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Monday, April 10, 2017

The Alt-Lite's fatal flaw

The Z-man explains the fundamental weakness of the Alt-Lite: their firewall is to the Right:
The defect with the Alt-Lite is the same problem the Buckley Conservatives had a generation ago. They have no antibodies to resist entryism, because they lack a timeless definition of what it means to be Alt-Lite. Western Civilization, after all, includes Karl Marx and Hitler. Nazism is just as much a part of the West as John Locke. In fact, Hitler currently casts a longer shadow than any of the men of the Enlightenment. On what grounds can the Alt-Lite reject Hitler, but embrace the slave owning Jefferson?

The same is true of anti-racism and egalitarianism. How can these be rejected when they are inventions of the West? Of course, the Alt-Lite makes no attempt to reject these as that would get them in trouble with the Left. That’s what opens the door to, and requires them to accept, the defining feature of the dominant orthodoxy. That feature is the blank slate. As McInness goes to pains to point out, if a hotep brotha is on the Trump Train, he has a place at the table of the Alt-Lite, a cherished place.

That’s the fatal flaw that was the undoing of the Buckley Right. The Alt-Lite has no affirmative argument. Instead, it is a list of things it is not and most of those things are to their Right. That firewall they are building to their Right, just as Buckley did with Kirk and with the paleocons, comes at the expense of any defensible line of demarcation between themselves and the Left. That leaves them open to entryism, corruption and subversion, which is why the leading opponents of Trump are all Buckley Conservatives.

That brings us back to the beginning. O’Sullivan was mostly correct, but he left out the most important part of the rule. That’s the definition of Right Wing. What is it that forever separates the Right from the Left? What is the thing about which there can be no meeting in the middle, between Left and Right? The great divide that can never be crossed, is biology.The Left embraces the blank slate and rejects biological reality. The Right accepts biology, human diversity and all the truths about the human animal that arise from it.
And biology is precisely where the Alt-Lite flirts with the delusional approach to reality of the Left, because it finds reality too painful and too dismissive of their egalitarianism as well as their various utopian notions.

Spacebunny helpfully sums up the intrinsic incoherency of the Left:
  1. Celebrate Diversity!
  2. We are all the same!
  3. Cultural appropriation is wrong!
It doesn't bode well for the Alt-Lite that they attempt to cling to so many of the same equalitarian myths that have rendered the Left an incoherent intellectual joke. I've yet to see the civic nationalist who can even begin to defend himself against the growing quantity of conclusive nationalist arguments, and yet, many of them cling to their civic nationalism all the same. For now.

That being said, I wholly support the Alt-Lite. Because it is from them that the Alt-Right will grow, as experience and observation gradually clarifies their thinking.

Labels: ,

211 Comments:

1 – 200 of 211 Newer› Newest»
Blogger Resident Moron™ April 10, 2017 4:37 AM  

What we've seen is that, if an organization has no protection from lefty entryism, then it will be infiltrated, subverted and converged.

The altLite may be a useful stepping stone to the altRight, for those working towards a political homeland with defended borders, a coherent culture of realism, and an actively self-perpetuating population.

But the future of the altLite itself is certain, as a simple function of its condition.

Anonymous 5343 Kinds of Deplorable April 10, 2017 5:07 AM  

Spacebunny is a meme monster.

Blogger Wanderer April 10, 2017 5:14 AM  

Alt-Lite still has a purpose though. Guys like Milo and PJW got millions of people questioning the narrative and taking the first red pill, and have done more in a year than all the Nazi LARPers and hard right dudes ever did in decades. Sure, a lot of these fresh converts still allow the left to frame the narrative, and thus spend half the time virtue signaling about all the based trannies and based negro Trump supporters that are in their friends circle to prove how not transphobic they are, but the hard right shouldn't be ridiculing and alienating these people. They should be slowly handing them increasingly more bitter red pills and slowly get them to see more truths.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 5:16 AM  

Civic Nationalist look back to the days of seeing people like Don Rickles, Johnny Carson, Dean Martin, etc. making fun of everyone and everybody laughing, and they think, "see the dream happened! We can have that again!"

They refuse to see that the fact it collapsed shows it was certainly not easily sustainable and indicates that all might not have been right. It was a mirage, a beautiful illusion perhaps, but that's all it was. Like people looking at a Seurat painting, they see the large painting but they fail to notice all the tiny different colored dots, and simply think to copy an recreate it they just need to paint a day at the park, or maybe just take a picture of people at a park, and it will be just like the original.

So how many dead white people do they need to see in order for them to grok that the dream is truly dead?

Blogger The Social Pathologist April 10, 2017 5:18 AM  

The great dividing line is reality, and its nature. Furthermore, accepting the reality of biological differences is not enough. Socialist(Positivist) biological realism is a different beast to Christian biological realism.

(Yes, Yes, I know many of the Churches are blind to this but this appears to be a relatively recent phenomenon)

Blogger SteelPalm April 10, 2017 5:21 AM  

I think this is where definitions get murky.

A lot of people believe in race realism as much as Vox or anyone here does and reject egalitarianism while still not buying into all the positions associated with the Alt-Right.

Jared Taylor, Peter Brimelow, and John Derbyshire all come to mind, among others. (All of whom I respect tremendously)

Blogger FrankNorman April 10, 2017 5:23 AM  

I'm not so sure the Left really rejects biology - they just have a different goal for it.

Blogger Doom April 10, 2017 5:29 AM  

This explains, finally, several folk I have known. I lumped them with the left, in spite of them not being quite of the left. It's just that, no matter what someone believes, if the final analysis sees them defending that side of the left, and blind to it, they are of the left for all practical purposes.

And, yes, I have bitten into that poison apple myself. Spitting it out doesn't completely cure, that takes time.

Then again, there is no perfect cure, save death and salvation, in this world. Even that is other worldly, of course.

OpenID hornofthemark April 10, 2017 5:31 AM  

It's the belief that race and culture are completely independent that they have to get over. Aside from the fact that they're interdependent factors, what kind of person can really abandon their native culture entirely?

I was looking at pictures of a Viking historical festival yesterday. What immigrant to a Scandinavian country would ever care enough to keep such a festival going? This isn't their history or culture. And even if they did care by some bizarre chance, wouldn't it be absurd to have Chinese and North Africans dressed up like Vikings? What would be the point?

The more I dwell on it, the more moral a universal ethno-nationalist position looks. It has all the virtues that the multi-cultists claim to support. What they really advocate is a zoo where all the animals are put in one pen together, and damn the consequences.

Blogger VD April 10, 2017 5:34 AM  

A lot of people believe in race realism as much as Vox or anyone here does and reject egalitarianism while still not buying into all the positions associated with the Alt-Right.

Mostly due to their affiliations, identities, and interests. That is to be expected. There are those who are cannot see and those who are incentivized to pretend they don't see.

And, to be fair, there are those for whom seeing is simply too painful, so they quite understandably close their eyes.

Blogger Lovekraft April 10, 2017 5:59 AM  

Something tells me humanity is a long way away from overriding natural aversion to the other. We see the other with our own eyes, which relate to biology. The answer isn't islamic submission (humanity-killing authoritarianism and violence). Christianity serves as this bridge and can provide an override to the distinct obvious differences.

Followers of Jesus have a quandary, however: how to manage a state without having it's message of humility and love being warped or taken advantage of. A strong skepticism under the objective of furthering cooperation and tolerance.

Just my 2 cents.

Blogger ZhukovG April 10, 2017 6:06 AM  

Alt-Lite is a luxury of homogeneity. A Pole can be quite egalitarian in a Poland that is 96% ethnic Polish. But multiculturalism is poison to the Alt-Lite; forcing a decision.

This is where much of the battle between Alt-Right and Globalism is being fought. Forcing that often painful decision.

Blogger ZhukovG April 10, 2017 6:15 AM  

@Lovekraft: No Christianity does not override differences. A Nigerian Christian remains a Nigerian. I can love him and send aid to him while he remains in Nigeria. But if he tries to force his way into my country I am completely at peace with machine gunning him at the border.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 10, 2017 6:21 AM  

Lovekraft wrote:Something tells me humanity is a long way away from overriding natural aversion to the other. We see the other with our own eyes, which relate to biology. The answer isn't islamic submission (humanity-killing authoritarianism and violence). Christianity serves as this bridge and can provide an override to the distinct obvious differences.

Followers of Jesus have a quandary, however: how to manage a state without having it's message of humility and love being warped or taken advantage of. A strong skepticism under the objective of furthering cooperation and tolerance.

Just my 2 cents.


This is why the alt-white professes to hate Christianity so much. However, I'd argue that the smarter ones could solve this paradox if they wanted to, and that they just don't want to.

Here is the basic idea: Jesus says mutual cooperation is the best outcome in the prisoner's dilemma. Does this mean you have to cooperate while the other guy cheats? No.

Blogger Jew613 April 10, 2017 6:22 AM  

Durandel Almiras wrote:Civic Nationalist look back to the days of seeing people like Don Rickles, Johnny Carson, Dean Martin, etc. making fun of everyone and everybody laughing, and they think, "see the dream happened! We can have that again!"

They refuse to see that the fact it collapsed shows it was certainly not easily sustainable and indicates that all might not have been right. It was a mirage, a beautiful illusion perhaps, but that's all it was.


Even more so they don't understand that the USA being 85% white was what made that possible. When there is an overwhelming majority of one group its possible to tolerate various colorful minorities but only from a position of strength. By altering the demographics a tolerant society became impossible.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 10, 2017 6:25 AM  

Cucked churches obviously profess that you do, in fact, have to love muslims while they rape your daughters. This is bizarre, since we're instructed to kick brothers out of the church for a lot less. They're preaching equalist politics under Christ's banner, and if Westerners feared God in any sense we'd put them to the question.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 10, 2017 6:27 AM  

Northern Ireland, Lovecraft. A Christian will see the peace in separate states, and satan in the mongrel state.

After all, it is "render unto Caesar" not "render unto Caesar AND the Temple tax."

Blogger ZhukovG April 10, 2017 6:33 AM  

I can love a Muslim rapist and sincerely desire his salvation, but I would not hesitate to sign his death warrant.

Love and hate are not mutually exclusive. I can love and hate someone at the same time.

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 10, 2017 6:47 AM  

No you can't.

Blogger tuberman April 10, 2017 7:02 AM  

To Z-man,

Excellent post as to why civic nationalist are open to entryism....nails it.

Blogger Mark April 10, 2017 7:02 AM  

The great divide that can never be crossed, is biology.The Left embraces the blank slate and rejects biological reality. The Right accepts biology, human diversity and all the truths about the human animal that arise from it.

Yes, perhaps, but what's back of biology - a blank slate?
Too many, on both sides would proclaim, "Yes!"

Any biology that classifies human beings as "animals" has missed the boat. This evolutionary claptrap may have some of the particulars under their microscope but they have missed the Universal completely or, rather,suppress the knowledge of the First Cause.
Blank slate? NO, never. Human beings created in His image but fallen and depraved. Our institutions used to acknowledge these facts and would engineer safeguards to counteract the effects.
If the right could simply CONSERVE these revelations, it would make them stand apart from the rest of the world who advocate worship for the three commandments that Space Bunny inscribed for us with her very finger!

