of the West. The opinion on this blog seems to be that USA stopped being a nation-state and became an empire in 1861, so the entire period when US was a dominant world power, and all of US successes during it cannot be used to prove worth of nation states. The British Empire, well, I don't think I need to elaborate on that, four distinct nations under the same crown on British Isles alone. France dealt itself a wound from which it never fully recovered right when it declared itself a nation state. And of course we all know what wonderful results the attempt to use the idea of German nation-state to further the Prussian imperial ambitions had produced.

"Since 1945 it has been the most successful Western “export” across the globe, with the surge of decolonization driven by the quintessentially American precept of the right to self-determination of peoples, a testimony to its enduring appeal."

The fact that a concept has enduring appeal to the sorts of people who ended up on top as the result of decolonization in no way reflects positively on the concept.

Anonymous Dyskord April 19, 2017 9:21 AM  

@50 The mistake most people make is confusing the social structure of men and the civilization we've built with that of women.
Men created our civilization. Not just the roads and laws but our courtesies, nicities, chivalry and code of honor. Men formed societies, brotherhoods etc. The purpose to better ourselves and others.
Women by nature are manipulitive and self serving creatures. Its not a insult just a fact. Women will teaer and fight and break each other down to gain an advantage.
We have put women in positions of power yet expect the same reasoning as men. Half a century of women ascending within society is not irrelevant to half a century of the decline of our culture.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 19, 2017 9:23 AM  

@13 Alice, I sound fatalistic even in my own ears, but I don't think we ever red-pill others.

I liken it to any impulsive-mind-driven vice akin to alcoholism, gambling, etc. Despite the harms depending from the embrace of vice, the rational mind works feverishly to rationalize its indulgence.

Leftism (for which feminism is but a subset) is a vice. Loud professions of faith in it are nothing but external validation-seeking, not one bit different from "Look at the nice Escalade I drive. (Don't you wish you could have one?)"

Leftism was THE fad of the last several hundred years. It was the most basic, pervasive social action driven by rising social mood optimism.

While I suspect that in some rare cases an addict can benefit from a pivotal outside influence (i.e., some observation or statement from another person that catalyzes an epiphany within the addict's rational mind, breaking through the prior web of rationalizations), most of the time I think that addicts break free of their mental trap by themselves or they don't break free at all.

I cannot change those around me to see what I see. I am left to trust that this suffocating mania will end sooner than later, and those around me will join me in seeing what I see, entirely of their own accord.

The truth surrounds us. The mania produces temporary blindness, not permanent (at least among most people...I hope.)

Blogger William Meisheid April 19, 2017 9:26 AM  

Re: 46 VD "You're utterly wrong. Christianity in a non-European context will not produce Western civilization. The Coptic Christians are not Western."

While I agree with that statement, I vehemently disagree that it has anything to do with my argument, which is that the Western Civilization triad you noted has Christianity as its linchpin. Without the reChristianization of the West the other two legs of the stool are useless. I did not say Christianity = Western Civilization but Christianity is the constant and necessary attribute such that as it dies, as is happening in Europe, and is liberalized out of real existence, as is happening in the US, the reestablishment of European nationalism and the rule of law will utterly fail without the necessary reChristianization. There is nothing cucked about what I said, since I never ever said Christianity in a non-European context will produce Western civilization. You completely misconstrued what I said.

What I see happening is an emphasis on everything but reestablishing the Christian leg of the stool, therefore all of this effort will be doomed to failure without that necessary component of Christian revival. Call me wrong, call be misinformed, but never call me cucked.

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2017 9:27 AM  

28. VFM #6306,

About Jenner: Much of this switching gender stuff, whether taking lots of estrogen or going full operation is about ATTENTION, AND MORE ATTENTION. It would be interesting to see two things:

!) What percent were talked into these change by SJW Shrinks, because Muh Depression?
2) How many commit suicide a few years down the road when the attention wears thin?


Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 9:33 AM  

@19 "Alice a few rhetorical jabs:"
Answering as a once shrill-feminist woman:


"Feminism exists so ugly women can get attention"
Most women will respond (with vitriol) to you calling some/any women ugly. Most innately have a compassionate reaction (no matter how stunted and twisted by the brainwashing) and will protect "the poor things" you've just insulted. This doesn't make them see the feminists as ugly; it makes them see YOU as a mean name-caller. (Cause it's not the ugly women's fault they're ugly!)


"Feminism is why we are subjected to polls about which candidate has the best hair"
This has merit, because today's women LIKE to think of themselves as voting like men; even though they almost never do.


"Feminism created The View"
This is meaningless to many women: either they work, so don't watch it; or they associate it with
Using this format, though, could have use: Feminism created the cock carousel; Feminism created easy divorce and no alimony or reduced child support; Feminism created the inability of a man to support a family without his wife also working.

Hit the feminists (esp. the younger ones -- or the divorced ones!) where they live: security, family stability, protecting children, being forced away from their children to work... "The View" is meaningless, except to women who stay home on the dole.


"Feminism is to civilization what Rosie O'Donnell is to a buffet"
Again, unkind. They can (and will!) focus on your insult, instead of your meaning. The God Emperor "got away" with it BECAUSE he's mean... and because each individual women did not get the chance to argue the insult. (They may DISLIKE Ro'D, but still don't think cruelty toward a broken person is "fair." You're not persuading -- or shutting down -- if they can skip over your point to focus on your insult.

Maybe: Feminism is to civilization what rats are to a buffet; or Feminism is to civilization what mold is to a fantastic meal. (Implying the dissolution or degradation of something wonderful that has been built.)


"Feminism is based on the idea that you can vote yourself a husband"

This one is great, as is!

"Etc."

I'm suggesting 'hitting them' where their natures naturally lead them: one wants the rhetoric to sit, UN-digestible and heavy, and niggling at their deepest desires. Women want stability and financial support; esp.middle-class women realize how insufficient and horrid "govt" support is.

It's pretty much true: most women have a fear -- small or weighty -- of ending up a bag-lady! BECAUSE the destruction of our society has led to men chucking their wives for a newer model, leaving "us" trying to figure out how to survive, "we" are grasping for (and voting for!) support and stability from any source!

My husband died 6 yrs ago -- and I had a very hard few years (and am STILL not 'safe or secure') because "the govt" doesn't give a damn about old White widows! (Nor does anyone else.) He and I tried SO hard to make sure I would be taken care of 'if he got hit by a bus' -- then he did! (And OH! the lessons I have learned and tried to pass on, both financial and 'future-wise.')

Solipsism, our Dark Lord rightly says: but it's yet another of the world truths we have had hidden from us: there is no safety net (esp. for White women) and so they are a little frantically,and mostly unconsciously,trying to create a world where there is. MPAI, and so they can't see the destruction they are causing. I see it, I know I'm going to drown in it, so I will try to help my people, my race, while I can.

Blogger John rockwell April 19, 2017 9:35 AM  

Also ban Soros and NGOs pushed by his ilk. As well as shut down the Universities that churn out leftist zombies.

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2017 9:42 AM  

60.Sunset

There are stage movements to the Right going on all over. It's usually spurred on by the Left's ever more extremism, and not the Right saying much, but the Right has to be here for them when they start to cross.

Jordan Peterson is an interesting person to watch on the new very extreme gender issues. Peterson strikes me as a somewhat Left professor, who has decided these pronoun absurdities have gone too far as they move into full force Canadian law, threatening to destroy free speech completely. Even the Feminists he talked to had no answers to the multiple questions he brought up about these absurdities.

Blogger Kep Hartman April 19, 2017 9:55 AM  

"Western civilization is a consequence of three things: The European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy of philosophy and law. To restore it, anything and everything that stands in the way of those three things has to go."

I think that I would add to the metaphor a fourth factor: a people (group effect) with the intellectual complexity and the patience, courage, and compassion to use the tools of governance, law, and religion. Plus science and technology.

Genetic heritage > culture > religion + law > governance.

The order is debateable. But the human population MUST be seen as the genesis. Africans, Asians, Arabs, and Amerindians are NOT the genesis of Western Civilization, nor do they appear to be able to sustain it. And unless we significantly alter their influence in the West, it looks like the West will not survive.

Blogger Gaiseric April 19, 2017 9:58 AM  

VD wrote:National Socialism challenged the idea of the nation-state because, in practice, it involved the establishment of a transnational empire ruled by Germans.

Nazism was not nationalistic, it was imperialistic. There is a massive difference.

In theory, and they never had enough time to show if they'd have been able to accomplish it or not, the Nazis wanted to replace the natives with Germans; the lebensraum FOR GERMANS. They rationalized this by suggesting that historically Germans had lived in at least some of those territories—and after the ridiculously punitive Treaty of Versailles, they weren't necessarily incorrect. And they also feared and respected the influence of Moscow to interfere with their politics locally and support Communists at home, so they went to war with them. Their wars with Britain and France were incidental side effects of their attempts to reclaim eastern Prussia from Poland and secure further lebensraum.

I think the end-state that the Nazis envisioned was a much larger ethnically homogenous European German state, with puppet and client governments surrounding them, and Soviet Russia defeated or at least beaten back.

But I digress a bit... some of that's speculative, because the Nazis didn't get to implement what they wanted, so who knows what it would have looked like in practice a few years down the road had they been successful, and it's a relatively minor quibble anyway.

Anonymous Jeff April 19, 2017 10:01 AM  

@66 Genetic heritage

What do you think VD means by "nation"?

Anonymous Dyskord April 19, 2017 10:01 AM  

@65 I've been following Jordan Peterson for a while now.
He seems an extremely inteligent person who'se red pilled himself by simply choosing not to accept the fairytales of liberalism.
He even speaks of his faith and how its intrinsic to our society.
He's 90% in agreement with us but isn't entirely there yet.

Lately you can see how the constant attacks and pressure is eroding his life. Howver he seems to have a support structure. Also lots of fans/students.

I remember watching a vid where he described how modern women are setting themselves up for misery. That high powered women work hard everyday, sacrifice their youth and personal lives in order to make big money. When they reach their early thirties and achieve their goal they realize that there's only more work waiting and more to sacrifice. Many leave at that point realizing money isn't everything. Theyb want families or friends or some social life. However While Men marry across the spectrum. Men will marry women who are richer, poorer, smarter, dumber, higher or lower status than themselves. Women only marry the same or up. So its almost impossible to find a partner. especially since fewer men are participating in academia or the biased rat race. in a decade there will be thousands of professional over educated weathly women unable to find partners. That is unless they marry down which never ends well as women are more likely to seek divorce from a man if she feels in any way superior towards him.

