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Sunday, May 14, 2017

Why Mothers Matter

The Darkstream tonight was inspired by some thoughts on Mother's Day and the signal importance that mothers play in defending and sustaining Western civilization.

The 2007 column I mentioned, The Mother's War, can be read here.

And since the verdict was distinctly pro-excerpt, I'm including one on a tangentially related topic from Innocence & Intellect, 2001-2005 (The Collected Columns). I figure I'll try to do 2-3 per week. This 2003 column proved to be an extremely controversial one and got me invited on several radio shows after its publication, including a Canadian one where all the callers lined up to take angry shots at me. Good times.

EXCERPT:

Spiting their pretty faces
February 3, 2003

A recent story floating around the variety section of a newspaper I still read occasionally reminded me of a conversation I had with a college girlfriend about six months ago. She’s a pretty woman—slender, petite, well-educated and intelligent. She has an excellent, high-paying job and even owns her own house.

She is, in short, the epitome of feminist success. And yet, she is profoundly disappointed with her life. She has, in her own words, continued to stumble upwards while somehow missing out on the only thing she truly wanted—a husband and a family.

Nor is she alone, in anecdotal or statistical terms. Not only do the majority of women who were in our college social circle remain unmarried, but according to Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, author of “Why There Are No Good Men Left: The Romantic Plight of the New Single Woman”, a 30-something woman is three times more likely to be unmarried than her 1970’s counterpart. While some might argue that this is a good thing, most demographics experts would disagree, as would, it appears, an awful lot of those 30-something single women.

While Whitehead correctly identifies the general problem, she is as clueless as the next feminist as to how to go about solving it. Instead of recommending that individuals change the one thing within their power—namely, their behavior—she advocates altering the entire system of courtship. Given this typically fascistic feminist approach, I am, of course, shocked that her six 30-something daughters and nieces all remain available.

But, as I told my friend, the root of the problem is that the kind of man she wants is precisely the man who is smart enough to stay away from her. Smart, educated women aren’t willing to date down on the social scale, so the higher they rise, the more they cut down on their available pool of men.

Furthermore, the smarter a man is, the more he is likely to realize that being romantically involved with an intelligent, educated, upper-middle-class American woman steeped in 20 years of feminist indoctrination is about as desirable as being flayed alive and rolled in salt.

Consider the premarital professions of the women in my social circle, all of whom are now stay-at-home moms happily married to intelligent, successful men: Farmgirl. Nanny. Teacher. Office manager. Nanny. Pipeline worker. Professional student. Church volunteer. That’s eight quality men who won’t be marrying a high-powered career girl right there.

The advice I gave my friend was succinct: In any given dating situation, think about what your instincts are telling you—then do the opposite. It’s like football… if the run is getting stuffed, then throw the darn ball.

So, in the unlikely event there happens to be a 30-something single woman reading this, here are a few pointers which might be helpful while you wait for Ms. Dafoe Whitehead and company to change the dating culture:

  • Your rights are delineated in the Constitution. Everything else is a privilege.
  • Your family has to put up with you. For everyone else, it’s optional.
  • Southern belles always get what they want. Watch and learn, grasshopper.
  • Sex as an incentive is fair enough. Using its deprivation as a punishment will backfire hideously.
  • Mocking your man in public creates a no-win situation. He can either slice and dice you verbally, which is no fun for you, or keep his mouth shut and look like an idiot. In the case of the latter, it doesn’t mean that you’ve won, or that he’s forgotten.
  • Men love happy women. Act happy and you may discover how to be happy.
  • If there’s any doubt, choose the most optimistic interpretation. That’s what he meant.
  • Honey, honey, honey—a thousand times honey. Never vinegar.
  • Conflict is not passion. It isn’t any fun, either.
  • Limit yourself to five complaints and demands a day. If you’re not counting, you’re over the limit.
  • If no one ever taught you the traditional arts, find an older woman to be your mentor.
  • Your feelings and objectively verifiable facts may be different. Learn to distinguish between them.

Now, I’m not saying that applying these principles to your dating scene will turn frogs into princes or anything, but they will get you in the game. And if all else fails, just tell your next first date that you’re thinking of quitting your job and returning to your former career as an aerobics instructor.

He’ll be intrigued, trust me.

Labels: ,

82 Comments:

Anonymous Phil Mann May 14, 2017 6:00 PM  

Re-reading that article from ten years ago reminds me of what attracted to me to Vox in the first place. That one, the one about what men actually want from women, the annual Christmas and Easter posts that are too numerous to remember in detail -- all superb.

Didn't realize it then, but there is indeed a war going on with the survival of our civilization at stake. Well done.

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 14, 2017 6:43 PM  

The two most influential men in history lead lives without women. The man we call the Buddha, was married but left his wife and child and Jesus Christ was single and celibate. No two men made a greater impact on the world then these two.