Blogger Stilicho April 10, 2017 7:04 AM  

On a tangential note, I've recently seen a phenomenon among leftists (coming soon to a cuckservative near you!) who state "Jared is my President". This is done due to the belief that he is one of them and the fact that he is one of (((them))) in addition to being symbolic of their struggle against reality. I expect to see it on bumper stickers soon. Quite frankly, it should be encouraged because the God Emperor does not take such acts of lese majeste well and may just reduce Kushner's role and influence in the administration if he thinks his son in law isn't discouraging such nonsense enough. Alternatively, Trump could encourage more of it to distract the left and to use it to get leftist support for specific issues that Kushner will support. Plus, it will probably distract Kushner from his efforts to get Don Jr. and Eric to sell him their birthright for a mess of pottage. Regardless, Kushner seems positioned to be the leftist/neocon/cuckservative focal point for blunting any nationalist/patriotic actions by Trump. The question is how much leeway he will be allowed by Trump.

Anonymous VFM #6306 April 10, 2017 7:07 AM  

The 16 Points do not appeal to any ideological identity, which is why the white nationalists struggle with them as much as a civic nationalist.

Blogger Cataline Sergius April 10, 2017 7:15 AM  

I'm not so sure the Left really rejects biology - they just have a different goal for it.

Quite true.

This link takes you to a ROK article on the Kendall Jenner's Pepsi commercial.
It's probably the last place you can find a link to that disastrous ad.

Watching Kendall Jenner whipping off her blonde wig is hilarious. It all but screams, "BEHOLD! I AM CURED OF MY WHITENESS!! I AM NOT WHITE ANYMORE! LOOKIE EVERYBODY!! LOOOOOKIE!!!"

Blogger MrPaules April 10, 2017 7:18 AM  

Egalitarianism is a byproduct of altruism. When I traveled the world as a young man, I always treated other men with dignity whatever their station in life. What shocked me out of my altruism was that my attitudes were never reciprocated. Indeed, my good will was always taken advantage of. Today I offer my good will to those who respond in kind. To the others only suspicion until proved otherwise.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 7:22 AM  

I think this is largely true, though there is an unfortunate corollary. This is that the alt-right doesn't have much in the way of defense against the alt-nazis.

@23: Given that Number 14 _is_ the 14 words (knowingly, consciously, deliberately I am sure), the same 14 found in 14/88*, there is an ideological component to them.

*how do I know about 14/88? The company I was an enlisted man in, Jan 1975- Dec 76, had organized, chartered, dues paying, membership drive holding chapters of the Klan, the Panthers, and the ANSP. The chief mover of the ANSP was an otherwise nice Jewish kid named Horowitz who happened to detest blacks.

@22: Stil, I've been wondering for a while if Trump isn't grooming Ivanka to be his successor.

@18: For rape, death by impalement.

Blogger VD April 10, 2017 7:27 AM  

This is that the alt-right doesn't have much in the way of defense against the alt-nazis.

Sure we do. First, National Socialism is dead. Second, the government ownership of the means of production flies completely in the face of economic reality.

The reason the Swastika Panties hate the 16 Points version of the Alt-Right is because it renders them irrelevant and their expanded program moot.

Blogger The Social Pathologist April 10, 2017 7:32 AM  

@13 That is correct.

Kumbayah Christianity is a recent phenomenon. For roughly one thousand years the Church saw no problem with repelling Muslim invaders.

Anonymous Walter Oleg April 10, 2017 7:32 AM  

People need to test Alt-lighters on the question of freedom of association.As far as I'm concerned, non-Whites can be on our side if they support our right to exclude them from our own spaces and institutions. Does Gavin McInness support freedom of association? Freedom of association should be the "firewall" or acid test for the Alt-Light.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 7:33 AM  

Alt-Nazis are a philosophical tendency, not just people who dress up in unearned uniforms and decorations, and address each other as "Herr Obergruppenfuehrer" in their [basement] mass rallies. The appearance of the thing doesn't matter much, not nearly as much as the philosophical underpinning.

Blogger MrPaules April 10, 2017 7:53 AM  

Nazism was based at least in part on the myth of German racial superiority. The Germans are not a race. Nor are they "Aryan."

Nazis believed in German cultural superiority. While the Germans contributed much to Western Civilization, they neglected to acknowledge their contributions were but one part of a much larger whole.

Nazism was a form of jingoism used to justify the conquest and domination of neighboring regions. Germany simply lacked the resources to accomplish anything remotely so ambitious.

LARPing Nazis can and should be dismissed out of hand.

Blogger YIH April 10, 2017 8:00 AM  

hornofthemark wrote:It's the belief that race and culture are completely independent that they have to get over. Aside from the fact that they're interdependent factors, what kind of person can really abandon their native culture entirely?
Z-Man pointed out how it works: Biology [race]-> Culture -> Politics -> Economics. It’s why imposing Western institutions on Africa failed. The people and their culture were not built for Western politics. That's why 'libertarianism' fails: Libertarians also make the same mistake as liberals with regards to the chain of causality. They think it is Economics -> Politics -> Culture
The point is libertarianism, at least the current manifestation of it, gets the chain of causality wrong. Remove the state from Detroit and you are not getting the libertarian paradise you imagine. You get Lagos, [Nigeria] if you are lucky.
Anarchic Somalia would also fit that description.
The other problem with 'Alt-Lite' is ''the JQ'' (which they deny or avoid) namely, Jews (race/religion/culture) are incompatible with Anglo (Western) society. Namely because of it's 'low trust' nature.

Anonymous chedolf April 10, 2017 8:11 AM  

Steve Sailer: "We're supposed to celebrate diversity, but not notice it."

Blogger Samuel Nock April 10, 2017 8:17 AM  

As a matter of taxonomy, I've been saying for a while that Alt Lite is better termed Alt Left.

The defining issue dividing left from right is that of equality. Alt Lite rejects the idea of human inequality, and is a segment of the left. They reject the totalitarian and SJW left. But Alt Lite (as with Buckleyite Right) is ultimately Leftist in its assumptions.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 10, 2017 8:20 AM  

Just ask the alt-liters if they can prove the Blank Slate. If they are honest they will just tell you its faith.

Blogger tz April 10, 2017 8:21 AM  

I think part of the problem is the civic Nationalists see Oprah, Ben Carson, and Morgan Freeman, but never a livestream from the inner city like that retarded boy that was abused.

NAxALT is the wrong response. The correct one is What percentage of x are like that. And the corollary - can it be changed and what would it take? Before the civil rights movement, black families were stable. Now that is the exception.

Do you take children away from unwed mothers if that is required?

White women are rejecting motherhood. Their biology hasn't changed.

Culture and environment are what biology has to adapt to if it can. Some thrive, some adapt, some don't. But you can't have multi-culture. Both high and low time preferences, high and low trust. They can't coexist.

And that is where the choice will have to be made.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 10, 2017 8:22 AM  

"Equality" is just political rhetoric, sometimes for good, often enough for the nefarious.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 8:24 AM  

@35

Do any of the alt-light actually believe in the blank slate, MM? Blank slate is at the very core of hard left.

Blogger YIH April 10, 2017 8:24 AM  

ZhukovG wrote:@Lovekraft: No Christianity does not override differences. A Nigerian Christian remains a Nigerian. I can love him and send aid to him while he remains in Nigeria. But if he tries to force his way into my country I am completely at peace with machine gunning him at the border.


Two excellent examples: Haiti and Mexico's Santa Muerte ''Saint Death''. You tell me what this is.

OpenID paworldandtimes April 10, 2017 8:26 AM  

Multicultural/multiracial plurality does not work unless each culture/race has its own enclave and there are sundown laws.

Asymmetrical Multiculturalism is based on a host-parasite relationship. NAxLT is niggling over how much parasitism is OK.

PA

Blogger Dexter April 10, 2017 8:27 AM  

So this is the US Admiral who commands in the Med:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/09/18/3F1B849200000578-4395398-image-a-6_1491759046006.jpg

The US Navy has turned into a total fucking joke.

Every line in her resume is "the first African American woman who..."

Affirmative Action Admirals, yay!

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 10, 2017 8:28 AM  

@YIH

There's an old saying: markets mate opinions.

There's some truth in it. But cultures make markets, and even while there may be a feedback loop, feedback is usually a portion of the original signal, making it clear which is primary and which is secondary.

Blogger Dexter April 10, 2017 8:28 AM  

I'm not so sure the Left really rejects biology - they just have a different goal for it.

Specifically, the destruction of YOU, whitey.

Anonymous Rocklea April 10, 2017 8:28 AM  

Culture tech is interesting.

When I was in primary school, we'd have morning assembly, sing God Save The Queen and Advance Australia Fare, and then the Principal would ramble and we'd head off to class.

About halfway through primary school, we started having Multi Cultural days. We had 500+ pupils, two of which were German, one Chinese, one Islander. It was preparing the way. UNESCO.

On one of these Multi Culti days mum dressed me up as A Hab the A Rab. It was basically an elaborate sheet and a cardboard scimitar covered in tin foil. Of course, now that all these cultures are here, nobody needs to dress up. That would be Cultural Appropriation. Wrong think.

UNESCO Culture Tech=Liberal Secularism
Liberal Secularism=Anti White
Liberal Secularism is a suicidal death cult

Isis Culture Tech is strong, safe zones are along shot

Alt-Right Culture Tech is strong, they have to go back

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 10, 2017 8:28 AM  

Sorry; markets MAKE opinions.

Blogger Koanic April 10, 2017 8:30 AM  

I always thought it was HIV.

Blogger ZhukovG April 10, 2017 8:30 AM  

@Tom Kratman: The Alt-Lite may articulate disbelief in 'Blank Slate'. But, in my experience, they tend to act as though it is true.

Blogger MrPaules April 10, 2017 8:35 AM  

@36

"Do we take children away from unwed mothers?"

No, we enforce a form of benign eugenics on anyone receiving public welfare. Mandatory contraception after the first child. You cut the problem in half after one generation. Half again after two generations. Eventually the problem disappears altogether.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 10, 2017 8:40 AM  

I've read a billion words dealing with HBD, I have yet to see any of these intellectuals actually ask their opposites if they really believe in the Blank Slate and if so to prove its truth. Our side greatly fears asking any questions therefor we ensconce leftist authority, much easier to preach to the choir.

IMO only the obviously mentally and emotionally damaged believe in the Blank Slate Theory, or the childlike.

"Gavin M do you believe in the Blank Slate Theory?"

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 8:40 AM  

@13

One of the problems with American blacks, inflicted on them by the left, is that when their communities were ruined, their natural leadership stolen by us, their schools subjected to lefty notions about discipline, etc.,etc. et-fucking-cetera, the justice system also worked to create a shortfall in men, which put black women in the kind of competition that leads to preposterous levels of illegitimate births, without decent male leadership/fatherhood, and encouraged by the welfare state. (Those are just some of the low points. It is actually more complex and worse than that.)