Jordan peterson is a great guy.

Anonymous Überdeplorable Psychedelic Cat Grass April 19, 2017 10:03 AM  

Wonderful article. To quote my buddy from grad school that guards Tillerson, "This is why I went to grad school!"

The task is quite formidable but we have to take the long view. It may not get done in our lifetimes but we certainly can start the process. Anti-Westim (or however you want to call it) to quote Vanishing American is in the air we breathe: liberalism, as Looking Glass said the TV shows that encourage miscegenation etc.

"Many of the women I work with come from conservative Christian families, but reject the notion of male headship (or even wearing a veil in church as a ritual declaration of modesty.)"

@13. Feminism is in the air we breathe. My sisters both came from the same right wing, Christian family that I did. They both rejected Christianity and one of the two is a feminist. The other one has feminist tendencies and complains about how screwed up maternity leave is in this country. My dad even told her it'd be a shame if she abandoned all her training (she's about to enter the "family business" of medicine, and for the record no she's not going to be an OB/GYN) and became a SAHM.

I was hanging out with my friends (husband & wife) from out of town last night and we were talking about my ex-girlfriend. They saw a photo of her, veil and all from her first full day of being in the Church on Easter Sunday. The wife asked if veils were mandatory and I said they weren't, that she just prefers to wear one during Mass. That was one of the things it really endeared me to her. She was the closest thing to a non feminist I've ever dated.

"Really. Why should you care?"

@14. I am not white knighting for her here but women can be especially evil bitches to each other in the workplace. Thankfully I work in a situation where I'm a statutory employee and I am essentially on my own the whole day. I don't have to deal with office politics except save once a week meetings with the other members of the group I work with.

@16 I assume you have to guard that quietly around the political section. I'm suresome of your coworkers would be shocked to know you hold that view. If it's any consolation, those of us back here stateside give you our moral support. I wonder if there's a way we could send care packages to FSOs like we do the military. I'm assuming you just need an FSO's DPO.

@sugarpi It makes me wonder who wrote the petitions for Mass one week during the primary election cycle. There was a petition for an end to divisive rhetoric. I don't think the priest wrote it...

"Admittedly, there will have to be a new generation of Catholics before it's in any shape to do its job again; the upcoming struggle against the Ummah should do nicely."

If you have ever read An Army at Dawn we are like the American army in the inter-bellum period. We are slowly getting there.

@Sherwood Exactly! Christianity did not produce Western civilization. Furthermore, you are dead on correct about how people will tend to spend time with their own even if they are not Christian. I saw this a lot when I was in Spain for six months.

@Gaiseric

Ready for Friday brah?

Finally screw Buckley! In retrospect even though I was born in 1986, the man just seems like a jack ass. To quote Hugo Weaving, "We are the future. The future is our time."

Blogger Abyssus Invocat April 19, 2017 10:05 AM  

Read the Nicene Creed. Takes 5 minutes. Christianity is no more and no less than those words.

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2017 10:09 AM  

63. Avalanche

Even the women who have "safety" in the sense of financial security, and etc., are growing more and more miserable. There are less and less available "good husbands," as the current mentality forces college grad females to swarm to fewer prospects. You have a dozen females all going after one good catch. At the top levels you have lawyer women making lower partnerships in "important firms" by their early 30's by working over 80 hours per week, then wondering why, as they hate their lives. They then marry a full Partner 5+ years older then her and have their one child, but she barely sees him as he works even more hours then her, and travels all over the world.

Blogger Thomas Henderson April 19, 2017 10:09 AM  

because "the govt" doesn't give a damn about old White widows! (Nor does anyone else.

For what it's worth, traditional Christianity placed a high premium on provision for widows and orphans.

In our mixed up, topsy-turvy world, we throw widows and parentless (latchkey) children under the proverbial bus - to fend for themselves.

Charity was never about giving free stuff to people who like free stuff. It was about men loving like men and women loving like women and both having the security and freedom to do so. And where that failed, as does happen in a fallen world, by neighbour extending love beyond hearth and home and looking after neighbour.

Anonymous Rocklea April 19, 2017 10:10 AM  

@ Alice De Goon
Feminism is great if you don't like children.
Doesn't your husband make enough money honey?
Why would you want to spend time with your children when you can pay a moron minimum wage to raise them?
Besides, I don't think western women are capable of raising children, it's too complicated. Leave it to the government, they won't divorce you.

Hit.Them.Hard. And laugh at their reactions.

"Some rhetorical jabs might be useful, but how could I use rhetoric without my coworkers thinking I'm some sort of self-hating, mentally ill monster?"

That part I can't help you with, no pain no gain. Delivery can help, one on one, or group, context also matters. What do you want? Pleasing methods? Or pleasing results.

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 10:22 AM  

@32 ""... without my coworkers thinking I'm some sort of self-hating, mentally ill monster?"
Really. Why should you care? "

Because she's a girl -- and shunning = death. Not consciously, but it's innate to women. Getting thrown out of the tribe means the tiger eats yah! It's WHY women have a (mostly unconscious) need to fit into their milieu. It's WHY the easy destruction of our civilization was accomplished through subverting the women.

We "need" to fit in; it's hugely difficult (and actively painful!) to 'swim the other way.' And,because we're mostly unaware, we naturally 'herd' with our milieu.

Until I realized it was inappropriate for me to tease the men in our weekly "hate group" (what would now probably be called an Alt Right meet-up), I used to say to them that things were okay until they "took their thumbs up off their women!"

This follows on, too, to a way to pull women 'back' from the edge. If you're interested in or -- or friends with -- some idiot-liberal female: when she says things that are "wrong" or destructive to our civilization ("I want to get see the movie Selma of that math-to-the-moon one" or "I like rap"), don't smack her with Alt White truth; merely, gently, say: "I don't go to or do things that damage my people." She can't 'recoil reflexively' (withdraw back into her pathological milieu); because it was NOT (openly) an attack or put-down. You merely staked your position (you created an opposing milieu) to which she will likely be drawn.

My late husband used to call his awakening of me (de-brainwashing!): "taming his feral female." If a woman seems like she COULD be recovered to her race and people (i.e., so, NOT antifa-girl {gag}) -- and you wish to try to do so -- you can't do it by force; you must ... entice ... her like you would a wild animal.

(On my advice list) I used to advise men to get the girl to fall in love with him FIRST, and only then begin to gently and surreptitiously untangle her beliefs. She must struggle with the conflict: "this is a GREAT guy and I really really like him; I could maybe even LOVE him!" against her inculcated (i.e., UN-natural) 'recoil' of "but he's a racist/sexist/nationalist Alt Righter!"

Scott Adams would call it pacing and leading, wouldn't he? Don't 'whack' her with "I don't watch no filthy ni99er movie" -- you merely draw and observe your OWN boundary: "I don't watch movies that disparage my people; especially not ones that lie to do it!"

Anonymous Sixth largest island April 19, 2017 10:23 AM  

Avalanche, you just became 'The Based Widow' in my book.

Blogger VD April 19, 2017 10:25 AM  

I vehemently disagree that it has anything to do with my argument, which is that the Western Civilization triad you noted has Christianity as its linchpin. Without the reChristianization of the West the other two legs of the stool are useless.

You're still wrong and you're still too focused on Christianity. Without the European nations, the Christianization of the West and the Graeco-Roman legacy are useless. Without the Graeco-Roman legacy, the Christianized European nations would not be anything recognizable as the West.

That's the point of the three pillars. All three are necessary for Western Civilization. If you don't think enough progress is being made with one of them, such as reChristianizing the West, then don't whine about what others are or are not doing, but show some leadership yourself.

I don't have much sympathy for those who whine that those taking action and making progress aren't doing it the way they would have. Don't try to redirect others, try to inspire those who see things the way you do.

Blogger JP April 19, 2017 10:30 AM  

SJWs always project. If they would likely say that of you, it's almost certain they think that of themselves. It's up to you if reassurance or humiliation is the right tack to take, but remember that you do have to work with them.

Anonymous W. Lindsay Wheeler April 19, 2017 10:32 AM  

VD is right, one MUST have a Graeco-Roman learning to be "Western" AND to understand Christianity.

St. Peter said, "Supplement the Faith with Arete". Who here understands the word "arete". It is totally a Greek term. Who here has read the German classicist, Werner Jaeger's three volume work Paideia which is about "arete"?

The term "arete" is central to Western Culture and Christianity.

Christianity is a Greek religion. The New Testament is written in Greek and most of the Church Fathers were Greek. In order to understand the religion, one must be learned in our Graeco-Roman heritage.

Socrates asked, "Can one teach arete?" Who here understands that? The Faith MUST be supplemented with Arete.

Blogger Beau April 19, 2017 10:33 AM  

Heavenly Father,

Bring a great awakening. Prepare the minds of men to receive the truth. Set aside distraction, expose deception. Pour out through your Holy Spirit conviction of sin. Let men see writ large their need to repent. Raise evangelists. Sweep souls into your kingdom by the millions. Disciple them by humble shepherds. Magnify the name of Jesus upon this earth. Thank you father, amen.

Blogger inthelionsden April 19, 2017 10:38 AM  

I am of Italian descent, and a regular reader of your blog, I also consider myself an American first that absolutely agrees with you %100. You make complete sense here, as usual, and I have benefited greatly over the years from having the privilege of reading your blog, as well as the more intellectual responses from The Ilk. Thanks VD!

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2017 10:40 AM  

75. AV

I used to advise men to get the girl to fall in love with him FIRST, and only then begin to gently and surreptitiously untangle her beliefs. She must struggle with the conflict: "this is a GREAT guy and I really really like him; I could maybe even LOVE him!" against her inculcated (i.e., UN-natural) 'recoil' of "but he's a racist/sexist/nationalist Alt Righter!"

Nope, don't work. She may fully fall in love, yet if her female herd is even Churchian Cucked, let alone full leftists they will reel her back in no matter how much time it takes. She will even believe she is "traditional." She will talk behind your back, without warning you of any issues she may be having, and build up a whole other subconscious reality narrative against her "love," ready to explode someday. All this is built up using conversations with her Herd, that her "love' will know nothing about.