Then consider some of the most important Christian Saints. Saint Benedict created the monastic order that rebuilt Western Civilization. Saint Francis is probably the most well known saint in history. Saint Thomas Aquinas in the most renown theologian in the West.The list goes on.

Nietzsche was single. Hitler was definitely awkward around women, perhaps even a virgin. What do we know about the Greek philosophers?

Now to MGTOW. Being MGTOW is fine, BUT IF YOU DO SO YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DEDICATE YOUR LIFE TO OUR CIVILIZATION. MGTOWs MUST BE WILLING TO BLEED AND DIE BEFORE ANYONE!!!

I picture a new Order of Men who live communally like the Religious Orders but who are 100% dedicated to fighting for the West. These will be men that will look to be martyred like the early Christians.

I've been thinking about this idea for a while and have even started considering writing a short novel about it called "Beta Male Death Cult."

So go MGTOW if you want, but be dedicated to the survival of the West and be willing to die.

Obedience until Death

Blogger Alan Gould May 14, 2017 7:18 PM  

"Obedience until Death"

Good luck inspiring that sentiment amongst the MGTOWs. I think they just want some peace and quiet for a change.

Blogger Commenter May 14, 2017 7:35 PM  

Thanks for reframing Mother's day from saccharine idol worship involving edible bouquets and mandatory maudlin cards to honest appreciation for the role of mothers in western civilization. Women (and men) have been lied to for decades (if not longer) about the importance of wives and mothers.

You mentioned in Mother's War the choice between Brothel and Burka. We may not be to the point of forcing the brothel or the burka, but culturally, I think we are in a weird place. The PUA's want the brothel and the WRE/Sandwich crew want the burka. Women of the West are left trying to thread the needle between the two extremes.

The best things I ever did were to leave my career when it would have geographically separated me from my husband and to stop working when we had kids. I've been a mostly stay home mom for almost eighteen years. Definitely worth the sacrifice.

Happy belated Mother's Day to Spacebunny.

Blogger My Dead Gramps May 14, 2017 7:39 PM  

I picture a new Order of Men who live communally like the Religious Orders but who are 100% dedicated to fighting for the West. These will be men that will look to be martyred like the early Christians.

I've been thinking about this idea for a while and have even started considering writing a short novel about it called "Beta Male Death Cult."



So /pol then?

Joking apart, looking back I now realise I would've resigned myself to MGTOW emptiness if gamergate had never happened. They just had to invade my safe space.

Blogger Ez May 14, 2017 7:42 PM  

I think the MGTOW crowd are like civic nationalists and agnostics...hopefully for most it's just a stepping stone on the way over.

But I really just wanted to comment and say thank you. Homeschooling is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life...way harder than any job I had pre-kids and exponentially far harder than the hardest classes I took in college. I continually wonder if my and my husband's influence and effort is enough to stand against the overwhelmingly antagonistic culture that seeps in all around our children.

(Also, I meet cernovich/vox/roosh/heartiste readers in the randomest places and they have always made me feel like a rock star for doing what I do...which is shocking because I'm used to quite the opposite.)

Don't thank us too profusely though...we're still women after all. :P

OpenID archerfisher21 May 14, 2017 7:47 PM  

@Walter Oleg
"Walter Oleg wrote:Now to MGTOW. Being MGTOW is fine, BUT IF YOU DO SO YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DEDICATE YOUR LIFE TO OUR CIVILIZATION. MGTOWs MUST BE WILLING TO BLEED AND DIE BEFORE ANYONE!!!
"

Yeah... you went full retard there. Never go full retard.

Soldiers have a duty to fight and if they have to, to bleed and die. Because they signed up for it. Literally, they signed a ton of documents about it and it's the agreement.

I'm not MTGOW (I have zero urge for a wife and children, but I do date some) but MTGOW's have no duty to bleed and die for you or anyone. It's a two way street. If they want to be Alt-Right and help, I think that's fabulous, but they don't have any duty.

Who do they owe this duty to?

The government that takes action against whites?

Their countrymen and women, who have largely gone MTGOW when it comes to ANYTHING pro family, pro white, or pro west?

The Church, that wants to to blame men for all the problems of the women that the church refuses to criticize?

The savages that white women and the left wants to import?

The MTGOW's are a mix, from losers who would never step into the ring, to guys who gave it their best and are now off nursing wounds we can't see. Instead of sounding like another insane Mark Driscoll screaming "how dare you" why don't you let the losers be losers, and the battered fighters go get their rest?

Blogger Luke May 14, 2017 7:56 PM  

Oleg, two bones to pick with your post above:

1) Hitler had a mistress. Any reading of Eva Braun's relationship with him indicates they had sex.