Were we to do the right and proper thing, which is to say, put to death all common law felons over the age of 11 or 12, which would involve a huge percentage of black males, the shortage would be even worse, which would continue and make worse the ruinous spiral liberalism inflicted on blacks.

There are, in Africa, more capable and less capable tribes. Among the former are the Igbo, Zulu, Ndebele, and Ethiopian, among which very large numbers of Christians can be found. I would suggest that we and they would be better off by importing substantial numbers of the better of those, after executing the worst of ours, and allowing the replacements free hands in disciplining black women and girls ruined by liberalism.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 8:43 AM  

@47

Are they acting as if it's blank or as if it is not entirely written over? It makes a big difference.

Blogger Tom April 10, 2017 8:44 AM  

alt liter's are sliding down the mountain side of reality kicking their heels in the dirt to slow the descent..relaax, tuck and roll into the reality and respond accordingly.

Anonymous Rocklea April 10, 2017 8:46 AM  

Yes I know it's Advance Australia Fair*
But I'm changing it to Fare, it's better to pay your own way.

Blogger Mr.MantraMan April 10, 2017 8:47 AM  

As for Vox mentioning that the left is intellectually incoherent, obviously the Left has blown right past ideology, basically its down to cruel women and cruel womanish men inflicting injury upon the weak cuckish conservative political players and the powerless.

Quoting Enlightenment philosophers back at these cruelty artists is completely useless, now the lingua franca is isms, ists and phobias, total psychobabble that women thrive upon.

More Chateau Heartiste much less George Will

Blogger YIH April 10, 2017 8:50 AM  

Dexter wrote:So this is the US Admiral who commands in the Med:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/09/18/3F1B849200000578-4395398-image-a-6_1491759046006.jpg

The US Navy has turned into a total fucking joke.

Every line in her resume is "the first African American woman who..."

Affirmative Action Admirals, yay!

Aw jeez, that's sure confidence-inspiring (sarc). How many of those ribbons are the military's equivalent of the ''participation trophy''?

Blogger Cail Corishev April 10, 2017 8:54 AM  

The way we've been putting it is that they'd rather shoot right than left, but his "firewall" analogy might be even better. They don't necessarily seek to shoot right, but their biggest fear is that they will be associated with those on their right. ("What do you say about so-and-so in your group saying such-and-such about Jews/gays/women?") Call them Marxists and they'd just say that's stupid; call them Nazis and they go into crisis mode.

Unfortunately, when challenged by the left, they may feel a need to take a few shots rightward, to show where their firewall is.

Blogger ZhukovG April 10, 2017 8:57 AM  

@Tom Kratman: The 'Blank Slate' is, even for its believers, a generality. I have never met, even a hard Leftist, who subscribed to a pure 'Blank Slate'. Most Leftists I have encountered will wax poetic about all the positive traits inherent in any identity group except White people.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 9:01 AM  

Z, I think some lefties _do_ believe it. But whether they do or not, the degree of area or the slate left to be written on still matters.

Blogger Michael Neal April 10, 2017 9:03 AM  

Globalists are building a case to go to war with Russia. Not one mention in this article that the Chechnyans are Muslims, just that they are allies of Putin. This is an anti-Russia hit piece.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4397118/Chechnya-opens-concentration-camp-homosexuals.html

Anonymous Rocklea April 10, 2017 9:06 AM  

@57 ZhukovG:
"The 'Blank Slate' is, even for its believers, a generality. I have never met, even a hard Leftist, who subscribed to a pure 'Blank Slate'. Most Leftists I have encountered will wax poetic about all the positive traits inherent in any identity group except White people."

I don't know about you, but mine, was a privileged blank slate.

Blogger MrPaules April 10, 2017 9:08 AM  

@54

It's not cruelty that motivates them, but greed. Every gambit is a justification to get into your bank account. MY needs (or the needs of my surrogates) demand YOUR sacrifice. It's just thievery dressed in the robes of moral exhibitionism.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 9:33 AM  

@50 Or we could work a deal with Ethiopia and send our best to them and kill the ones not worth sending. Win-win and we don't have to import more folks from Africa.

Even the Chinese got it right. They are sending more to Africa than they are importing.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 10, 2017 9:36 AM  

This is why the alt-white professes to hate Christianity so much.

Part of the problem is simple historical ignorance. How often do we see people claim that there's a contradiction between Christianity and things like borders, nations, and national defense? You can't believe that unless your image of Christianity is entirely post-1960. But that's the case for many people, who believe Christianity is (or has permanently become) about getting along with everyone and being nice, with events like the Crusades being non-Christian exceptions or something we've grown out of.

It's not really their fault; the truth has been scrubbed from the history books, and even most churches don't teach it anymore. But even a cursory knowlege of the history of Christendom would reassure people that it's quite possible to be Christian and nationalist, for Christian nations to have strong borders and limits on things like other religions within them, and for Christians to resort to violence when necessary to protect those things.

Not only are those things possible in Christendom, but they may be necessary to sustain it. The modern version of so-called Christianity can't protect itself, and can't propagate itself except by finding new converts in Africa and Asia to replace the ones it's driving away. What will it do when it runs out of new populations?

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 9:39 AM  

@58 & @57 - My own experience in talking about such matters with others is that on some level, people buy into a form of blank slate-ism. The best one is excusing differences on "not enough money spent", "colonialism" "muh oppression" etc. but said opposition has no answers for how long can colonialisms shadow be abused for why so many African nations are failed states and the ones that aren't are barely functional. Or why the Chinese kids do well in school and we don't spend any money on them. Etc. Etc.

If a positive trait is readily apparent, people are happy to attribute it. If a negative is apparent, the blank-slaters try to find any excuse but biological differences to explain the negative trait's existence.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 9:42 AM  

@63 Cail - this reminds me of when I was leaving atheism and coming to the Catholic Church. During that transition I was given the Catholicism series set by Robert Barron. During one of the videos, Barron doesn't talk about Augustine or Aquinas when it comes to conflict and war, instead he focuses on Dorothy Day and Gandhi.

Gandhi.

Anonymous RabidRatel April 10, 2017 9:43 AM  

Tom wrote:alt liter's

alt litter's - fixed :)

Blogger dc.sunsets April 10, 2017 9:52 AM  

Massive trends, like supertankers, turn slowly--degree by degree. When the new course is set, recent experiences will be reframed and drive social action.

Right now, Sudden Jihadi Syndrome and epidemic black/brown violent crime (esp black-on-white) is framed as NAMALT or NABALT.

This will be reframed to some version of: "If even a FEW _____ are like that, I'm taking no chances (with the lives of MY children, MY women, etc.)"

Eugenics and population control are going to make a HUGE comeback, like it or not.

Biological denialists are on the wrong side of REALITY.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 9:55 AM  

You do see the difference, though, do you not, Durandel, between the observations that liberalism can take a potentially decent kid and ruin the little bastard, which is clearly true, or that there are some areas, no doubt limited, where culture and education do have an effect (which can be negative or positive)? This seems to me only reasonable, whereas the notion that nurture can make anything of anyone is simply preposterous.

I had cause to write recently that the alt-right seems to have a tendency of assuming that the opposites of a given kind of idiocy and insanity are of necessity wise and sane, not recognizing that any extreme position, any position that is far from reality, is likely to be both insane and idiotic.

Blogger Koanic April 10, 2017 9:56 AM  

Blank Slate means removing all non-whites from North America, right?

Sounds scientifically sound.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 9:56 AM  

"Biological denialists are on the wrong side of REALITY."

They are, but then so are people who expect more from biology than it's going to give.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 9:57 AM  

@69

No, I think it refers to the program our ancestors began of exterminating neanderthals.

Anonymous HYT April 10, 2017 10:00 AM  

" I've yet to see the civic nationalist who can even begin to defend himself against the growing quantity of conclusive nationalist arguments,"

An interesting place to begin is to ask, is there any one idea that more than any other motivated those who chose to emigrate to the United States over the past 150 years?

Anonymous Grayman April 10, 2017 10:00 AM  

DC

Some form of eugenics makes logical sense. The general assumption by most that the human species is destined to continually progress in intelligence and positive traits towards the great "star trek" utopia is astoundingly ignorant. As a species we could just as easily regress as we can progress.

Anonymous Rocklea April 10, 2017 10:00 AM  

@64 Durandel Almiras:
"If a positive trait is readily apparent, people are happy to attribute it. If a negative is apparent, the blank-slaters try to find any excuse but biological differences to explain the negative trait's existence."

This conversation for me generally goes along the lines of IQ and income disparities, crime stats etc.
People will say, "But IQ doesn't matter, it's poverty and culture."
Me, "Great, let's say IQ is irrelevant. What are you going to do about their culture? And how well will that go down?"
Crickets... actually no, not crickets, at that point they generally agree with me. But that is in the moment, soon forgotten no doubt, though a small seed planted for germination.

Blogger YIH April 10, 2017 10:02 AM  

Durandel Almiras wrote:@50 Or we could work a deal with Ethiopia and send our best to them and kill the ones not worth sending. Win-win and we don't have to import more folks from Africa.

Even the Chinese got it right. They are sending more to Africa than they are importing.

Or, instead of sentencing Shitavious to 15-to-life in a US prison, sentence it to 15-to-life in Africa. Give 'em a couple of grand US$ to get them started in their natural habitat.
''They won't take 'em!'' you say? Once Shitavious is there bribe an official or two as necessary, it's typically the way to get anything past the bureaucracy of [African country].

Anonymous Athor Pel April 10, 2017 10:04 AM  

I reread Diamond Age the other day. In it Stephenson has characters make the case that culture matters. Then they denigrate the biological/genetic connection to culture, saying it has more to do with education than heredity.

Mr. Stephenson creates a very plausible self-selected tribe based future society built from the ground up on freedom of association and acknowledgement that some cultures are superior to others then has his characters disavow the biological basis for cultural difference. He shows his young characters being molded through education to demonstrate the point.

While at the same time the larger society, the rest of the world, demonstrates the opposite, genes matter.

So yeah, very possible to be red pill aware and still not get past nurture over nature and therefore civic nationalism. I see it as a white person blind spot. White folks overcome poor starts in life just by choosing to do so, most choose to be productive members of society. They therefore assume most everyone else is able to do the same.

Anonymous Carlos Danger April 10, 2017 10:05 AM  

Multicultural/multiracial plurality does not work unless each culture/race has its own enclave and there are sundown laws.

Asymmetrical Multiculturalism is based on a host-parasite relationship. NAxLT is niggling over how much parasitism is OK.

That is not a hard and fast rule. Our pre 1965 laws were good. Some cultures are very compatible and get along fine without external pressures goading them to war. Most European wars have been instigated by the central banking cabal over the last 400 years. The real problem in the US has been the importation of incompatible cultures. All European heritage immigration would work out well and be a net benefit to the US. Before you say if undermines families in Europe, I remind you most European women don't even consider children and only at age 35 if they do. How many European young people languish away during their productive years on unemployment of in 7 year university degree programs? That is a deeper problem. We could put those same unemployed youth to good employment but we import curry monkeys instead to destroy our genetic heritage.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 10:05 AM  

"I've yet to see the civic nationalist who can even begin to defend himself against the growing quantity of conclusive nationalist arguments, and yet, many of them cling to their civic nationalism all the same."