Anonymous W. Lindsay Wheeler April 19, 2017 10:49 AM  

May I suggest, to understand Western Culture is reading the works of Edith Hamilton, the American classicist. Her The Greek Way, The Roman Way, and The Echo of Greece are good guides to the values, ideas, and cultural elements that make up Western Culture. She does a lot of compare and contrast between the Greeks and the Romans and between the Greeks and the East. Her books are a valuable resource for any man's library. I highly suggest them. Werner Jaeger and Edith Hamilton are the best of the classicists, out there.

In order to restore Western Culture, one must be an armchair classicist.

Blogger Lazarus April 19, 2017 10:59 AM  

tuberman wrote:All this is built up using conversations with her Herd, that her "love' will know nothing about.

AND, conversations in her head that her love will know nothing about.

Blogger tuberman April 19, 2017 11:05 AM  

84. Lazarus

Yep.

Anonymous BbigGayKoranBurner April 19, 2017 11:11 AM  

The choice is you can walk on the moon or give mo money to Latrina's 21 crackbabies. It was obvious even to the blacks who participated in the Apollo mule train protest
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2016/03/you-asked-for-it-whitey-on-moon.html

the ((((self-induced))) deconstruction of Western culture and, with it

FIFY, that's more obvious than Aaron Hernandez being found hung with a rainbow feather boa.

have my reasons for opposing "civil rights" but what are your reasons?

Having gone to a gay youth conference in DC while in college I realized that the narrative leadership would rather have homeless gay youth prostituting themselves than any better alternative. They also wanted to destroy what they couldn't have.

How many black leaders treat black youth like Marian Barry did?

Feminism exists so ugly women can get attention

Ugly feminists import 3rd world rape culture to attack the pretty girls for them. Middle school all over again.

Peloponnesian War pretty much sealed the fate of the West...Bohm, Caitlyn Jenner, first female to win the men's decathalon, would indicate that Toynbee was correct

Jenner only had to kill one woman to identify as a woman driver, but an afghani moslem that shot 102 gays still got labeled a NRA American

Anonymous Grayman April 19, 2017 11:35 AM  

Regarding Jenner and Trans:

So What! We are talking about something like 0.1% of the population if we exclude the LARPers. Frankly they should be ignored at best. If they want help, go get it. If they want attention FU.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella April 19, 2017 11:42 AM  

Hi, anyone want to start small? A Latin textbook that starts with war, piracy, and philosophy and law? My son took two years of Latin. The textbook was about a Roman householder who worshipped Isis the goddess, and the love lives of his slaves, and then, his business in Egypt. About as opposite of inspiring as you can get. He quit.

Anonymous a deplorable rubberducky April 19, 2017 11:43 AM  

Since Marx socialist theory has always had its eye on the End Of History chimera - the final state of Man's evolution. Hence it's always been necessarily international in flavor. Marxist-Leninism and the entire Soviet narrative was about the inevitable spread of communism, the "inherent contradictions of capitalism" that would doom it, and the Soviets' ambition to aggressively spread their ideology and influence across the globe.

The original "sin" of Trotskyism then fascism was the rejection of this internationalist outlook and their inward focus on nationalism. Fallout from that enduring stigma remains the principle reason why nationalism is a dirty word today among the elite. This is why nationalism is equated with Nazism with such unquestioned ease among them.

They hate nationalism and fear it. Since the days of Lenin, they've always hated it and feared it. They correctly perceive that nationalism undermines their entire progressive and humanist narrative about the journey to kumbaya.

Anonymous BBGKB April 19, 2017 11:45 AM  

Charity was never about giving free stuff to people who like free stuff. It was about men loving like men and women loving like women and both having the security and freedom to do so.

I might have to use that instead of "I would rather give the homeless vet by the liquor store money than waste it on charities with 90% overhead"

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2017 11:46 AM  

Stools, whether three-legged or four-legged, don't have linchpins. A stool with one leg longer than the others falls over.

It makes me wonder who wrote the petitions for Mass one week during the primary election cycle. There was a petition for an end to divisive rhetoric. I don't think the priest wrote it...

Usually they are helpfully sent from from the Chancery, which may write their own or pull them from a magazine. Theoretically, the priest should write his own, local, intercessions, but that's like, work. Or he could use the intercessions specified int he Missal for the Easter Vigil Mass, but that's boring and like, not relevant, man.

Anonymous fop April 19, 2017 11:51 AM  

John Oliver on the upcoming french election, (paraphrased):

"Dear France, we love you because of your tasty croissants, your fine wines, your outdoor cafes, your accordian music, your fresh baguettes and cordon bleu cuisine etc. But if you vote for the one candidate who wants to preserve your culture which we all adore, you are a horrible, horrible person."

Anonymous PVB April 19, 2017 11:52 AM  

This interview has been around a long time, and no doubt many have already seen it. However, in case some haven't, it provides a good explanation for the cultural breakdown ravaging this country and the West in general. This clip is a 5 minute segment of a much longer interview with Russian defector Yuri Bezmenov where he discusses the effect of ideological subversion on the American population. This section, discussing what ideological subversion means, starts about 30 seconds in. He says:


"What it means is to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that despite an abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interest of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country. It's a great brainwashing process, which goes very slow and is divided into 4 basic stages. The first one being "demoralization", it takes from 15 to 20 years to demoralize a nation. Why that many years? Because this is the minimum number of years which is required to educate one generation of students in the country of your enemy, exposed to the ideology of the enemy. In other words, Marxism/Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least 3 generations of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism, American patriotism. The result? The result you can see, most of the people who graduated in the '60's, drop outs or half-baked intellectuals, are now occupying the positions of power in the government, civil service, mass media, educational system, and you are stuck with them. You cannot get rid of them. They are contaminated. They are programmed to think and act and react to certain stimuli in a certain pattern. You cannot change their mind, even if you expose them to authentic information. Even if you prove that white is white and black is black, you still cannot change the basic perception and the logic of behavior. In other words, in these people the process of demoralization is complete and irreversible. To get rid of society of these people, you need another 20 or 15 years to educate a new generation of patriotically minded and common sense people who would be acting in favor and in the interests of United States society."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo



Blogger Sheila4g April 19, 2017 11:56 AM  

@13 Alice: Best of luck in trying to deprogram Churchian women. I don't have the patience and, back when I tried, I didn't have the rhetorical skills or sufficient philosophical background. When people were fleeing one of our sons' Christian school because of the growing number of non-Whites admitted who were lowering academic standards, student behavior, and hitting on the blonde middle-schoolers, every mother I spoke with adamantly insisted their leaving was due to other reasons [larger school, more extra-curricular activities, ad nauseam] and insisted "We're all the same." When I mentioned race and sex can be determined by skeletons, I was met with blank looks and silence. I left a Bible study group after I was viciously attacked by all when I mentioned our adamant opposition to daycare as one reason my husband and I were putting off expanding our family. Since the other women in the group all worked, or had grown daughters or daughters-in-law who worked, they took it as a personal attack and insisted their way was a valid alternative choice to being a stay at home mom. If I dared mention concern at the cost of Christian school tuition, I was treated to lectures on how their darlings were salt and light in the public schools because they said grace at the cafeteria lunch table. And so forth. I just don't bother to engage with most women anymore, but I wish you success.

@75 Avalanche: So many excellent points! I'm going to be sure to have my older son read your comment; while there are other issues involved [such as his employment and lack of long-term prospects/financial security], he's having a real problem meeting women who are Christian but not Churchian, Alt-Right as opposed to TruCons, and smart and capable without being feminist ball busters. As soon as he's out of the Guard he plans on leaving the Dallas area, which my husband and I whole-heartedly endorse. He needs to find a country girl.

Blogger Ariadne Umbrella April 19, 2017 11:58 AM  

oh, show them the "I love Mormon Mommy Blogs" post at ?Huffington? Bustle? Jezebel?? It has links to Mormon mommy blogs. They link off to others. There are posts by women who changed their lives to match the Mormon mommies- they went from office drones to carefully dating for marriage, then marriage and kids and rejoicing.

It doesn't need to be a negative argument. That's more of a guy thing. It needs to be a positive acquiring thing, if you will- you get a handsome husband! And cute kids! And get to make cute crafts with them! And worry about cute hairstyles! And have lots of sex w/o condoms ( Okay, unsafe for work, but a topic of interest, nonetheless) and go to aerobics class 5x a week to be super-hot!

And so on, and so forth.

Dear Ms Avalanche, I hope you find a way to security and peace.

Blogger Noah B The MacroAggressor April 19, 2017 12:00 PM  

By this standard, Russia should be considered a part of Western Civilization.

Anonymous johnc April 19, 2017 12:09 PM  

@79 Indeed Christianity itself is a nexus of three great civilizations (or cultures). The time period in which Our Lord chose to enter the world was no accident. To that end, even trying to separate Greek and Roman legacy from Christianity is a fail.


White people are pretty smart though and we'll learn. I had no idea we were this stubborn though because we've seen more than enough evidence that the path we travel leads to self-ruin. But even the Prodigal Son doped around far too long before coming to his senses, but come he did. And we will too.

The young generation is pretty far to the right.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 19, 2017 12:14 PM  

W. Lindsay Wheeler wrote:St. Peter said, "Supplement the Faith with Arete". Who here understands the word "arete". It is totally a Greek term. Who here has read the German classicist, Werner Jaeger's three volume work Paideia which is about "arete"?

The term "arete" is central to Western Culture and Christianity...

Socrates asked, "Can one teach arete?" Who here understands that? The Faith MUST be supplemented with Arete.


Excellence is a native, intrinsic virtue of the concept of the West. Without excellence, there is no West. This is why one of the most marked casualties of Western decline can be seen and and sensed in areas of former excellence:

When the admission standard to Princeton was formerly based on a man's ability to translate a book from ancient Greek to modern English, and is now a gender fluid's ability to intersectionally translate one's wealthy Islamic identity to that of a black slave in order to take advantage of the Providence of the white plantation...what you see first is a lack of excellence.

An SJW converged movie is first and foremost mediocre, forgettable and without arete. A converged institution has not only lost the ability to fulfill its original mission with excellence, but it has lost its ability to fulfill it, at all.

That which has declined, but still has components of original excellence, is saudade made concrete: the flaws do not make the thing more beautiful, but only the beholder more wistful.