2) You think Buddha was more influential in history than was Mohammed (if he really existed, and isn't a composite character)? Really? Mohammed was a far greater factor in affecting European history (Crusades, Tours/Poitiers, Lepanto should all ring bells, along with the OIL in the MidEast and its geopolitical effects). And, what region in the world was as important as Europeans from 1500 - 1944, and transplanted ones thereafter, until, oh, when China kicks the U.S. off the center front of the world stage?

Anonymous Uncle Maffoo May 14, 2017 7:58 PM  

And if all else fails, just tell your next first date that you’re thinking of quitting your job and returning to your former career as an aerobics instructor.

I'll definitely be on the lookout for this, that is if I have to transition to dating "career women."

Blogger marco moltisanti May 14, 2017 8:06 PM  

"And if all else fails, just tell your next first date that you’re thinking of quitting your job and returning to your former career as an aerobics instructor."

One caveat, be sure you are slender and look at least somewhat fit, otherwise he'll just assume it was some fat acceptance diversity hire thing.

Blogger LonestarWhacko May 14, 2017 8:10 PM  

Well, MGTOW is a reaction to hatred. Why, exactly, should a man fight for a culture that despises him​? That's the real problem right there. As has been pointed out, the future belongs to those who show up, and western feminism has a lot to answer for.

Civilization depends on the energy of young Men. The deal thru out time was sex and a family for male labor. How can that be fixed? Mothers matter, and that's a fact. But young Men raising a family are an integral part.

Blogger Duke Norfolk May 14, 2017 8:10 PM  

I've become so sick of the obsequious woman worshiping culture these days that I've become quite jaded.

Unfortunately we've come to heap praise on so many undeserving mothers that the whole thing has lost real meaning.

But there's no doubt that for women who are REALLY being mothers and haven't abdicated that job to the State, daycare, a nanny, etc., they deserve this day for sure.

Blogger Matamoros May 14, 2017 8:13 PM  

I have long said the chief way for a girl/woman to attract and hold a man is for her to be cheerful and pleasant.

No man wants to have to go through the taming of the shrew every day. But all too many must, and it destroys them and makes the women even worse.

Blogger Matamoros May 14, 2017 8:14 PM  

Btw, excellent article, as is your The Mother's War.

Anonymous A Deplorable Paradigm Is More Than Twenty Cents May 14, 2017 8:39 PM  

Mocking your man in public creates a no-win situation.

It is not "strong and independent". It is bitchy, immature and obnoxious. It is also very common.

Anonymous Causal Lurker May 14, 2017 8:46 PM  

There's another "home economics" lesson to consider. You just filed your taxes in the U.S. last month, so start adding for the second income:

Income taxes (all kinds)
SS and Medicare taxes

Retirement contributions (IRA, 401(k), whatever)

Auto insurance costs on second vehicle
Fuel costs for work commuting, other commute costs
Second car loan payments
Child care costs
Professional wardrobe costs
Other business or professional costs

Student loan costs

Subtotal and subtract from the second income gross amount

You're very quickly dropping to about 50% of the second income, and this hasn't added the other hidden costs from eating out, coffee an something on the go five days a week, takeout meals, etc.

And this doesn't get into the behavioral issues from lack of parental support, visibility, supervision for your own children, lack of sleep, loss of energy, and so on.

It's difficult on one income, but you can make it work with prayer, good budgeting, and good goals. On two incomes, many times the second income also carries a large, partially hidden psychic or spiritual cost.

Is it worth all the costs?

Blogger Jew613 May 14, 2017 8:48 PM  

Reading Spiting Their Pretty Faces would be better for women seeking marriage or a happier marriage then all the feminist self help books & issues of cosmopolitan ever written.

Blogger VD May 14, 2017 8:57 PM  

Well, MGTOW is a reaction to hatred. Why, exactly, should a man fight for a culture that despises him​? That's the real problem right there.

Because he's not fighting FOR that culture. He's fighting AGAINST that culture.

This really isn't that hard.

MGTOW is exactly what they want men to do. They want men to give up and surrender. MGTOW is the macrosocietal version of the resigning from your job because SJWs attacked you. It is guaranteed defeat.

Anonymous Avalanche May 14, 2017 9:02 PM  

Haven't read the essay yet (will, of course). Am dismayed (yet I mostly agree) with what you said tonight. The heavy heavy burden for a parent deciding to "raise your girls to NOT support themselves," teaching them they will (can?) rely on their husband, the father of the children, to support them is: this pathological society no longer ASSURES women of that! Where the earlier social more's had a man who deserted his wife scorned and shunned BY OTHER MEN, who would refuse to do business with him; today -- alas, even you, Vox, support Roosh who teaches "men" how to trick women into sex. WHO is teaching men to NOT abuse women for their selfish pleasure -- and then HOPE to someday find a 'good woman' to marry?