Perhaps you should read more broadly.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 10, 2017 10:08 AM  

I do not think full reframing and public policy inversion are likely under such a centralized system.

The central government's ineptitude (and contributory malfeasance) will be revealed when the current boom turns bust.

Local decisions about "immigration" and desegregation will likely become very, very personal, esp. if one of the first things to go is Uncle Sammy's Free Lunches for Losers (EBT/LINK.)

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 10:10 AM  

"But IQ doesn't matter, it's poverty and culture."

_Intelligence_ matters. How well IQ measures that is open to some degree of doubt.

Anonymous Athor Pel April 10, 2017 10:11 AM  

"16. Blogger Aeoli Pera April 10, 2017 6:25 AM
Cucked churches obviously profess that you do, in fact, have to love muslims while they rape your daughters. ...
"


They obviously do not love their daughters. Nor do they love the muslims because they excuse their sin which ensures the muslim's damnation.

As far as their daughters go I'd put money on an unspoken thought in those churchian father's minds, "What's one more dick?"

Anonymous BbigGayKoranBurner April 10, 2017 10:11 AM  

Of course, the Alt-Lite makes no attempt to reject these as that would get them in trouble with the Left

Boy scouts won the supreme court in 2000 but 1K+ jewish lawyers forced them to take trannys by 2017

The Left embraces the blank slate and rejects biological reality. The Right accepts biology, human diversity and all the truths

They really do think that if Latrina squatted out her 21 crackbabies into a rice paddy they would have the same chance at getting a perfect math SAT as Asian boys.

I'm not so sure the Left really rejects biology - they just have a different goal for it.

Ugly girls want to import 3rd world rape culture to attack the pretty girls for them.

Alt-Lite is a luxury of homogeneity. A Pole can be quite egalitarian in a Poland that is 96%

One of the biggest malpractice cases I heard of involved a mammography which is as white a profession as possible, but disparate impact took the form of the one scheduled to come in 30 min early to do 5 min of QA since their machines had to warm up(plumb job as the one that does it gets out 30 min early). She was caught faking the 5 min of QA because she put the same temperature down to the decimal place on the QA records for about a year forcing everyone that got a mammo at that hospital during that time to get them redone. Corruption to the point of not doing 5 min of the most important work of the day.

1.Celebrate Diversity!2.We are all the same!3.Cultural appropriation is wrong!

Leftists are more likely to get a Pinochet reference than figure out there is inconsistency

Alt-Nazis are a philosophical tendency, not just people who dress up in unearned uniforms and decorations, and address each other as "Herr Obergruppenfuehrer" in their [basement] mass rallies.

What about those of us that look good in Hugo Boss?

The chief mover of the ANSP was an otherwise nice Jewish kid named Horowitz who happened to detest blacks

Ok I guess if I can use numbers higher than 21(from a NJ newspaper clipping) for latrina's crack babies I guess I can't complain about you claiming a jewish kid named Whoreowitz served in the military as enlisted.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 10:16 AM  

MOS 11C, Steve. There have always been some Jews voluntarily enlisted in the US Military. Huge numbers? No. But there are always a few.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 10, 2017 10:20 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 10, 2017 10:23 AM  

The same person who insists that documented liars be believed when it comes to "climate change" also insists that dramatic black over-representation in commission of violent crime (far more easily documented and anecdotally obvious than any notion of Earth's mean surface temperature) is a fabrication.

Ditto nearly a century of formal IQ testing. It really redefines the term "science denier."

This is a stark reminder that each of us arrives at a worldview via processes that precede conscious thought. Just as a heroin addict rationalizes smoking dope that just might kill him then and there, biology denialists are impelled to shout down whatever body of data falsifies their pre-cognitive biases.

This is why people don't learn from argumentation and debate. Their rational mind isn't entertaining a new argument, it's simply finding new ways to rationalize old beliefs regardless of fact.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 10, 2017 10:31 AM  

As far as their daughters go I'd put money on an unspoken thought in those churchian father's minds, "What's one more dick?"

I was thinking something similar yesterday. They may not think it in precisely those terms, but in a society where sex is devalued and used as sport, and virginity is seen as a worthless hangup to discard as soon as possible, is it that surprising if people don't see rape as something to risk your life to prevent? It's just one sex act. Sure, it's unwanted, but many women would rationalize that they've had unwanted sex for other reasons -- got too drunk, wanted to get back at a guy, married him for money, etc. -- and they got over it. If sex is just currency, something to share with others for enjoyment or to get something, then rape is just being robbed. Unpleasant, but nothing to die over.

We've come a long way from Lucretia.

Anonymous Rocklea April 10, 2017 10:31 AM  

@80 Tom Kratman:
"_Intelligence_ matters. How well IQ measures that is open to some degree of doubt."

I'll leave that to the experts and just focus on correlation, otherwise 'muh privilege' entryism; and besides IQ or intelligence differences are not my fault. They just are.

Blogger praetorian April 10, 2017 10:37 AM  

This is why people don't learn from argumentation and debate. Their rational mind isn't entertaining a new argument, it's simply finding new ways to rationalize old beliefs regardless of fact.

The hysterically funny aspect of this whole situation is that the left, by denying biology and embracing multiculturalism, denies itself the only possible route to what it professes to want. Socialism, of varying degrees, can work in racially and culturally homogenous societies of sufficiently high IQ (necessary, not sufficient.)

Multicultural idiocracy is no way to go through life.

Facing the Scylla of genetics and the Charybdis of culture, the left decided, out of fairness, to cut the ship in two and send one half to each.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 10, 2017 10:39 AM  

@73 Grayman As a species we could just as easily regress as we can progress.

"could?" I know you and I agree that "Idiocracy is a documentary," emphasis on the present tense.

Humanity is coasting to an apogee on the rising hydrogen of the greatest debt bubble in recorded history. Anyone have a match?

Malthus looks set to have his day, once the social mood driven feeling of limitlessness finally ends and every place on Earth has its Icarus Moment.

We face imminent entry into a world seething with terrors over overpopulation (esp. of useless mouths to feed), resource depletion, nuclear power poisoning (Fukushima will become a Big Thing), water shortage, enstupidation and among it all, fear-of-the-other.

We face a return to the worries of the 1970's, raised to a large exponent.

Blogger Dexter April 10, 2017 10:41 AM  

in a society where sex is devalued and used as sport, and virginity is seen as a worthless hangup to discard as soon as possible, is it that surprising if people don't see rape as something to risk your life to prevent? It's just one sex act. Sure, it's unwanted,

Take the United Airlines approach: offer women money to have sex with you, and if none volunteer, then randomly choose one and force her to "volunteer".

Blogger VD April 10, 2017 10:41 AM  

Perhaps you should read more broadly.

I'll happily debate any civic nationalist on the issue. Ask Ivan Throne how the last one went.

Most civic nationalists simply aren't equipped to have their ideas questioned at all. Most of them don't even know that their version of American history is a revisionist 20th century version.

Blogger Dexter April 10, 2017 10:46 AM  

On one of these Multi Culti days mum dressed me up as A Hab the A Rab. It was basically an elaborate sheet and a cardboard scimitar covered in tin foil. Of course, now that all these cultures are here, nobody needs to dress up. That would be Cultural Appropriation. Wrong think.

Heh I can still remember my 3rd grade class play where I had to dress up as Pablo the Mexican Boy and talk about leading my donkey to work every day. Heartwarmingly raciss in retrospect!

Blogger dc.sunsets April 10, 2017 10:46 AM  

@86 If sex is just currency, something to share with others for enjoyment or to get something, then rape is just being robbed. Unpleasant, but nothing to die over.

You nailed it. If sex is divorced from producing babies and deepening marital devotion, then abortion-as-birth-control, rape-as-robbery, gay marriage, low-priority nurture of children and meaninglessly shallow relationships follow as night follows day.

Sex, it turns out, is everything. Just as any biologist would say in this context. Corrupt sex, corrupt everything.

Blogger Robert Divinity April 10, 2017 10:56 AM  

23:

The 16 Points do not appeal to any ideological identity, which is why the white nationalists struggle with them as much as a civic nationalist.

Some of the smarter Alt-White types will peel off and become part of the Alt-Right, too. As horribly flawed as their belief system is, it was the only one available until recently that didn't require de facto surrender to the Left/communists.

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 10:58 AM  

@6 "A lot of people believe in race realism as much as Vox or anyone here does and reject egalitarianism while still not buying into all the positions associated with the Alt-Right."

I have a girlfriend (wife of my now awakened and armed MAN friend) who has 100% "race realism" for the (not a race) moslems -- and would happily round them all up and send hem back. She still can't get over 'racism towards blacks' is bad... Still.... working on her. (At least she grabs her 13-yr-old blonde daughter and rushes her to the car when packs of them are around.)

Anonymous Canada Is Cucked April 10, 2017 10:59 AM  

There is nothing better in life than someone lecturing about the virtues of civic nationalism from rural Vermont.

Blogger tz April 10, 2017 11:02 AM  

Worse, not a blaank slate, but a completely mutable one.
Tom Woods discussed Tom Sowell Conflict of Visions.
Lysenkoism never died.
Created equal, maybe at the point of conception. But by the time they can understand, it will be hard to change, much less Adults.

Libertarians seem to think just removing regs will fix things. Detroit can't enforce cars having license plates yet it isn't Galt's gulch. I haven't heard civic nationalists propose a solution. 80% plus out of wedlock births for a generation?

The final problem is whites can't keep supporting three families, theirs, a welfare citizen's, and an illegal's. As Molyneux points out, this is dysgenic. Natural eugenics is for the successful to have more kids and the poor, especially the unmarried not to have any. We have it backward.

Blogger JimR April 10, 2017 11:03 AM  

@68 Tom Kratman

Nature provides the raw materials, (along with the limitations of same) and nurture can refine that to a point. But biology trumps training.

Anonymous BBGKB April 10, 2017 11:03 AM  

Tom Kratman:"_Intelligence_ matters. How well IQ measures that is open to some degree of doubt."

We can put a man on the moon but no one can come up with any objective standard other than Asian>White>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brown>>>>>>>>>>>Black or it's reverse for IQ,Crime, or any measure. The only thing I have ever seen that breaks it is that Allopurinol has significant side effects for both Asians and blacks. Jews jewed the safer cheaper alternative (Colchicine) in the US, taking it from dirt cheap to hundreds of $$ per month.
http://www.the-rheumatologist.org/article/blacks-asians-higher-risk-allopurinol-related-skin-reactions/

Humanity is coasting to an apogee on the rising hydrogen of the greatest debt bubble in recorded history. Anyone have a match?

Would a burning koran suffice? See my survival video on how to start a fire with just potassium permanganate, bacon grease, & a koran.

Anonymous Rocklea April 10, 2017 11:07 AM  

@92 Dexter:
"Heh I can still remember my 3rd grade class play where I had to dress up as Pablo the Mexican Boy and talk about leading my donkey to work every day. Heartwarmingly raciss in retrospect!"