Christianity is clear and definitive on this: Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable-if anything is excellent (arete) or praiseworthy-think about such things.

The three pillars must be rebuilt. Christianity in a vacuum is not Western Civilization.

PS - Whoa. My 1st time quoting Wheeler in at least nine years. Miracles abound!

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 12:24 PM  

Why isn’t capitalism considered one of the pillars of Western Civilisation?

While the other three have their place, surely things didn’t really start cooking for Europe until it overcame its Christian distaste for usury and figured out how to properly finance its mercantilism.

Furthermore, might it not be the case that what made Western Civilisation great then is now slowly killing it? We all have our problems with the elites and their terrible ‘narratives’. Isn’t the basic problem with these elites is that all they care about is making money?

There is only one unquestioned God these days - economic growth.

Economic growth caused feminism. Economic growth causes immigration. Or rather, the elites decided both were desirable because they facilitate ever more economic growth. Social cohesion be damned.

The state co-opted feminism because a state can’t fight total war with its continental rivals while half the population is sitting at home knitting. Capitalism co-opted feminism because it doubled the workforce while reducing wages - and opened vast new markets, in education and consumer goods.

The state decided immigration was the answer to flatlining population growth and further incipient wage growth. Markets won’t expand if your population is stable. Elites don’t mind the boom and bust cycle - in fact they rather enjoy it - so long as the general trend is upward.

Look at Japan. Peaceful, stable, homogenous, affluent and viewed by economists as a society that needs ‘fixing’ because of a mere twelve years of stagflation.

If you want to do for the elites and safe Western Civilisation, I suggest we stop regarding economic growth as our purpose in life. More religion could be one solution.

Blogger allyn71 April 19, 2017 12:26 PM  

This from over at Gates of Vienna today fits

href= http://gatesofvienna.net/2017/04/fr-guy-pages-islam-is-an-imposture-and-all-the-more-demonic-because-it-claims-to-be-divine/" Father Guy Pages "Islam is an imposture" Speech

And this, after the murderous madness of the Revolution, which wanted to kill the Church and make a clean sweep of the past, as if it were possible to forget history! As if history didn’t matter! As if Christ were nothing!

But without memory there is no identity! A slave has no identity. He is an object. And Islam, like globalism, wants to make us slaves! Firstly, of Allah! And secondly, of money! How long will it take Europeans to reject anti-Christian propaganda and stop despising Christ?!


A brave priest speaking truth

Anonymous Jack Amok April 19, 2017 12:30 PM  

Alice, maybe you can say something along the lines of "Feminism would look a whole lot better if feminists didn't support importing more and more people who believe in genital mutilation, burkas and honor killings."

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 19, 2017 12:32 PM  

Why isn’t capitalism considered one of the pillars of Western Civilisation?

Because it wasn't even invented until the 14th century, Bohm. At the earliest. It is at best one product of Western Civilization, but by no means foundational.

Blogger Achilles April 19, 2017 12:34 PM  

Is there an article where Vox talks about religious pluralism and what changes need to be made?

Anonymous Tipsy April 19, 2017 12:36 PM  

Sheila4g wrote:@13 Alice: Best of luck in trying to deprogram Churchian women. I don't have the patience and, back when I tried, I didn't have the rhetorical skills or sufficient philosophical background.

My dad mentioned during an RCIA meeting that he thought the problem with pedophilia (really, ephebophilia) in the church was that there were too many gay men being ordained. He was roundly denounced with the agit-prop that there is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.

Secularist cultural norms are so powerful and pervasive that they diffuse into all parts of society, even into those areas where one would expect some resistance, all the while proposing to be the measure of all right thinking people. What's necessary is for enough people to recognize how truly evil atheist secularism is.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 19, 2017 12:41 PM  

Achilles wrote:Is there an article where Vox talks about religious pluralism and what changes need to be made?

Churchianity is a crusty shell of pluralism, stuffed with the bitter cream of SJW Convergence, and coated in a treacly shell of Western Decline.

It's one stale Twinkie.

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 12:43 PM  

Because it wasn't even invented until the 14th century

Nor was the concept of the nation state by that point. Capitalism came before the concept of ‘nation state’ as we understand it. In the 14th century, states were still the personal fiefdoms of dynasties, with the odd exceptions, mainly in Italy - thanks to the growth of mercantilism.

Anonymous Tipsy April 19, 2017 12:44 PM  

VFM #6306 wrote:Churchianity is ... one stale Twinkie.

Let's hope it has a shorter shelf life.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 19, 2017 12:46 PM  

@93 Sheila, FWIW, two of my sons found decent wives on eHarmony. My conclusion is that drift-net fishing on such sites is bimodal (like everything else.) 95% chaff, 5% wheat. As long as one can quickly discern the cues, the 5% (or whatever tiny figure it really is) may be a much wider net than can be cast in-person, on a local level.

In these debased times when all or most traditional structures for finding mates are absent, there's a premium placed on creatively finding Mr. or Miss Right.

Or I could be wrong. It happens often.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 19, 2017 12:51 PM  

PS: my wife and I almost contemplated arranging a courtship between one of her favorite students and one of my sons. The ten year age difference counseled patience, and he found his girl his way. The girl will likely make another man very, very happy.

This speaks to the rarity now of truly special young women. I have high hopes for my granddaughters to be blinding beacons of desirability simply by being sweet-natured, slim and family-oriented.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 19, 2017 12:53 PM  

Bohm wrote:Because it wasn't even invented until the 14th century

Nor was the concept of the nation state by that point. Capitalism came before the concept of ‘nation state’ as we understand it. In the 14th century, states were still the personal fiefdoms of dynasties, with the odd exceptions, mainly in Italy - thanks to the growth of mercantilism.


Come on, man. Get serious. The English people are not the product of the United Kingdom. You know very well that the "European nations" !== 'nation state'.

Blogger swiftfoxmark2 April 19, 2017 12:54 PM  

And yet there are many on the Alt-Right who profess sodomy as a virtue of white men.

Sodomy is anti-Christian. Always has been, always will be.

Blogger Sam April 19, 2017 12:55 PM  

@98
Because you can have Western Civilization without capitalism.

Blogger James Dixon April 19, 2017 12:58 PM  

> By this standard, Russia should be considered a part of Western Civilization.

Up until 1917, it was.

Blogger Achilles April 19, 2017 12:59 PM  

@106 Thanks, but Vox makes specific reference to, "Italians and Irish pursue religious pluralism because it is "good for Catholics"". Simply curious on his views regarding religious pluralism and what changes he views as necessary for the West to survive.

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 1:02 PM  

BRAVO for Vox!
One of your best performances.
I read James Burnham's Suicide of the West when I was in college and it convinced me.
I am still convinced.

Blogger James Dixon April 19, 2017 1:07 PM  

> I had no idea we were this stubborn though because we've seen more than enough evidence that the path we travel leads to self-ruin.

It's one of our more endearing faults, I'll admit.

> He was roundly denounced with the agit-prop that there is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia.

SJW's always lie.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 1:11 PM  

There is a clear "tragedy of the commons" at work.

VD
One of the challenges is that many people who generally support Western civilization nevertheless support one or more of these elite narratives in the misguided opinion that it benefits their identity in the long term.

Except that "the commons" in this case is civilization itself.
Since civilization itself was built by white men for the most part and is still maintained by white men, white men are "the commons" that is being tragically, systematically, looted. In order to replace the despised, despicable and Deplorable white men with women of all colors and men of other colors, standards have had to be lowered. Where does that lead?

Sailers has a piece up about the formerly high ranking Harvey Mudd college in SoCal. A great deal of effort has resulted in computer science classes that are 50% female, and an increase in the number of black and brown people. The result is predictable.

http://www.unz.com/isteve/harvey-mudd-engineering-college-decided-it-had-too-many-white-men-now-it-has-diversity-and-hissy-fits/

Declining standards means a decline in quality of everything.
Don't be surprised if California winds up with rolling blackouts some hot summer to go along with the decaying water management system.

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 1:15 PM  

Capitalism was not invented in the 14th century, by anybody, anywhere.
Capitalism is not based on a manifesto or flag or political system.
Capitalism is human nature....to trade, to value, to expect to profit by work and exchange, to acquire wealth and property, to invent and innovate, and to own land and the means of production.
This is not something that needs to be taught or demanded or preached or promoted.
Capitalism is the natural act of survival and the path to prosperity.
There was never a time in human history when people were not capitalists.

Anonymous AureliusMoner April 19, 2017 1:19 PM  

Agreed, for the most part; this is what I've been saying for a couple of years, now - until the West is willing to reaffirm Truth and organize around it, rather than affirming "rights" to exempt one's self from it based on private "judgments" of "truth" (aka, "self-interested feelz"), no recovery is possible.

My only quibble: the Catholic Church is the only institution on Earth that has always opposed Liberalism and its legacy of "human rights," etc. Until the advent of John XXIII, the first anti-pope of the modern era, the historic institutions of the Church were still Catholic, and Italians and Irish certainly weren't pushing religious pluralism as "good for the Catholics," because religious pluralism was a vociferously condemned heresy in all Catholic pulpits. Catholics pushed for the right to practice their Faith, not on grounds of religious pluralism, but on the grounds that their Faith is the only one that man has the right to practice.

Protestantism - fomented by Jewry and a growing, mercantile class - advocated rights abstracted from objective norms of truth and morality, as a way of justifying the pursuit of their personal and depraved interests, contrary to the integral truth and power of Western Civilization, chiefly embodied in Catholic "throne and altar." Liberalism, beginning in Protestantism, is a novel evil, because it makes the legitimate complaint of injustice from corrupt authorities, into a pretext for private exemption from the necessarily intrusive power of legitimate truth and authority altogether. Until Western Civilization repents, it will be essentially a "Jewed" entity - i.e., an apostate people who, kicking at the goads of True Order, is handed over to foreign domination and humiliation, always experiencing the pangs of conscience, but driven by hardness of heart to drown these pangs in ever more inventive forms of evil and chicanery.

I am not optimistic of a general recovery, but in the meantime, to such men as can hear it: I implore you to find the path to repentance in one of the few, remaining Catholic groups - many SSPX or Sedevacantist groups (not in the Thuc line - look it up) - before the path becomes more overgrown than it already is.

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 1:22 PM  

You know very well that the "European nations" !== 'nation state'

To be honest, I’m not sure what is meant by ‘European nations’. The term is somewhat vague, given the burden placed upon it. I haven’t read an explanation as yet. To be generous, I imagine VD is thinking in terms of Leviathan, perhaps. Or maybe the Westphalian concert. Most likely I’m mistaken. I hope it isn’t a simplistic appeal to racial superiority.

But I do know that in the 14th century, the idea of ‘European nations’ is as anachronistic as ‘nation state’. Europeans did not think of themselves as a collection of nations. They thought in terms of the Empire, Christendom and feudal allegiance - ie- from serf up to king.

you can have Western Civilization without capitalism.

I'm glad to hear it.

Anonymous Tipsy April 19, 2017 1:27 PM  

allyn71 wrote:Father Guy Pages ... A brave priest speaking truth

Another priest like this is Father Petr Pit'ha. His sermons are very powerful but because they are in Czech they don't get very wide audience. He really should be on more people's radar.

Here is a link to one of many sermons - you can try to get Google to translate, but it doesn't handle Czech very well.



Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 1:28 PM  

@118
Catholics pushed for the right to practice their Faith, not on grounds of religious pluralism, but on the grounds that their Faith is the only one that man has the right to practice.

The 30 years war has been over for centuries. Trying to restart it is very stupid.

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 1:29 PM  

#99 allyn71
ALL violent revolutions make a dramatic sweep of the established religions in history.
You mention the French Revolution, but the same was true of the American Revolution and the Russian Revolution.
The established church has often been used by the reactionary authority to maintain the status quo, which is exactly what the revolutions were intended to overthrow.
But if you will notice, in every case....the mores of the people still remain (many generations later), even when punished by death and horrible treatments....most especially in the Russian and French revolutions.

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:31 PM  

The problem with the west is we have an infestation. A parasite is killing the host.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2017 1:32 PM  

Noah B The MacroAggressor wrote:By this standard, Russia should be considered a part of Western Civilization.
Absent the "ROMAN" part, they could be. In Russian history, the role Rome played in our history is taken by the Khans, particularly the Golden Khanate.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russians have been learning the value of rule of law, even as we forget it. But they have not fully absorbed the lesson and it is not part of their history or culture.

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:32 PM  

And o the subject of false equivalence. The italians, irish, latinos or women have nothing on the orchestrator of the rot.

No need for equivocation.

All the problems in this world are the high iq gypsy people.

Hitler was right. Thats why he was demonised by zion. Just like emmanual goldstein by big brother.

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 1:33 PM  

Capitalism is human nature

No, it is not. Primitive societies do not organise joint stock companies. They do not regard notional equity as wealth. Primitive societies are as likely to regard gift-giving as the principle means of exchange as trade.

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:34 PM  

Russia is more european than zion ever will be. Their genetics are far closer to ours than the mena huckster race.

Judeo christo my fuckin arse.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 1:34 PM  

@122 DonReynolds
ALL violent revolutions make a dramatic sweep of the established religions in history.
You mention the French Revolution, but the same was true of the American Revolution and the Russian Revolution.


Provide examples of the American revolution making "a dramatic sweep of the established religions". Consider this a direct question.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2017 1:35 PM  

Usury-based Capitalism is what has been killing Western Civilization for 300 years.
(((Usury))) is not foundational to Western Civ, it is antithetical to it.

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:36 PM  

NIIIIICE semantics arent logic. You are being obtuse purposefully because you dont want to admit you would ratger set yourself on fire than live with your own kind.

NNNNIIICCCEEE

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:37 PM  

Property rights are not human nature you idiot.

Get ab autism test.

Try property rights in somalia or jamaica.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 1:37 PM  

@124
Absent the "ROMAN" part, they could be. In Russian history, the role Rome played in our history is taken by the Khans, particularly the Golden Khanate.

Russia is not Western. It is not Asiatic. It is Russian.
Do a search on "Third Rome Theory" and "Slavophiles", then read about Tzar Peter the Great.

Where's Markku when we need him?

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:40 PM  

It is. Many are of viking heritage. Their art, literature and architecture is more european than asian.

The ottomans even though they were consider a european political actor for centuries are not. In fact cobtemporary references to ottoman were of an invader.

Blogger VD April 19, 2017 1:41 PM  

Why isn’t capitalism considered one of the pillars of Western Civilisation?

No. It's a consequence, not a cause.

To be honest, I’m not sure what is meant by ‘European nations’.

Then you're not capable of joining any discussion on the subject.

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:44 PM  

More obtuseness. They dont care about gdp figures. You can make money in pakistan actually.

They care about relative wealth. We neasure our wealth relatively. Not absolutely.

They are not autistic. They care about power, relative worth and liquidating the gentiles to keep the racket going.

Blogger Some Dude April 19, 2017 1:47 PM  

No the journey to zion. They like nationalism. Or lumpen nationalism avtually as a narrative.

All the original bolshies were jewish. Look it up.

And marx was 100% correct about agg demand flatlining in a sieve economy. They kill wages eventually. Thats why the gentile elite agree with zion for open borders to increase r on capital. But the deal with the devil is liquidation of gentile.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 1:48 PM  

@133 some dude
It is. Many are of viking heritage.

Many are not.

Their art, literature and architecture is more european than asian.

Russian art, literature and architecture is more Russian than European or Asian. Do the searches I mentioned above. Learn something about the "Third Rome", an idea that is far from dead even today.

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 1:48 PM  

#128 A Deporable
There was only one established church in the colonies at the time of the American revolution....the Anglican Church.
Yes, it was de-established in every former colony.
Thomas Jefferson wrote it was the most difficult thing he ever did...which was to stop the collection of tithes for the Church of England as taxes by the state.
After the American revolution, the Anglican Church was no longer the establishment church and no tithes were collected by the government.
This was also party in response to the Quebec Act before the Revolution, where Protestant inhabitants of Quebec were required to tithe to the Roman Catholic Church by the British government.
Yes, there was an establishment church until the American Revolution and that was no doubt a part of the Revolution in this country. One could even argue that the American Revolution could be best understood as having began in the English Civil War.

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 1:51 PM  

Then you're not capable of joining any discussion on the subject.

I'd be delighted if someone would explain it to me. If it's a matter of Völkisch, so be it, so long as I know.

Blogger allyn71 April 19, 2017 1:57 PM  

@ 122 DonRenyolds

ALL violent revolutions make a dramatic sweep of the established religions in history.
You mention the French Revolution, but the same was true of the American Revolution and the Russian Revolution.


First, I mentioned nothing, Fr. Pages did. I posted an excerpt of his. I suggest you watch/read the link before commenting. Those few sentences were not the entirety of the talk, hence the link.

Also as stated by A Deplorable paradigm, in what way did the American Revolution make a dramatic sweep of the established religion?

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 1:58 PM  

@138 Don Reynolds
There was only one established church in the colonies at the time of the American revolution....the Anglican Church.

No. Not in Massachusetts, not in Rhode Island - do you even know how Rhode Island came to be founded? Are you arguing that the Roman Catholic church did not exist in Maryland circa 1776?

Pennsylvania, what did William Penn do regarding religion?
The Quakers did not exist in Pennsylvania circa 1776?

Yes, it was de-established in every former colony.
Thomas Jefferson wrote it was the most difficult thing he ever did...which was to stop the collection of tithes for the Church of England as taxes by the state.


Cite.

After the American revolution, the Anglican Church was no longer the establishment church and no tithes were collected by the government.

No tithes were collected by government in parts of the US prior to 1776, either.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 2:00 PM  

The Russians can be allies of Western Civilization. But they themselves are not Westerners.

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 2:04 PM  

Russia is a very big place and incredibly diverse in race, nationality, and history. Yes, there are important Viking migrations up the many big rivers in the western-most areas of the country. The Ukranians are often taken as Asiatics. In the south of western Russia, the Cossack and Turkish peoples are known to have lived for centuries. Many parts of western Russia are Slavic and were once part of Poland and Hungary. Tashkent and Samarkand were both capital cities of the Mongol Empire. Over 200 different languages and dialects are spoken in Russia, so it is difficult to speak of Russia as a nation or a single people. It is probably best characterized as a place (eleven time zones wide) that no other country has jurisdiction. Even the reign of the Czar was the Ruler of All Russias.....which was plural, not singular.

Blogger allyn71 April 19, 2017 2:04 PM  

As I was typing I see you answered Deplorable. I wondered if that was your argument and have no objection to it although I would say that the Angelican Church while no officially supported by the state it was not swept away by the revolution in American.

The point I was making in regards to excerpting that portion of Father Pages speech is to highlight that Western Civilization is lost without Christ and that without Christ we are cut off from our heritage. As such we are slaves and incapable of restoring what has been lost. Do you object to that?

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2017 2:07 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:Russia is not Western. It is not Asiatic. It is Russian.

Do a search on "Third Rome Theory" and "Slavophiles", then read about Tzar Peter the Great.

Where's Markku when we need him?

Byzantium was not Rome, however much they like to claim Rome as their title, the people of Byzantium were Greeks, Ionians, Scythians and Asiatics, with a very thin layer of Romans on top.
I am familiar with the "Third Rome" and am actually sympathetic to the argument, but that's different from the actual facts on the ground, which is that Russia is not Western. In olden days they'd have been called Eastern, but that title has been usurped by the Chinese and other Orientals.

Nevertheless, the Mongols and Tartars had a greater impact on Russian ideas of government and law than the Greeks, and that's saying something. The effect is obvious in Russian history, right down to Putin and Medvedev.

As you say, Russia is not Western. Russians explicitly despise the West. Nor is it Asiatic. Russia is Russian.

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 2:21 PM  

@141 A Deplorable
The King owed the Calvert family a great deal of money at a time when no Roman Catholic was permitted to live in the British colonies. The Calverts were Catholic. So to lose the debt, the King agreed to allow Catholics to settle in the Maryland colony. But you should know that no deal made with a King is permanent. About 20 years later, Maryland reversed that position and banned new Catholics from settling in the colony.

In the meantime, the Penn family were granted the right to settle what later became Pennsylvania as Quakers. It was never intended that the colony would ever be as large as it became, since it was given a very small shoreline, but the Penn family was very creative and claimed everything WEST and NORTH of their narrow holding on the sea. It is part of the Quaker religion (which had been severely oppressed in England), to insist upon religious toleration and that was exactly what they did in Pennsylvania....the first colony to do so permanently.