They are nice memories, and that was the point. Culture jacked. Now 'over there' is here. But it's juxtaposed through little me's filter. Vox is right, future generations will be frightening to our eyes.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl April 10, 2017 11:11 AM  

As has been said here, many of the Alt-Lite have the right core philosophies/empathies, but they've lived in bubbles, largely, and lack the experience many of the Alt-Right have.

McInnes, for example, seems to veer more Alt-Right overall, but still maintains that "civic" side to him - and why shouldn't he, in many ways? He didn't grow up by the bombed out ghettoes in the Rust Belt or live near the many 'hoods that dot the US.

Take any alt-liter, throw them into Gary, IN or St. Paul, MN for a month or two...or a weekend...and let's see how they feel after that.

On the corollary regarding the Alt-Nazis - Hitlerism really is the political philosophy of the Modern Left, just with a different race as the "chosen" people. Had Hitler been born in the 1960s, he'd have been an Art Professor and somehow finagled his way into the EU parliament.

Blogger DemonicProfessorEl April 10, 2017 11:13 AM  

@99 BBGKB

"Would a burning koran suffice? See my survival video on how to start a fire with just potassium permanganate, bacon grease, & a koran."

Naturally, of course. Practical and symbolic in one move!

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 11:20 AM  

@68 Tom Kratman:

You do see the difference, though, do you not, Durandel, between the observations that liberalism can take a potentially decent kid and ruin the little bastard, which is clearly true, or that there are some areas, no doubt limited, where culture and education do have an effect (which can be negative or positive)? This seems to me only reasonable, whereas the notion that nurture can make anything of anyone is simply preposterous.

Agreed Tom. I don't know many except the some Alt-White who go the other extreme and completely ignore that environment is also a factor in certain cases. What doesn't help though is the research of the last few decades, especially twin adoption studies and racial adoption studies keep showing environment as almost near zero in what they are measuring (behaviors and habits), but environment must be hidden in some way. Perhaps a bright kid will also do well to a degree, just his "well" will be different by having a stable and happy family verses a broken one, and growing up in a 3rd world crud hole verses say Canada.

The stats on blacks prior to Johnson's war on poverty and after clearly show how Liberalism can destroy the upward trend of a people and reverse it.

I had cause to write recently that the alt-right seems to have a tendency of assuming that the opposites of a given kind of idiocy and insanity are of necessity wise and sane, not recognizing that any extreme position, any position that is far from reality, is likely to be both insane and idiotic.

Vox has MPAI, I have my own rule about human behavior that isn't nearly as succinct or catchy (edits welcome) that is MPGTE: Most People Gravitate Towards Extremes. Using Aristotle's idea that in many cases, the virtue is the middle point between the extremes of two good behaviors that go bad in excess, it always seems that corrections in society swing from one extreme to the other rather than hitting the happy middle. You're likely seeing that effect in the dialogue online as the group hopefully works its way to the virtuous position.

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 11:21 AM  

@9 "It's the belief that race and culture are completely independent that they have to get over. Aside from the fact that they're interdependent factors, what kind of person can really abandon their native culture entirely?"

I find a helpful 'seed' to plant (esp. for believers in evolution!) is to point out that all our (ancestral) tribes did certain things: prepared and stored food for the winter, disapproved and spoke ill of males who would not fight for their people, that sort of thing.

So, the member of the tribe who DID or didn't do those things, those CULTURAL things, that the tribe preferred (or required or found anathema) -- couldn't get mates, and their genes died out. Thus, over time, over generations: CULTURE becomes GENETIC! (Rhetoric)

You don't have to get into (Dialectic) alleles; and how everything seems to have a genetic basis; and here's this or that genetic effect on this or that (apparently cultural) behavior or preference; nor into twin studies nor monozygotes and heterozygotes; and and and....

The most basic "evolution" concepts have been implanted in nearly all Whites: they cannot help but understand how breeding-in or breeding-out some cultural system will end up 'put into' the genetic structure of a tribe, a race, a nation.

And if they claim they DON'T understand, throw it to the dogs: surely they cannot HELP but see that German Shepherds have been bred for thousands of generations to be great protectors; and Jack Russells to "automatically" and precisely bite the necks of and kill rats; and various setters to see game and freeze' and pit bulls to fight and bite harder than any other breed of dogs; and Aussies and heelers and Corgis (3 VERY different dog races) to herd anything and everything including ducks and children -- but the Komondor and Great Pyrenees have NO desire or skill to herd sheep, they live WITHIN the sheep herd as a sheep and only attack predators..

Those are "cultural" predilections of the various dog breeds (races of dogs!) that have been BRED INTO those genetic-tribes of dogs! You CAN teach almost any dog to do *consciously* what the race-of-dog bred for it does instinctively; but they won't be as good -- and it won't be something THEY start doing as puppies!

So, too, in humans.

Blogger Jose Coces April 10, 2017 11:23 AM  

Thats just not true. What makes the right and left different is the belief in the perfectibility of man and lack of belief in transcendence. Read tour Voegelin, read your Strauss, read your Kirk.

Also, racialist ideas were first invented by the left.

Blogger praetorian April 10, 2017 11:27 AM  

Corrupt sex, corrupt everything.

See (((Wilhelm Reich))).

https://redice.tv/red-ice-radio/libido-dominandi-sexual-liberation-and-political-control

Blogger Resident Moron™ April 10, 2017 11:31 AM  

"I had cause to write recently that the alt-right seems to have a tendency of assuming that the opposites of a given kind of idiocy and insanity are of necessity wise and sane, not recognizing that any extreme position, any position that is far from reality, is likely to be both insane and idiotic."

It's not an altRight tendency so much as a human tendency, to think is simplistically false binaries. And to refuse to recognize when our preferred mode is so inapt to the problem that applying it is leading us astray.

Some things really are black and white, some really aren't.

Genetics, for example, is about the mixing of probability distributions, but most people have been conditioned to to think about it as merely a very complex piece of machinery with highly deterministic products.

As above, there ARE deterministic aspects, but these typically only hold for large sample sizes.

So altRighters talk about races when we talk about HBD, not individuals.

Even a population with a mean IQ of 80 in a total of a billion people, has a large number of very clever people. They may not be enough to sustain a high culture against the much higher numbers of the kess clever but just knowing the mean IQ of their race doesn't tell you anything about the genetic limits of the individual.

That's why culture is so critical and why we're obliged to rebuild ours and its defenses.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 11:32 AM  

@80 Tom Kratman:

"But IQ doesn't matter, it's poverty and culture."

_Intelligence_ matters. How well IQ measures that is open to some degree of doubt.


What the test's measure or don't doesn't matter. Global IQ averages do have concrete connections to civilizational outcomes. You need about an average national IQ of 100 as compared to the globe's population, to maintain a Western style and level of civilization. 90 is the bottom limit for a semi-functional democracy. Lower than that is failed state.

Blogger Francis Parker Yockey April 10, 2017 11:35 AM  

"The defect with the Alt-Lite is the same problem the Buckley Conservatives had a generation ago. They have no antibodies to resist entryism."

Buckley's problem was not so much entryism as that he was controlled opposition from the start, as was the leadership of the Birchers. Revilo Oliver is good on this topic. For the rank and file of a movement like that, of course, it makes little difference which of these is the case. For them, it is the lack of antibodies (or inability to see, and react to, the red flags) that is the problem. James Burnham was a much more interesting (and intellectually complex) figure than WFB.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 11:35 AM  

@104 - Using dog breeds to explain the concepts has worked for me in the past. At least with urban elves. Horse breeds and cow breeds are too far removed from their experience for many of them to grasp.

I still find that there is a gap though. You get them to see your point, and then 30 minutes later, they forget it and reset. Even when using rhetoric in personal conversations I find I only get the wheels turning in about 20% of those I talk to. There really is a mechanism that gets people to revert to a position because it is beneficial for them in some way to do so.

Blogger Durandel Almiras April 10, 2017 11:37 AM  

@86 Cail - chilling if that is the subconscious conclusion of a world of cheap sex.

Blogger dc.sunsets April 10, 2017 11:40 AM  

@97 Natural eugenics is for the successful to have more kids and the poor, especially the unmarried not to have any. We have it backward.

Sounds like the 14th century. I believe this the the template William S. Lind offers when asked what he thinks the future will look like at some point (presuming the death of the Nation-State as the primary political institution of humanity.)

Times remain too good for culling of the unsuccessful. It will take unimaginable (now) hardship to see a return to widespread belief that the "starving poor" deserve it (which is what's required for that culling.)

Blogger Dexter April 10, 2017 11:46 AM  

There is nothing better in life than someone lecturing about the virtues of civic nationalism from rural Vermont.

Charles Murray writes about the glorious wonders of diversity from 95% white, 4% Asian Burkittsville MD.

Blogger Koanic April 10, 2017 11:48 AM  

No, I think it refers to the program our ancestors began of exterminating neanderthals.

That isn't an example of a blank slate, since Neanderthal genes are what separate us from the

the Igbo, Zulu, Ndebele, and Ethiopian, among which very large numbers of Christians can be found. I would suggest that we and they would be better off by importing substantial numbers of the better of those

that your retarded Boomer ass wants to import.

Blogger Deadmau5 Patton April 10, 2017 11:53 AM  

@107 Resident Moron "Even a population with a mean IQ of 80 in a total of a billion people, has a large number of very clever people."

Yeah, it's called India, and it's a violent dysfunctional ghetto with a mostly borrowed space program.

Blogger frigger611 April 10, 2017 11:53 AM  

That Spacebunny is one smart cookie.

Blogger DeploraBard April 10, 2017 11:56 AM  

Rape is robbery. Priceless.

Blogger James Dixon April 10, 2017 11:56 AM  

> No, I think it refers to the program our ancestors began of exterminating neanderthals.

Tom, our ancestors were the neanderthals.

> Just as a heroin addict rationalizes smoking dope that just might kill him then and there

Heroin addiction is well past the state of being able to rationalize anything. There is only the next fix, and that's all there is.

> I have a girlfriend (wife of my now awakened and armed MAN friend) who has 100% "race realism" for the (not a race) moslems -- and would happily round them all up and send hem back.

I noted to my wife yesterday that I am rapidly approaching the point with Muslims that my Indian fighting ancestors reached with Indians.

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 11:59 AM  

@30 Alt-Nazis are a philosophical tendency... their [basement] mass rallies
@31 Nazis believed in German cultural superiority. ... Nazism was a form of jingoism

Yeah, blah blah blah. Can we leave OFF insulting Nazi's? The Alt Right doesn't need more virtue signaling (y'all tryin' to look like the Lefties? It's workin'!) about "oooh, look how anti-Nazi I am; I am SO virtuous!!" As Vox says over and over: "the Nazi's LOST 60+ years ago. They're over, they cannot return." Must you dance on their graves?

At the risk of upsetting Nate, I'd point out it's the SAME situation for the Confederates! THEY were the last chance to prevent the massive illegal destructive federalization of this country. Y'all may give Southerners a ration of crap for losing -- and for wishing the South could rise again (sorry, Nate; it can't) -- but it's NOT different!