The rest of your exceptions will be resolved when you do your own reading and studying. Yes, there was an establishment church in the American colonies.....the Crown being head of both church and state prior to 1783 in the colonies. Yes, Massachusetts Bay (and thereof) was settled by Puritans. Yes, the colonial governments did collect tithes for the establishment church. Yes, the Quebec Act exists and was real....and yes, Thomas Jefferson really did say it was the most difficult thing he ever did, as governor of Virginia.

Blogger James Dixon April 19, 2017 2:26 PM  

> There was only one established church in the colonies at the time of the American revolution....the Anglican Church.

Maryland was Roman Catholic. And the Anglican Church became the Episcopal Church.

Blogger Kathy April 19, 2017 2:27 PM  

Lots of Catholics down south I'm pretty sure. Many Scottish settlers were remnants of the Jacobite rebellion. They were primarily Catholic. (Since after all, their cause was supporting putting a Catholic King back on the throne)

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 2:32 PM  

@144 allyn71
I do not object in the least and that was exactly my point about the religious mores of the people CONTINUING even after a violent revolution. Many people kept alive their faith, even under the most draconian punishments and abuses, even though the church was no longer partnered with the state. The violent revolutionaries persecuted all reactionary elements.....the aristocracy, the nobility, wealthy landowners, and priests. But the people managed to keep their religion intact until the climate improved in both France and Russia. The resurgence of the church in both countries was not a new discovery but simply the faithful being allowed to practice openly.

Anonymous Bukulu April 19, 2017 2:38 PM  

Noah @ 95,

"By this standard, Russia should be considered a part of Western Civilization."

Indeed, Russia almost is.

Almost.

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 2:41 PM  

@148 Kathy
Many of the Scottish settlers in the South were of the Church of Scotland, now known as Presbyterian.... Including my own Campbell family on my mother's side. A good many of these Scottish settlers were driven out of Scotland by enclosure laws and a good many of them were long in Ireland as Protestant colonists, particularly since the English Civil War and Oliver Cromwell.

The Jacobite army was crushed outside London and was the last time in history that the British Army mass murdered their prisoners. They had no intention of allowing any Jacobite to survive.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 2:55 PM  

Don Reynolds
Thomas Jefferson really did say it was the most difficult thing he ever did, as governor of Virginia.



For the second time, I request a cite to support this.
Surely you are familiar with elementary logic.

With regard to Mass. you have failed to even grasp who settled Massachusetts Bay (not Anglicans) or how Rhode Island came into existence (not Anglicans) and therefore what the official church of Mass. and RH. were.

There was an official state church in some parts of the colonies, but not all. Therefore your original claim fails.

Anonymous VFM #6303 April 19, 2017 3:06 PM  

Bohm wrote:Then you're not capable of joining any discussion on the subject.

I'd be delighted if someone would explain it to me. If it's a matter of Völkisch, so be it, so long as I know.


Just stop, buddy. You sound like Comic Book Guy.

Blogger Kathy April 19, 2017 3:13 PM  

You're wrong about that. My ancestors were Catholic and emigrated to Nova Scotia post-Culloden from Barra.
The final defeat of the Jacobites was at Drumossi Moor, near Inverness. I'm trying to remember though whether they even were near London during the rebellion. Are you perhaps thinking of the previous Jacobite rebellion of 1715?

Rhode Island was definitely founded over disagreements on religion. Can't say that I know the details however.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 3:14 PM  

It is retarded to babble about a state church at a time when globalism is tearing the very fabric of nations apart, when the whole concept of the peace of Westphalia is being chewed to bits by termites. Sweden still has a state church and a king, how are they doing in the face of colonization?

The visible church of Christ has much work to do, starting with ejecting churchianity. Bickering over 300 year old issues that time has made moot isn't going to get that done.

Anonymous Tipsy April 19, 2017 3:20 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:Usury-based Capitalism is what has been killing Western Civilization for 300 years.

Yep. Ironically, according to Hilaire Belloc, the semi-Christian middle-east turned to Islam largely not because of his "revelations", but rather because his armies eliminated the usury driven debt-slavery that was rampant at the time. Even big Mo's tax rates were low. I'm sure it sounded like a good deal at the time. Now Islam is marching on the West.

Doubly ironic: Isn't it the Christian's duty to set captives free?

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 3:32 PM  

@152 A Deplorable
Doing your own lookup is not a matter of logic, nor is it necessary to have the "scholar's seat" or access to an excellent library.

But here is an excellent article by Kieran O'Keefe, titled "Left to the Conviction and Conscience of Every Man: The Disestablishment of the Protestant Anglican Church in Virginia".
It is short, so it won't be too painful, and full of fun facts you can tell at dinnertime, only 19 pages, with another two pages of bibliography, primary and secondary sources. (Use them.)

I found it on Bling with the search "Jefferson on de-establishment of the Anglican church in Virginia"....so it is a pretty good match.

As documented, many of the complaints by Baptists and Presbyterians of abuse and suppression by the Anglicans, including violence, actually led to the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in 1786 (drafted by Jefferson). You can search for that one too. Terrific document. There is also ample EXPLICIT coverage of the tithe collected by the government for the establishment church.


Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 3:56 PM  

@154 Kathy
The First Jacobite rebellion was in 1715 over restoring James Stuart to the throne of England. Many of the surviving prisoners were executed and two years later they were pardoned, except for the Clan Gregor, specifically excluded by the Act.

The Second Jacobite rebellion was in 1745 to attempt to restore his son, Charles Stuart to the throne. (That was apparently your own family connection.) This was during the War of the Austrian Succession, when most of the British army was in continental Europe. The Jacobite army took Edinburg, Carlisle, Manchester, and got as far as the old Roman city of Derby. Once some divisions were recalled from the European war, the Jacobite army retreated back to Culloden and was there defeated.

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 19, 2017 4:10 PM  

@157 Don Reynolds
Doing your own lookup is not a matter of logic, nor is it necessary to have the "scholar's seat" or access to an excellent library.

Handwaving with out bothering to support assertions is not reason.

But here is an excellent article by Kieran O'Keefe, titled "Left to the Conviction and Conscience of Every Man: The Disestablishment of the Protestant Anglican Church in Virginia".

Thank you for finally answering the direct question.

It is short, so it won't be too painful, and full of fun facts you can tell at dinnertime, only 19 pages, with another two pages of bibliography, primary and secondary sources. (Use them.)

Thanks for the Scalzi-esque snark, too.

I found it on Bling with the search "Jefferson on de-establishment of the Anglican church in Virginia"....so it is a pretty good match.

Found on Bling, did you? The urban search engine?

As documented, many of the complaints by Baptists and Presbyterians of abuse and suppression by the Anglicans, including violence, actually led to the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom in 1786 (drafted by Jefferson).

Was that part of the American suppression of the state church that was just like what the Directory did in France and the Bolsheviks did in Russia? Just wondering.

You can search for that one too. Terrific document. There is also ample EXPLICIT coverage of the tithe collected by the government for the establishment church....in Virginia.

Nowhere did I dispute the collection of tithes by government in Virginia. One colony down, twelve to go plus the frontier west of the Line of 1763, dude.

Your attempt to equate the American revolution with the French and the Russian revolution isn't working out too well. Maybe you could work with Wheeler and Moldbug on that?

Blogger Weouro April 19, 2017 4:16 PM  

Probably been said already, but the idea that the Catholic Church is bad for Christianity or the West doesnt make sense. Bad for America, maybe, since America is a protestant nation. But if any one branch of Christianity has been bad for the West as a whole it's protestantism.

Blogger OneWingedShark April 19, 2017 4:19 PM  

VD wrote:The elite narratives that are designed to subvert and undermine the three pillars of the West must be rejected. These include "civil rights", "civic nationalism", "social justice", "equality", and "Judeo-Christianity", "feminism", and "racism".

Why is "Civil rights" included in this list? -- correctly understood, civil rights are those rights which are tied to Citizenship.

Now, I'll grant that there's a lot of confusion about what these entail (by design, IMO; much like the idea that the Bill of Rights grants rights rather than codifies the guarantees of such rights against [legitimate/legal] government authority), but that doesn't make civil rights themselves invalid -- does it?

Blogger Mr Darcy April 19, 2017 4:23 PM  

@93:

You wrote:

he's having a real problem meeting women who are Christian but not Churchian, Alt-Right as opposed to TruCons, and smart and capable without being feminist ball busters.

Tell him to come to South Carolina. We have plenty of such women.

Blogger Mr Darcy April 19, 2017 4:56 PM  

@138: You are almost absolutely wrong. The Anglican Church was established and supported by taxation from New York to Georgia. But in New England, it was the Congregationalist Church, and it was not disestablished by the Revolution. In fact, the Congregationalist Church remained the established religion of the COmmonwealth of Massachusetts until 1828. THe first Constitution of Georgia provided for tax-supported clergy, which would be paid by the counties, but that was never put into effect. You have some study to do on Christianity in America.

Anonymous Ezekiel Cassandros April 19, 2017 4:58 PM  

@Bohm
"I'd be delighted if someone would explain it to me."

Whites.

Blogger Mr Darcy April 19, 2017 5:07 PM  

@141: You wrote:
No tithes were collected by government in parts of the US prior to 1776, either.

That seems like quibbling. "Tithes." "By gov't." Nevertheless, the vestries of every parish in the Royal Province of Georgia taxed (and collected from) the entire population of the province. Can that be defined as "government"? That depends, but in pre-Revolutionary Georgia, the parishes of the Established Church were the only form of local government, and they did tax and collect. This did not mean that other religious bodies were not tolerated (Catholics and Baptists were outlawed; Presbyterians & Lutherans were tolerated; Methodists did not yet exist), but they had no official standing (defined as the authority to tax the general population or to exempt themselves from the taxes levied by the Anglican vestries). The situation was similar in South Carolina.

Blogger Mr Darcy April 19, 2017 5:15 PM  

@144: You wrote:
although I would say that the Angelican Church while no officially supported by the state

That is simply not true. The Royal Province of Georgia established the Church of England by law and supported it by taxation (at the parish level) which was levied by the local vestries. The Establishment LAw was the act of the Provincial Legislature (1758), although that made technically lawful what had existed since the beginning of English settlement. Before 1777, Georgia had no counties; only ecclesiastical parishes.

Blogger Mr Darcy April 19, 2017 5:17 PM  

@155:

Well said!

Blogger DonReynolds April 19, 2017 5:19 PM  

@163 Mr. Darcey
Thank you.
I will accept New York to Georgia being the established church being Anglican.
Yes, New England was settled by the Puritans of the Congregationalist church....which also moved west across the US and continue to this day as the radical agitators and extremists. They are very happy and pleased with their record of social activism and agitation. One civil war will never be enough for them.

Anonymous Maldoror April 19, 2017 6:18 PM  

> Western civilization is a consequence of three things: The European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy of philosophy and law. To restore it, anything and everything that stands in the way of those three things has to go.

Let's start with Protestantism.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable April 19, 2017 6:38 PM  

Alice De Goon wrote:Some rhetorical jabs might be useful, but how could I use rhetoric without my coworkers thinking I'm some sort of self-hating, mentally ill monster?

Intersectional feminism is literally "rape culture" by the *feminist* definition of the term -- normalization of rape by hushing it up and refusing to condemn it -- as Robert Stacy McCain has extensively documented. To call someone a "feminist" is the same as accusing them of being a misogynist and rape apologist.

Anonymous GenesisJoe April 19, 2017 6:50 PM  

"Usury-based Capitalism is what has been killing Western Civilization for 300 years.(((Usury))) is not foundational to Western Civ, it is antithetical to it."

Loans with interest charged has been happening since Roman times. It has been intrinsic to Western Civilization. Hell, it was the foundation of the financial systems of the West long before 300 years ago and Western Civ. went about it's business just fine.

t

Anonymous GenesisJoe April 19, 2017 6:52 PM  

"Western civilization is a consequence of three things: The European nations, Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman legacy of philosophy and law. To restore it, anything and everything that stands in the way of those three things has to go."

Ladies and gentlemen, meet Don Quixote marching toward the windmills.

Anonymous Bohm April 19, 2017 7:11 PM  

Ezekiel Cassandros wrote:@Bohm

"I'd be delighted if someone would explain it to me."

Whites.


obviously

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 19, 2017 7:28 PM  

GenesisJoe wrote:Loans with interest charged has been happening since Roman times. It has been intrinsic to Western Civilization. Hell, it was the foundation of the financial systems of the West long before 300 years ago and Western Civ. went about it's business just fine.
read up on usury. It's not what you think it is.

Anonymous Wooly Phlox April 19, 2017 8:00 PM  

@12 It's why I read this blog, and it's comments, vociferously.

Imagine being the guy refreshing the tea and sugar, listening to the Inklings.

Been there. I was doing that in "The Great Library" at the priciest luxury condo in Boston, many years ago. Tea time is 3:00, we had a nice samovar and all the teas made by Twinings™ at the time -- including the lapsang souchong, which tastes like bongwater -- and several others. Every single Pepperidge Farm cookie. I just shut up and listened, because these people had more knowledge than I did. Way more. They're millionaires.

It's why I seldom comment here. It's simply a good thing to listen instead.

Anonymous Mathias April 19, 2017 8:17 PM  

@171,

Your statement is provably bunkum. ANY rate of interest above 0%, at a compounding rate, will allow the person charging the interest to eventually own everything in the economy. Look up geometric series, and educate yourself on the power of the exponential function in a situation of scarcity. The reasons for prohibiting usury are more than just Ethical.

Anonymous Tipsy April 19, 2017 8:25 PM  

Snidely Whiplash wrote:GenesisJoe wrote:Loans with interest charged has been happening since Roman times. It has been intrinsic to Western Civilization. Hell, it was the foundation of the financial systems of the West long before 300 years ago and Western Civ. went about it's business just fine.

Read up on usury. It's not what you think it is.


I'd start by reading Belloc on Usury, but even then I think he's not got the formula exactly correct, given the changes in the way we define, loan, and use money.

If I were to take a stab at a short description, it's the act of loaning money with terms that ultimately enslaves or places inhumane burdens on the borrower. As such, it places money above the person and exploits the borrower in his weakness, both of which are clearly sinful.

So for example, loan sharking with the threat of violence is clearly usury. So too is any trend to make loans impossible to discharge through bankruptcy or similar means. I'm thinking of recent changes in consumer credit and student loans. Loans which have misleading and predatory terms that impoverish the borrower are also likely usurious. Paycheck loans at high interest used for a borrower's running expenses also have a usurious character.

On the other hand, small business loans for the expansion or development of a business, with fair terms cannot be considered usury. Home loans at a reasonable rate that permit dismissal of the loan by bankruptcy and/or short sale are also clearly not usurious.

Another point: it is up to society to define and enforce usury laws. Unfortunately, there are no lobbies I know of that try to impede the finance sector's desire for more and more advantageous and often usurious lending laws.

Anonymous A.B. Prosper April 19, 2017 8:40 PM  

GenesisJoe wrote:Loans with interest charged has been happening since Roman times. It has been intrinsic to Western Civilization. Hell, it was the foundation of the financial systems of the West long before 300 years ago and Western Civ. went about it's business just fine.

This really isn't true. Lending with interest was forbidden to Christians for most of Western history .

And note this doesn't forbid fees or other methods of profitable repayment, only interest.

Also as an aside, this is as far as I know the only general political blog that I know of where the idea that interest is immoral can even be discussed

Its something we need to consider if the West can be rebuilt.

Also GJ to something you said, re: our host belief, I myself am wondering how anyone can plausibly Christianize Europe.

Its mostly non religious here and even Catholic strongholds like Ireland and Italy are growing far less religious.

That said the other two portion are easy to restore and it hardly counts as jousting at windmills to expel foreigners or retool a legal code

I suspect the US is growing less religious as well.

Assuming that people don't give a fig about that faith and won't undergo a revival in a timely manner, maybe a backup plan is in order.

That said

Anonymous Tipsy April 19, 2017 9:21 PM  

Re: On the exploitation of the weak by the strong. Societies cannot permit injustices forever and often the revolution that seeks (or pretends) the redress the problem unleashes injustices as bad or worse than the original one. In the usury discussion, we spoke of the rich exploiting the weakness of the poor and how, in the context of seventh century Arabia, that evil begat another (Islam).

Looking at today's world, I see a lot of sexual exploitation, e.g., alpha males over hypergamous beta females, beta females over incel beta males, polygamy, babby daddies, trophy wives and no-fault divorce, Hollywood big shots with their casting couches, Islamic princes and their multiple wives and concubines, pr0nogarphy and worst of all the exploitation of children.

The Christian way of chastity set out, as best it can in a fallen world, a way of mitigating this, and proposed a humane and fair solution to the game theoretic problem of human sexuality: monogamy. Unfortunately, we've abandoned chastity wholesale and thus we've set into motion a whole series of injustices that will grow to the point of great societal harm.

As Christians, we must re-assert ourselves in the face of these iniquities, try to truthfully set to right the evils of our age, otherwise, other forces, religions, or ideologies, honest or not, will.

Blogger Phillip George April 19, 2017 9:33 PM  

God is yet to convince anyone that He has faith in democracy.

He has got them convinced of gravity however.

What He can turn off like a light switch has everyone taken in.

For God's sake, fix it.

Blogger Gaiseric April 19, 2017 10:09 PM  

@Bohm. Read hbdchick's stuff on the Hajnal Line and the outbreeding project. That's why the Russians don't really count even though they're white. They had a thin veneer of a western elite caste. The vast majority of the common people didn't go through the same social crucible that created western civilization, however.

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 10:22 PM  

@62 " this switching gender stuff, whether taking lots of estrogen or going full operation"

Some number of years ago (maybe as much as 10?), Johns Hopkins STOPPED doing sex reassignment (sic) surgery. They found that the surgery did not 'fix what ailed them.' The mental illness did not go away, and the post-surgery suicide rate remained about as high.

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 10:46 PM  

@72 "Even the women who have "safety" in the sense of financial security, and etc., are growing more and more miserable. There are less and less available "good husbands..."

But there is no safety anymore, not even in a lot of money (and esp. if you want children)! You can still be 'dropped' in a moment, with no social penalty to the 'dropper.' The kind of women who would, in fact, be looking to marry are more likely "K" selected. In this pathological society, the woman cannot rely on societal pressures to 'enforce' marriage. (And men cannot rely on women to NOT be twisted by having been raised in it: BOTH putative partners need education and remediation!)

Back when I ran a dating, mating, marrying advice list, I would break the hearts of "the girls" on the list (they were mostly late 20s, early 30s, a few 40-50s...) by pointing out that while "Mister Darcy" was wonderful and attractive and appealing to us all, as were the serious 'manners' requirements laid on both men and women back in those olden days. The REQUIREMENTS placed on women that made MEN seem so chivalrous and mannerly was that the WOMEN had to be under their father's control until handed off to the man who asked for and was granted her hand; that they had to 'guard' their virtue and reputation which once lost was not recoverable, and if they were not 'asked for' they remained a spinster and lived on the charity of their family members.

EVERYTHING is a 'deal' -- if you want a man who will "provide, protect and cherish" (Dr. Pat Allen's great phrasing), then YOU must be respectful and a good follower to your man. There cannot be two ship captains -- ONE person must take the position of first mate: usually it will be the woman, because both partners will prefer that. (Not equals: complements! The yin partner must be AS strong as the Yang partner -- but anchored in her femininity, NOT competing to be the Yang male!) Most women haven't the experience of (say, naval) hierarchy and need to be taught both how (and when) to negotiate with the captain, and when to gracefully accede.

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 10:48 PM  

@73 "Charity was never about giving free stuff to people who like free stuff."

I always liked the concept of the DESERVING poor, and the undeserving poor! Charity, support, and help could and would be given to the deserving poor -- not the layabouts or people whose own decisions and choices led them to trouble.

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 11:10 PM  

@82 "Nope, don't work. She may fully fall in love, yet if her female herd is even Churchian Cucked, let alone full leftists they will reel her back in no matter how much time it takes. She will even believe she is "traditional." She will talk behind your back, without warning you of any issues she may be having, and build up a whole other subconscious reality narrative against her "love," ready to explode someday. All this is built up using conversations with her Herd, that her "love' will know nothing about."