There may be others here besides me who look back sorrowfully at the Nazi's as the last chance for White Europeans to prevent the effing commies from taking over and destroying not just Europe but Western civilization. It does not MATTER if they made mistakes and lost; it matters that they were the LAST to try to stop the commies -- who now OWN the West and are driving us to our end!

The more virtue signaling (some of) the Alt Right do against the Nazi-wannabes, the less chance we have at recruiting from further to our right. Who is MORE likely to come to the Alt Right -- idiot leftists and frightened Alt Liters -- or Nazi-identifiers who come to see the reality that we cannot go back.

What became of: no shooting to the Right? Has it been modified to be "...except at Nazis"? *(How very leftie!! Why you could even borrow their "punch a nazi" signs!) Isn't 'not shooting right' supposed to be part of our stance? WHY are you not trying to (awaken and) *recruit* these Nazi-wannabes, instead of ridiculing them and losing what might damned useful fighters?! (Yes it's harder work than just calling them swastika panties -- and it takes more individual/one-on-one work than disparaging the whole group... but aren't we trying to BUILD the Alt Right, not shut out potentially useful folks?)

(Honest to God, y'all sound like OUR ENEMIES: How does your "nazinazinazinazi" differ from the Derb's deadly accurate "blackityblackityblackblackblack"?)


Because of Vox's wisdom, I have (not entirely happily, but I acknowledge his correct position) given up calling myself a Nazi (amongst our own Rightists, not in public). And, no, I'm not a wannabe. I've read the stuff, done the research -- hell, I MARRIED an (educated) Nazi who served for a couple years as Matt Koehl's bodyguard. Because the Nazi's lost does NOT mean they become fair game for pissing on! And that young men today -- desperately searching for some way to SAVE their people -- latch onto the last visible example of how to fight back against the commie takeover does not make them useless; it makes them ill- or un-educated. So, EDUCATE THEM! Bring them to our side!

But, in the meantime, can we quit with chanting leftie slogans?!

Anonymous Grayman April 10, 2017 12:01 PM  

dc.sunsets wrote:@73 Grayman As a species we could just as easily regress as we can progress.

"could?" I know you and I agree that "Idiocracy is a documentary," emphasis on the present tense.

Humanity is coasting to an apogee on the rising hydrogen of the greatest debt bubble in recorded history. Anyone have a match?.....

We face a return to the worries of the 1970's, raised to a large exponent.


Indeed we agree. However, I am not entirely pessimistic. I think there is the real possibility that one of the likely scenarios we develop over the next 100 years is a divergence scenario where we end up with “Eloi and Morlock” populations. Where the “Eloi” are a small subset perhaps similar to a “Japan” that has avoided the debt trap after the coming conflict resolves itself. The cultural and environmental pressures in places like India and Africa will probably remain heavily in favor of regression.

Related but slightly OT, the nuclear power situation concerns me. There is no real way to effectively clean up something like Fukushima and in a US civil war or major global conflict it would be trivial to end up with multiple “fukushimas” both in the US and around the world. I’m not saying nuclear is inherently bad, just that the legacy power facilitates have no failure mode that isn’t catastrophic and potentially unresolvable.

Blogger DeploraBard April 10, 2017 12:01 PM  

Rape is robbery. Priceless.

Blogger James Dixon April 10, 2017 12:05 PM  

> ...and for wishing the South could rise again (sorry, Nate; it can't)

It already has. The manufacturing growth, population growth, and economic growth of the country are all in the south. The north is losing all of that. The only thing the north has are the financial markets (which they will start strangling eventually, when they realize that's all that's left to milk money from).

Blogger Cail Corishev April 10, 2017 12:06 PM  

Durandel, it is chilling, but I think it's inescapable. People don't fight for things they don't value. You can see it in other areas, too: Christians who truly believed Christianity was the only true religion and the only path to salvation went on Crusades. They would die rather than let a single church be desecrated. How many of today's ecumenical Churchians would do anything like that?

I think it has to play into it.

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 12:10 PM  

@50 "There are, in Africa, more capable and less capable tribes. Among the former are the Igbo, Zulu, Ndebele, and Ethiopian, among which very large numbers of Christians can be found. I would suggest that we and they would be better off by importing substantial numbers of the better of those, after executing the worst of ours, and allowing the replacements free hands in disciplining black women and girls ruined by liberalism."


No no no -- send the black women FROM here to them! (I'm good with the executing the black males here though.)

Anonymous fop April 10, 2017 12:16 PM  

The dividing line is indeed biology, but not in the way presented by most. There is a ton of research going on that describes the differences in the brains of right vs. left ideologues. The differences are not just cognitive, but physical. Response to stimuli is way different, but different neural structures are being used in response to these stimuli, and these structures are often correlated with size differences in parts of the brain as well as processing hierarchy and blood flow. Exposing the test subject to a rational but contrary argument does not alter these processes, but rather amplifies them (a possible neorobiological demonstration of SJW law #2 in action).

It explains both Spacebunny's Paradox (above), the NeoCon Paradox (let's spread peace by bludgeoning and subjugating the world), the Churchian Paradox (I love Jesus so much I can ignore what he says), and presumably a host of other paradoxes that humans have destroyed themselves over for thousands of years.

This transcends race, it transcends religion, nationality, brain size, IQ and political affiliation; and it offers a clue to the frustration we experience trying to find common ground.

Anonymous Grayman April 10, 2017 12:19 PM  

A related observation....

Over the last few weeks there seems to be a change in the social atmosphere of one of the ranges I shoot at.
Historically is has been all "kumbaya" amongst all the different cultures, from upperclass white to middle class black to muslim. This range is right on the intersection of a high income white town, low income black/hispanic town, and middle income mixed town (indian, muslim, white).
Over the last 6 to 9 months a lot more blacks have been showing up, with a fare number of them "questionable" looking younger males. On the actual range, you can now see the different races / cultures self segregating and taking ports next to others of the same race / culture.
A few people I shoot with have all noticed this as well. Just an interesting note on social moods.

Anonymous Grayman April 10, 2017 12:28 PM  

@125 FOP,

And that leads directly to the concept of directed eugenics being a critical piece for a society with a long time horizon preference. We should be putting in at least as much effort into breeding ourselves as we do our stinking dogs!!!


@Cail
Historically a small percentage (10% is often quoted) of the population is responsible for the major change in a society (i.e. US revolution). I think the Alt-right is probably getting close to that critical mass and that the neo-marxists left is definitely at that critical mass.
Once peoples bellies start tog o hungry it will be a fight between those 2 ideologies.
DC references the burst of the credit bubble, but I would refine that to people being hungry, wither due to empty shelves a la Venezuela or being unable to purchase food due to credit markets collapsing EBT failing.

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 12:32 PM  

@83 There have always been some Jews voluntarily enlisted in the US Military. Huge numbers? No. But there are always a few."

Is that entryism -- or did those few get the short straw to have to go watch for and report awakening Whites?

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 10, 2017 12:33 PM  

Do liberals and lefties believe in nurture uber alles? Maybe not for their own families, but certainly for their pets.

Head Start proves this. Head Start was part of the Great Society back in the 1960's. Head Start specifically takes "disadvantaged" children and exposes them to the more advanced teaching that "advantaged" children supposedly get at home. It's a classic example of liberal blank-slate thinking.

Every study of Head Start ever done from the 1970's to Current Year shows two effects: the children enrolled in it do perform better on all metrics from verbal ability to fine motor skills to reading while they are in the program, and the effects of Head Start are gone by the 3rd grade.

Repeat: the effects of Head Start are gone by the 3rd grade. There is no difference by Grade 3 between the underprivileged children who went through Head Start and those who did not. A difference that makes no difference is not a difference.

By any sane measure, Head Start fails. It delivers nothing, it takes time and money that could be spent on other things, it consumes a great deal of paperwork and treasure.

Head Start has no measurable lasting effects.

So of course the libtards and lefties will never cut it from the budget, no matter how much they profess to "love science". Why? Why do these people support a program that has consistently failed for 50 years, for two standard generations?

Because it ought to work. It really ought to work to take an 85 IQ welfare child and turn him or her into a 105 IQ middle class child through the magic of "education".

Head Start ought to work, and therefore it is sacred to liberals.

To cut Head Start would be to admit that the blank slate, nurture uber alles, belief is false. Libtards will never admit that, outside of their own families and private circles.

Actions vs. words. Which one tells more truth? Actions.
Watch what people do, not what they say.

Libtards believe in the blank slate with religious fervor for everyone else. Inside their own families and subcultures? "That's different".

Want to test this? Just try cutting Head Start out of any budget, from local school to the national level. See what rhetoric you get.

Anonymous fop April 10, 2017 12:38 PM  

@127 Grayman

Except that it also transcends genetics. There may be some genetic component, but there is also considerable evidence for reversal of the paradoxical behavior via environmental or divine intervention ie: red pill, religious conversion, etc.

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 12:44 PM  

@105 "Also, racialist ideas were first invented by the left."

!! Which explains why two-day old babies respond (against -- show stress and rejection) to other races than their own?! (NOT!)

(Biggest laugh: JEWISH babies responded more strongly to 'other races' than other races to 'other races'!)

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 12:45 PM  

That (NOT!) was: *does not explain*... the babies DO react against other races...

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 10, 2017 12:47 PM  

@1 Resident Moron™

What we've seen is that, if an organization has no protection from lefty entryism, then it will be infiltrated, subverted and converged.

The great historian Robert Conquest, who almost singlehandedly pulled the facts of Holodomor out of the memory hole, put this into three laws:


1. Everyone is conservative about what he knows best.

2 . Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing.

3. The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies.


Probably these date to the 1960's or 70's, and so rule 3 could be not so relevant. The first two look timeless. Certainly any organization that's not explicitly anti-SJW will sooner or later become infiltrated and converged.

Blogger Cail Corishev April 10, 2017 12:47 PM  

Do liberals and lefties believe in nurture uber alles?

They damn sure do when they're getting artificially inseminated. Something no AI doc has ever heard: "Eh, just give me whatever's fresh; I'll fix it in post-production."

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 10, 2017 12:49 PM  

@131 Avalanche

Do you have a link ? Something to reduce search time?

Anonymous A Most Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Deplorable Cents April 10, 2017 12:50 PM  

@134
Do liberals and lefties believe in nurture uber alles?

They damn sure do when they're getting artificially inseminated.


Sure, because that's within their family / subculture, rather than among their pets.

Something no AI doc has ever heard: "Eh, just give me whatever's fresh; I'll fix it in post-production."

"It's different when we do it".

Anonymous Grayman April 10, 2017 12:51 PM  

@129 Deplorable

Head Start!.!.!. A family member of mine is a child psychologist who worked in those programs for years. Anyone who can look at a situation dispassionately would instantly realize that A IS NOT B when it comes to races, if they could see or hear the day to day experience of the children in head start.
The stories are unbelievable. Children whose parents never bother to potty train them because “the school will do it, it’s the school’s job”, to children who are so obviously on the low end of the IQ curve that even basic reading skills takes a herculean effort.
Fop @125 made the comment about brain structure and it makes sense, because none of the people (mostly women) in these programs sees they are trying to teach astrophysics to monkeys, but most people who see the inner works and look at it dispassionately would say WTF.
In a truly competitive /ruthless environment many of these children would never survive beyond early childhood.