It may require a certain level of intelligence and a willingness to learn. And obviously there are women who cannot be awakened. Certainly it worked astonishingly well with me, and I was able to pass a great deal of it on to the girls I was advising. (Not all of the 'rightist' stuff, but a decent surreptitious grounding!)

One sweet 30-ish kindergarten teacher nearly cried tears of relief when I made it clear that I absolutely 100% did NOT agree with cross-race dating. That she should say, kindly and gracefully, "thank you for asking, but I do not date outside my race." No one had EVER given her "permission" to not date blacks! (Nor suggested the wording to gracefully refuse, which allowed her to not feel bad even if the 'thing' did attack her for refusing.)

I fortified her with the difficulty of adjusting to just the cross-SEX differences, much less cross-racial or cross-cultural differences. (I backed it up with the occasional cross-cultural differences my Southern-gentleman husband had with his damned-yankee wife! And *I* was truly willing to learn how the South had been destroyed; I DO call it the War of Northern aggression!)


This is also why I wrote above that BOTH partners need the education and desire to learn a new way. (No one is taught this today.) If the guy awakens her, and then leaves her to her Churchian friends, it may be that he's not participating in her ongoing education, or he isn't providing enough of an anchor for her new life and way of being. (Ideally, as the man awakens here, SHE becomes uncomfortable with the disrespect so often offered to men all over this society! Part of his awakening her is to help her see it, allllll around them, all the time!)

(If she's in a churchian church -- where is he?! HE is to lead her(provide, protect, and cherish), not merely capture.

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 11:26 PM  

@84 "AND, conversations in her head that her love will know nothing about."

And yet, if she does not feel comfortable bringing those conversations TO her man... what does it say about the relationship? If she does not KNOW that when she's chasing hamsters in her brain, he is available to help her cage them, how is she to NOT feel snubbed and abandoned? And if she keeps interrupting him when he's busy to tell him about the hamsters (when they're merely in there but she's not chasing them), he's going to stop listening or helping, because she's annoying.

If she learns to interact with him, and he with her, in a way that suits them both, why would they not?

It used to drive me nuts that my beloved husband "wouldn't talk to me." (You know that old saw about a woman having 20,000 words a day to use up and a man having only 4,000; so when he gets home, he's out of words? My husband had only 700 words a day. He promised (and delivered on that promise) that if ever he had "news" -- he would tell me. Women use talk to create and sustain bonds of friendship and connection. (It's why "I'm not talking to you!" is an attack.) Men (generally) only use words to pass information. Thus: 2 men, 14 hours fishing, and only 3 words spoken between them! Drives women crazy! And women's need to talk -- and be talked to -- drives men crazy.

If BOTH partners know this, they can find ways to cope: I would read aloud as he drove us to work; not nearly as satisfactory (for me) as a conversation, but he was listening (it was often his choice of book) and would occasionally ask a question or discuss a point. If I ever NEEDED him to listen, pay attention, and answer (to "attend to my feelings"), I would tell him that directly and ask for his attention, when he had time. So, no hurt and anger on my side because he'd blown me off or ignored me; no frustration on his because I only asked for his attention when I really needed it.

If partners DO NOT KNOW these sex differences and how to negotiate them, then there will be lots of conflicts and hurt feelings (mostly hers ).

(I call the male-female sex differences Mother Nature's nasty little joke.)

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 11:50 PM  

@93 " So many excellent points! I'm going to be sure to have my older son read your comment;"

Thanks! Sheila, ask him to read (I know it's not his style -- he's a guy! -- but he will find the information useful if he intends to find his woman) the following:

1. Getting to 'I Do' -- by Dr Pat Allen (non-fiction, straight scoop, great and eye-opening!)
2. Keys to the Kingdom -- by Alison Armstrong (a 'fictional' (and quite short) tale demonstrating male-female relationships and how to avoid conflicts caused by not knowing how the sexes differ. Brilliant book!)

If your son is not put off by the far far right 'theme' to it, he may wish to start with an essay on Stormfront that I wrote in 2004 with a lot more of the wisdom of these two women -- along with my own research into relationships. It's called: "How to Awaken A Woman: The Labours of Love Series."
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t137649/

A Pat Allen quote I included in that essay:
==================
"The male energy is the giving, initiating, leading, active partner, who elicits surrender, receptivity, and bonding from his partner. When the masculine energy gives, protects, and cherishes, he is penetrating the other's defenses to surrender to the pleasure of the relationship.

A masculine man is a natural developer of anything that he sees, and that includes a piece of land or a woman. With a woman he thinks, She's going to be so great if we just do this or that, and I'll show her how.

Therefore, one of the most important qualities your masculine man will look for from you is joyous receptivity. By this I mean that not only will he expect you to receive gifts with joy, but also things that don't feel too good, such as how-to-do-it messages. A man does not want to fight tooth and nail to get a thought into your thick skull. He wants you to be receptive to his opinions, suggestions, and plans.
======================

I always loved Pat because she was pretty good at whacking me with a metaphorical 2x4 to get things through my thick skull! (Pat is certified as both an alcohol and sex addiction counselor.) There are also a lot of audio files of Pat's public sessions online -- she swears and can be a bit vulgar (well, honest and direct; may seem like vulgar), and she's pretty horrifically liberal feminist 'we are the world' kumbaya, but I just ignore that. But I think if Pat had not done the "gettin' my attention" first, Alison Armstrong would have seemed less persuasive.

I believe that most of our Rightist young men will NOT find a 'pre-made' Rightist girl' they'll have to recover one. I doubt many -- if ANY -- girls can grow up these past couple generations without getting twisted. I'm really hopeful about the Millenials I've been meeting; they're SO much wiser and more awakened than I was at their age!!

Anonymous Avalanche April 19, 2017 11:52 PM  

@94 "Dear Ms Avalanche, I hope you find a way to security and peace."

Thank you Ariadne. I had them when my husband was alive; I am working to make my way back to them.

Blogger Phillip George April 20, 2017 8:22 AM  

Avalanche you are a genius. Stating the obvious is revolutionary. George Orwell.

Blogger William Meisheid April 20, 2017 9:10 AM  

Useful critique of SJWism.

YOU ARE ONLY GUILTY OF YOUR OWN SINS: The Weight of the World. Social Justice is another name for collective guilt and punishment, which means it’s actual injustice. Individuals can only be praised or punished for that which they have done. Beyond that lies madness.

Posted at 4:30 am by Sarah Hoyt

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 20, 2017 9:44 AM  

@Some Dude
"You are being obtuse purposefully because you dont want to admit you would ratger set yourself on fire than live with your own kind."

Kek. Or perhaps "you would rather set yourself on fire than admit you want to live with your own kind." Probably an element of reflexively attempting to enforce newspeak language standards as well. But yeah.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 20, 2017 9:51 AM  

@Snidely Whiplash

"Absent the "ROMAN" part, they could be. In Russian history, the role Rome played in our history is taken by the Khans, particularly the Golden Khanate."

One might perhaps consider the etymology of the word "czar," or remember the eastern half of the Roman Empire, though.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 20, 2017 10:08 AM  

@A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents

"Your attempt to equate the American revolution with the French and the Russian revolution isn't working out too well."

Bingo. This is the basic point. He's trying to get you lost in the weeds in order to obscure the basic dishonesty of his overall thesis-- that the American Revolution was essentially the same as the French and (((Russian))) revolutions.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 20, 2017 12:01 PM  

Francis Parker Yockey wrote:He's trying to get you lost in the weeds in order to obscure the basic dishonesty of his overall thesis-- that the American Revolution was essentially the same as the French and (((Russian))) revolutions.
Shall we ask Thomas Paine?

Anonymous craig April 20, 2017 2:13 PM  

On usury: the big prohibition, I believe, is lending at interest without a fixed amount of collateral to secure the loan. Credit card debt, which compounds to infinity if not paid in full, is usurious to the core. Mortgage debt, which is limited to repossession of the property, is not usurious.

On "nation": Language drift has made this one more difficult for English speakers. The term "nation-state" describing Westphalian political entities is intended to convey the dual characteristic of a governing body intrinsically oriented around a particular people. But nation and state are not the same thing even though casual English now uses them almost interchangeably. E.g., Russian has a built-in distinction between "Russkiye" (pertaining to the ethnic Rus and their culture) and "Rossiskiye" (pertaining to the Russian state). Civic nationalism opposes any such distinction between "resident of the United States of America" and "American", but the alt-right is recovering it (even if linguistically clumsy).

Blogger DonReynolds April 20, 2017 2:54 PM  

@194 Francis Parker Yockey
@195 Snidley Whiplash

Fortunately for the colonists, it was not necessary to overthrow the British Crown, or the other colonies, in order to "win" the Revolution. They had the advantage of being separated by the Atlantic Ocean and the good judgement to be satisfied with independence....which was won by the British peace with France.

The revolutionaries in Russia and France had to utterly defeat the status quo or lose the revolution....as happened later in the 1840s across Europe.

Considering the three violent revolutions, only the American still exists two centuries later. The French revolution only lasted a few decades and the Russian revolution around 70 years. One could even say the American revolution only lasted "four score and seven years".

Anonymous Bukulu April 20, 2017 4:44 PM  

What has Paine to do with anything? An obvious outlier in terms of American sentiment by the time Robespierre was in power, and who narrowly escaped being executed by the latter.

Anonymous Avalanche April 21, 2017 8:45 PM  

@76 "Avalanche, you just became 'The Based Widow' in my book."

wow. honored!

Anonymous Avalanche April 21, 2017 9:03 PM  

@190 "Avalanche you are a genius. Stating the obvious is revolutionary. George Orwell."

Oh my! Thank you too! Advising young women (which I described as "rescuing women from the ravages of feminism, one woman at a time!")(although I had some 100+ women on my list!) was a wonderful and joyous thing to do! Seeing them realize that their deepest feelings were RIGHT and to be honored and used as a guide for their decisions and actions was: to BE chaste, to be respectful of men, to be guided by the man who was protective of them ... all the things *I* did not know I wanted and needed when I was a 'child of the sexual revolution.' (Thankfully, I was raised in a good family, so I didn't play -- but I was surrounded by it in college!)

These next couple of generations have so little hope of NOT being swayed by "their milieu" -- which they are biologically programed to wish to fit into. And to have someone who could explain WHY they felt so bad with what (((society))) was telling them they were supposed to want and like set them SO free!

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