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 12:56 PM  

@122 "> ...and for wishing the South could rise again (sorry, Nate; it can't)

It already has. The manufacturing growth, population growth, and economic growth of the country are all in the south. The north is losing all of that. The only thing the north has are the financial markets (which they will start strangling eventually, when they realize that's all that's left to milk money from)."

And as long as so damned much of our money is sent 'up north' to the sub-/per-verted feds -- no, we have NOT risen again! And how much of that population and job growth is illegals (and unwanted legals) coming and pushing WHITE SOUTHERNERS out of their place!?

And as long as our manufacturing (and I own a manufacturing co. so I'm in the thick of it) keeps being hemmed in and undercut (and taxed to death!) -- nah, I don't see any chance of succession until the whole country falls apart -- and how many of the folks here describing/planning ahead see the South as future africa?! THEN what?!

(And no I don't hire mexies, period! Hell, I won't even let them cut my lawn!!)

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 1:07 PM  

@127 " We should be putting in at least as much effort into breeding ourselves as we do our stinking dogs!!!"

Dja ever notice how wonderful (and horrifying) eugenics can be with livestock, but we're "not allowed" to have it for humans -- well, except for the JEWS -- who lead (and also subvert) the 'genetics research' field so they can decide who does and doesn't get right of return... while they demonized and destroyed any idea of eugenics for White Euros! ("Evil nazi concept, eugenics." No, it wasn't; it was a great concept that "even" the nazis used!)

Long, long ago, for a library far, far away, I made up some smallish "bookmarks" with a couple of bullet points of the actual STD data from the ACTUAL CDC -- showing how diseased the "black community" was (both sexes). And wrapped it up with: "DON'T DATE OUTSIDE YOUR RACE!" Small enough to sit inside a paperback book without being noticeable by the library staff. And I inserted them into the YA (young adult) romances -- the readers of which, of course, would be mostly WHITE teen girls.

How many people go find a book mark BEFORE getting into the book? And how many NEED to mark their place and "oh look, the book has a bookmark!"

Info they'd never been (or were likely to be) exposed too was right there.... cause they'd needed a book mark and one was there. (S'pose it could also be done with YA boy's adventure stories? Gaming walkthrough books at GameStop?)

Blogger Feather Blade April 10, 2017 1:08 PM  

YIH wrote:ZhukovG wrote:@Lovekraft: No Christianity does not override differences. A Nigerian Christian remains a Nigerian. I can love him and send aid to him while he remains in Nigeria. But if he tries to force his way into my country I am completely at peace with machine gunning him at the border.



Two excellent examples: Haiti and Mexico's Santa Muerte ''Saint Death''. You tell me what this is.


That's called "syncretism" AKA "The Inquisition not doing it's job."

Anonymous Avalanche April 10, 2017 1:18 PM  

@135 "Do you have a link ? Something to reduce search time?"

Search: "study of race recognition in infants"

I didn't pick any out because I don't know if you want scholarly or pop...

e.g.:

"Young infants are known to prefer own-race faces to other race faces and ..."
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0018621

or
" Babies show racial bias when picking playmates, a study suggests..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/10770563/Babies-show-racial-bias-study-finds.html

or
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7308833_Nature_and_nurture_in_own-race_face_processing
"Nature and nurture in own-race face processing"
Article (PDF Available) in Psychological Science 17(2):159-63 · March 2006

Or, an old fav: Steve Sailer "Is Your Baby Racist?"
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2009/09/is-your-baby-racist.html

Anonymous Grayman April 10, 2017 1:24 PM  

Avalanche wrote:@122 "> ...and for wishing the South could rise again (sorry, Nate; it can't)

It already has. The manufacturing growth, population growth, and economic growth of the country are all in the south. The north is losing all of that. The only thing the north has are the financial markets (which they will start strangling eventually, when they realize that's all that's left to milk money from)."……

and how many of the folks here describing/planning ahead see the South as future africa?! THEN what?!

(And no I don't hire mexies, period! Hell, I won't even let them cut my lawn!!)


Avalanche,

South Africa is looking like a very real outcome for the south eastern US unless the black population is removed from the US. Look at Raliegh NC right now, hell look at Memphis TN, it’s an African slum surrounded a narrow ring of white middle class and then another ring of upper middle / upper income whites. The local sheriffs are functionally and quietly enforcing apartied. The city politics is hilarious, it’s a bunch of blacks running the city stealing from the blacks who voted them into power (because its ok for blacks and minorities to vote in racial blocks) and complaining about the evil white man, all while the city infrastructure continues to crumble. Listening to the politics in the Memphis area is like listening to comedy.
The difference in that area is that a significant portion of whites are actively armed at any given time.


On a side note, I have notice that woman who are from the south east have a characteristic facial structure that is notably different from much of the white population in the US.

Blogger Akulkis April 10, 2017 1:35 PM  

@36

"Do you take children away from unwed mothers if that is required?"

No. You make sterilization a mandatory condition for ANY WIC, AFDC, or any other form of welfare, INCLUDING use of subsidized child-care facilities.

Blogger Akulkis April 10, 2017 1:36 PM  

Thus, irresponsible women will be treated in law and finance as the irresponsibile women that they are.

Blogger Sheila4g April 10, 2017 1:42 PM  

@35 Deplorable and @41 Avalanche: Excellent links but must also include vital and repeatedly watchable: racial differences in newborn behavior

Anonymous Antipas April 10, 2017 1:51 PM  

Civic Nationalism appears to be nothing more than cuckservatism with a bit more border control.

Blogger Akulkis April 10, 2017 2:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Akulkis April 10, 2017 2:04 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Anonymous Jack Amok April 10, 2017 2:06 PM  

The Alt-Lite are people who understand but don't yet accept. In time, they will either accept and move Right or give into cognitive dissonance and go Left.

Blogger Akulkis April 10, 2017 2:06 PM  

@83

We used to have a Jewish 11B in my last battalion (1-125 IN)

Blogger Dexter April 10, 2017 2:11 PM  

115 pound women can totally beat the hell out of any adult male!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4397880/Police-defend-video-sorority-girl-body-slammed.html#v-7251321738907568825

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:17 PM  

@87

Because, of course, experts are not politicized and are completely impervious to personal bias (in any direction), and are incredibly intelligent, since the IQ tests tell the, they are...

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:20 PM  

"Most civic nationalists simply aren't equipped to have their ideas questioned at all."

Most may not be. I am not most. Moreover, my approach is non-absolutist. There is, after all, a difference between "we can take in anybody and, with no effort at all, make them Americans" and "we can select carefully, or delegate that selection to our most capable, and after strenuous and, if necessary, utterly ruthless methods, make Americans out of some."

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:23 PM  

"But biology trumps training."

Sometimes, yes, sometimes, no. Any absolute statement on it is likely to be wrong.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:30 PM  

@108

The problem there is that, while black civilization in Africa rarely went very high, and were it did (Zimbabwe) it seems to haave not lasted long, Asian civilization, despite higher IQs than whites, was colonized (and, whe conflict arose, usually crushed) by whites.

90, if valid, might be the bottom limit for a functional democracy. There are kinds of states which are not democratic yet remain functional.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:31 PM  

@114

Ah, poor Koanic. Did youums widdle feerings get hurt? Po' baby. Po, po, po Neanderthal baby. I feel bad for you.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:32 PM  

@118.

No, James, a very small percentage of our ancestors were Neanderthals.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:34 PM  

"At the risk of upsetting Nate, I'd point out it's the SAME situation for the Confederates! THEY were the last chance to prevent the massive illegal destructive federalization of this country."

Interestingly enough, there _was_ a group many confederates desperately wanted to import more of. Any guesses on which group that was?

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:37 PM  

@124
"send the black women FROM here to them!"
I have some issues with the morality of that. Execute dangerous people who violate the social contract? Absolutely. Exile people whose problem is that white directed liberalism ruined them? I'm not really good with that.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:41 PM  

"Is that entryism -- or did those few get the short straw to have to go watch for and report awakening Whites?"

No, just the small percentage of young men from any group who have it deep in their genes to be soldiers and are not necessarily even especially picky about the army.

Blogger Koanic April 10, 2017 2:44 PM  

You have no idea what percentage of our ancestry is Neanderthal, Tom. Is that your second childhood coming on?

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:47 PM  

"Civic Nationalism appears to be nothing more than cuckservatism with a bit more border control."

The Romans who carried off the Sabine women and then joined with the Sabines would be most surprised by this.

Look, civic nationalism is just a weapon and a tool. Some places and some times and some peoples it works fine. It worked fairly well for us, seeing us from a nothing on the edge of the known world to the world's premier power in remarkably short time. That the left then overdid it - I am sure deliberately to ruin us - doesn't mean that the idea is wrong, only that carrying it past its logical limit is wrong/suicidal. Folks here talk about going back to pre-1964. What have we then? A lighter skinned and lighter version of civic nationalism.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:48 PM  

Oh, Koanic, you poor dolt. Get out from under the toes of the giants above you and smell the toe cheese.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 2:50 PM  

"You make sterilization a mandatory condition for ANY WIC, AFDC, or any other form of welfare, INCLUDING use of subsidized child-care facilities."

Norplant or Deprovera. There are women who end up in dire straits through no fault of their own. We ought not do something irreversible to someone who might return to productive life.

Blogger James Dixon April 10, 2017 3:07 PM  

> No, James, a very small percentage of our ancestors were Neanderthals.

There's no conflict in those statements, Tom.

Anonymous fop April 10, 2017 3:46 PM  

Norplant or Deprovera. There are women who end up in dire straits through no fault of their own. We ought not do something irreversible to someone who might return to productive life.

With all due respect, to hell with both of your authoritarian, government intrusion loving, psychopathic eugenicist asses.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 3:56 PM  

fop, you're an idiot. If one is paying someone to stay alive, one is allowed to set conditions on the payment. They can always refuse the conditions and starve to death; their choice, after all.

In the alternative we can have no conditions _and_ no welfare state, allowing them to starve without choice. I'd be cool with that. You, on the other hand; are you happy with that non-intrusive, non-authoritarian approach?

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 3:57 PM  

Ah, James, I took your statement to mean _all_ our ancestors, since you didn't say "some."

Blogger tublecane April 10, 2017 4:21 PM  

I find this line of argument disingenuous. Because it ignores a plain as day fact about the left, which is that they don't have any clear line of demarcation, either. You can say belief in blank slate, but that's not enough, obviously. Otherwise, neocons would be welcomed into the flock. They actually are, to a certain extent, because there's entryism into the left, too (just listen in on leftist to leftist conversations; or don't, because they lie to eachother, too), and as we know neocons are *really* leftists, underneath. But they aren't in the club, so to speak. They have to make due with their ramshackle little club in a seedier part of town.

Leftists are not always or uniformly, but mostly always, moving further to the left. That's their thing. What constitutes leftism is constantly changing, by definition. They're always outflanking their previous position. You know the vanguard, but what about the rest? Who's still a leftist, and who's suddenly a centrist or (God forbid!) a rightist? They don't know. It's arbitrary.

So lack of a timeless definition isn't the problem. Or not the same one Buckleyites had. Because the people who beat the Buckleyites like a rented mule didn't have it, either.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 10, 2017 4:27 PM  

You guys realize that in the long run, eugenics is dyscivic, right? That moving the survival pressure from functionality of the offspring to the political and social connections of the parents, any real-world eugenics program ultimately and inevitably becomes the admissions policy of Harvard and Yale?
Or are long-term consequences not your bag?

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 4:33 PM  

There are a couple of kinds of eugenics, Snidely. Some is positive and active, as in, say, the Lebensborn program. Some is preventive, as in preventing the wicked from breeding via prison or execution, or preventing the defective (or allegedly defective) from breeding a la Buck v. Bell. And then, too, humanity is one vast exercise in selective breeding, run by women since there have been women.

We are much more likely to know what we're doing when we execute the wicked than we are when we try to mate people for positive gains.

Blogger Martin April 10, 2017 4:35 PM  

But if the alt lite cucks to the left in fear of being attacked. Is support the right aproach? Is not all out vicious attack the right way to deal with them so they start cucking for us instead? Since cucking seems to be in their nature and we have many viciously sharp arguments to start carving them up with?

Blogger tublecane April 10, 2017 4:37 PM  

@34-Firstly, the term wasn't chosen for its taxonomic accuracy. The internet likes puns, for some reason. It was chosen for its puninness, and to characterize that group as a lesser version of the Real Deal further to the right.

Alt-left doesn't really work, because whatever else that group is, it is to the right of the mainstream left. The term Alt-left would have to cover leftists to the left of the mainstream, like actual communists.

But I do like the idea of an ever-expanding definition of the left, because it's bigger than most people think.

Blogger SirHamster April 10, 2017 4:38 PM  

Avalanche wrote:Yeah, blah blah blah. Can we leave OFF insulting Nazi's? The Alt Right doesn't need more virtue signaling (y'all tryin' to look like the Lefties? It's workin'!) about "oooh, look how anti-Nazi I am; I am SO virtuous!!"

No. Losers must be shamed to encourage Winning.


As Vox says over and over: "the Nazi's LOST 60+ years ago. They're over, they cannot return." Must you dance on their graves?

Yes. Because it's worth it to piss off the Nazi apologists.

How'd getting your white Utopia burned to rubble and setting the stage for 60+ years of (((globalist))) Muh Holocaust cultural dominance work out for everyone?

Anonymous fop April 10, 2017 4:39 PM  

@167

Charity is the job of the church, Kratman, not godless atheist cunts like yourself.

Your "here's a can of tuna, now stand still for your government mandated chemical castration" crap is a primary example of why any atheist who runs for public office should be publicly shaved, sanded and rolled in powdered habanero.

Be a good boy and go to hell now, ok?

Blogger tublecane April 10, 2017 4:42 PM  

@172-That has been the leftist strategy. Look at what they've done with the term "fascist." Fascists of course being to their immediate right, not the far, far, furthest right possible, as they pretend. There is a Sword of Damocles hanging over every leftist's head, reminding him he could be executed for right-deviationism at any moment.

Blogger SirHamster April 10, 2017 4:46 PM  

Tom Kratman wrote:We are much more likely to know what we're doing when we execute the wicked than we are when we try to mate people for positive gains.

In terms of designing the system for the long term, executing the wicked is definitely more antifragile than curated mating.

It's easier to identify a failed result, than to identify a success and not miss any hidden defect. (see genetic diseases exclusive to royal inbreeding)

Makes one go "Huh" at the emphasis in OT law on removing the wicked from the nation. And the cull of an entire generation that refused to enter the Promised Land.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents April 10, 2017 4:58 PM  

@170 Snidely
You guys realize that in the long run, eugenics is dyscivic, right?

The last Ice Age seems to have been rather eugenic in the northern latitudes. Dyscivic?

The Black Death was certainly eugenic. Was it dyscivic?

The increase in population and lifespan in the 19th century West was mainly due to improved sanitation, regular handwashing, better food preservation / cooking techniques and other simple things. People with short time horizons who habitually towards crapped where they gardened or ate also tended to die younger than more careful people. Was that dyscivic?

A program of eugenics run by humans could turn into a Brave New Nightmare pretty quickly, I'll agree. But an alternative will still exist - eugenics by massive die-off.

Blogger Koanic April 10, 2017 5:02 PM  

The percentage figures given for modern % Neanderthal DNA are not the % SHARED, but the % UNIQUE TO Neanderthals.

These figures should increase as more Neanderthal DNA is sequenced.

More and more, it is looking like the Neanderthals simply became us, particularly in the case of the Basque.

Any man who endorses the miscegenation-by-proximity of his race with pseudo-human sub-Saharan African DNA is a mega-meta-cuck.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 10, 2017 5:24 PM  

A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents wrote:A program of eugenics run by humans could turn into a Brave New Nightmare pretty quickly, I'll agree. But an alternative will still exist - eugenics by massive die-off.
Precisely my point. It's the only type with a proven track record of success.

The net effect of an intentional eugenics program, people being what they are, will be the Kardashians.

Long term, it's best to let people breed as they will and let the population be culled by circumstance. It seems to have worked out so far.

Blogger Koanic April 10, 2017 6:13 PM  

> It seems to have worked out so far.

No, the evidence says it worked fantastically well in the ancestral environment in climates with harsh winters, but terribly badly post agricultural revolution.

It's all fun and profit when domestication means wolf to husky, but considerably less so when it's husky to poodle.

Anonymous Eric the Red April 10, 2017 6:14 PM  

From the range of comments, the left is like the alien in The Thing that constantly devours from within whatever it has last touched.

A belief in a blank slate must logically be associated with a ceaseless unrelenting urge to improve it, and no thought that any such attempt (or the policies thereof) could ever be doomed to failure. Any seeming failure is just temporary; doubling down is sure to work the next time.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 6:40 PM  

Fop (well chosen nom de coward, I think):

You really have no idea who or what I am, do you, fuckface?

Blogger Aeoli Pera April 10, 2017 7:15 PM  

I'll take an alt-retard over a cuck any day. There are worse things than being stupid. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now.

Blogger Thurston Pilgrim April 10, 2017 7:21 PM  

I had high hopes for Gavin McInnes... oh well

Anonymous Luke April 10, 2017 7:32 PM  

I initially had issues with Kratman, believing him wrong on several points on which I already had opinions. However, after reading him extensively, I have concluded these things about him:

1) He definitely knows what the F he's talking about when he posts on a subject.

2) His moral courage is stratospheric.

3) One man like him will be worth thousands of near-neutral pansies when push comes to shove, as it will soon enough (under 5 years, or you can call me Tyrone Mohammed Goatblower).

I wish that Trump would get to see his series on riot control, and would give orders to organize a regular Army regiment dedicated to riot control, with Kratman as CO.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 10, 2017 8:09 PM  

I appreciate that, Luke, especially #2.

I think we need a division, honestly, but acorns and oaks, after all.

Anonymous fop April 10, 2017 8:26 PM  

Why don't you and Peter Singer go find a nice utilitarian pig to fuck, Tom.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 10, 2017 8:48 PM  

@41 Dexter
Affirmative Action Admirals, yay!
---

Trannies are already up to Admiral? Damn, that was fast!

Blogger Were-Puppy April 10, 2017 8:49 PM  

@41 Dexter

Every line in her resume is "the first African American woman who..."
---

I hate those participation trophies. It's not like 5 gorillion white dudes haven't done the same damn thing before.

Blogger Were-Puppy April 10, 2017 8:51 PM  

@36 tz
Do you take children away from unwed mothers if that is required?
---

With Pizza Monsters in charge? Definitely.

Anonymous Luke April 10, 2017 9:03 PM  

You're welcome, Tom. My father was an 0-6 with 3 combat tours (3 DFCs, rec for the Navy Cross), so I'm not unfamiliar with the best type of men America breeds. (Astronauts have eaten at my father's table when I was there.)

Here's an idea for a petition at www.whitehouse.gov:

Trump has to spend 2 hours speaking, ALONE (no Ivanka/Jared/neocons/diversities present) with Jared Taylor and Thomas Chittum. He then spends the rest of the day with Cols. William Lind and Kratman to figure out WTF to DO about preventing/ameliorating/ undoing what the first two guys inform him (beyond what he already knew) is coming.

Anonymous fop April 10, 2017 9:13 PM  

@Luke

Totally agree on points 1 and 3. Tom is well read, and when SHTF he is exactly the guy you want on your side.

As for number 2, I see zero evidence. And when S not HTF that's all that really matters. What have you seen?

Blogger Lazarus April 10, 2017 10:00 PM  

Tom Kratman wrote:Folks here talk about going back to pre-1964. What have we then? A lighter skinned and lighter version of civic nationalism.

Yah, but we would have cars like tanks. Like tanks, Tom! Whole families could live in those cars. And Elvis. We would still have Elvis, the good, uncompromised Elvis, before the military fucked him up. And America would be great again.

Anonymous Luke April 10, 2017 10:51 PM  

Post #193. Re point #2: Short version is his mil record + his posts with his IRL name attached, worthy of Bill Lind or Chesty Puller. I've got an assignment due in my online class, so that's all I have in the way of an answer at the moment.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 11, 2017 12:22 AM  

@fop
I have my arguments with Kratman. He's way too quick to take offense where none is intended, for one thing. But your comments to him a literally insane. They bear no relationship to the man.

It's like you were criticising Patton for cowardice under fire, or Eisenhower's bad organizational abilities. Tom's certainly open to criticism, but not on the front you have engaged.

Blogger Tom Kratman April 11, 2017 8:46 AM  

"He's way too quick to take offense where none is intended, for one thing."

I think it's a fair statement that I am only quick to take offense when offense was previously offered, thus laying the foundation of a pattern.

Or if I'm in a bad mood. Or if I want a fight.

Anonymous fop April 11, 2017 10:32 AM  

The issue, Luke and snidely, is not with his military record. It's that, like most every godless freak, he offers a binary solution for the problem of the poor. The first is starvation via governmental neglect, the other (preferred) is BigBrother.gov support + some compulsory chemical injection that satisfies the atheist freak's unquenchable lust for control of the most intimate details of other people's lives. Like the TSA agent who recently ran his hands repeatedly over the crotch of that retarded boy for 20 minutes, the godless freak simply cannot restrain his sick desire to exert utilitarian control over even the most helpless in our society.

If Tom happens to be a christian who only talks like a godless freak, then I humbly apologize for the mischaracterization.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash April 11, 2017 11:17 AM  

fop wrote:It's that, like most every godless freak,
And that is why you fail.

Anonymous fop April 11, 2017 11:41 AM  

Then I'd have to guess roman catholic - the religion that's against contraception and abortion - except when it's done by jackbooted government bureaucrats.

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