One of the deepest needs to a woman is security. There is NO SECURITY with men today. No matter how deeply he loved her and promised her forever when he married her -- he can (and often does!) change his mind and leave. And since she was raised to be a wife and a mom (and I agree there is no higher calling), now she has to find some way to support not JUST herself, but also her kids. And despite the divorce-rape many men undergo, almost always the woman is left in a horrible situation too. (And yes, I know, the numbers show most divorces are initiated by the woman; shall we look at how many are cued by the man?)

NEITHER sex is (psychologically/emotionally) healthy; NEITHER sex has any knowledge of -- or has ever seen any pattern for -- a healthy long-term, committed, man-woman relationship.

BOTH sexes need to find a different way! BOTH sexes need to start shunning (or at least discouraging!) their own when they are doing wrong. That means men don't cover up -- or even accept -- when their friends are catting around. Women need to start actively disapproving when women friends (or even acquaintances) disparage or insult men. The discipline it takes to provide the social support (and social punishment!) must be provided by each sex within their own sex!

(And fundie Christians, who want to put "their women" in as deep control and limitation as the damned moslems are no better than the damned moslems! You encourage (and reward) women who 'color within the lines' to your desired society; you don't try to cage them in the kitchen like a an animal. This your PARTNER you're considering here!)

Blogger Lazarus May 14, 2017 9:06 PM  

Commenter wrote:The best things I ever did were to leave my career when it would have geographically separated me from my husband and to stop working when we had kids. I've been a mostly stay home mom for almost eighteen years. Definitely worth the sacrifice.

You are a Mother Warrior. God Bless you and yours.

Blogger Lazarus May 14, 2017 9:10 PM  

Matamoros wrote:I have long said the chief way for a girl/woman to attract and hold a man is for her to be cheerful and pleasant.

No man wants to have to go through the taming of the shrew every day. But all too many must, and it destroys them and makes the women even worse.


Men deal with conflict all day long in the world, they do not want to have to deal with it at home.

Otherwise, "home" will require a redefinition, like , for instance "bar" or "insert name of needy woman here".

Anonymous Sheiko29 May 14, 2017 9:12 PM  

Interesting this is 2003. I will note among professional colleagues it is considered fairly embarrassing to date beneath your social class. I recall an elderly partner once mentioning an especially cute secretary as a marriage potential. Every young associate acted as though he were touting the virtues of beastiality. Dumpster diving is not as acceptable as it once was. What's more - compare the clientele of a Walmart to a Whole Foods. Different species. XXL sweats vs. XS lululemon.

Which isn't to say a stay-at-home wife isn't incredibly desirable. But you want some assurance that there are decent genes to pass on.

Blogger Lazarus May 14, 2017 9:13 PM  

Walter Oleg wrote:and Jesus Christ was single and celibate.

In the material world. Ever hear of the "Bride of Christ"?

Blogger Lazarus May 14, 2017 9:22 PM  

Sheiko29 wrote:Which isn't to say a stay-at-home wife isn't incredibly desirable. But you want some assurance that there are decent genes to pass on.

Gene snob. How do yours hold up, exactly?

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 14, 2017 9:26 PM  

Alan Gould wrote:"Obedience until Death"

Good luck inspiring that sentiment amongst the MGTOWs. I think they just want some peace and quiet for a change.


The key to any political or spiritual movement is leadership.Men in the West are looking for purpose, MGTOWs more than anyone. Single men are a demographic that have more potential for ferocity than anyone else. It just takes a Saint Francis to inspire them.

archerfisher21 wrote:@Walter Oleg

"Walter Oleg wrote:Now to MGTOW. Being MGTOW is fine, BUT IF YOU DO SO YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO DEDICATE YOUR LIFE TO OUR CIVILIZATION. MGTOWs MUST BE WILLING TO BLEED AND DIE BEFORE ANYONE!!!

"

Yeah... you went full retard there. Never go full retard.



You lack vision and spirit. If you care about a future for White children but you're not having any, then I believe it is your duty to live as a holy warrior. If you don't care about a future for White children, then you wouldn't understand.

OpenID archerfisher21 May 14, 2017 9:49 PM  

Walter Oleg wrote:

You lack vision and spirit. If you care about a future for White children but you're not having any, then I believe it is your duty to live as a holy warrior. If you don't care about a future for White children, then you wouldn't understand.


There's plenty of people who believe things without logic or reason to back it up. My own parents believe the world is flat. Does not mean it's true.

Not to mention--I can believe that the white race is important. I can also decide the risk and danger of ending up miserable like many of the married couples I meet has no appeal to me.

Blogger Elizabeth May 14, 2017 9:54 PM  

Sheiko29 wrote:Interesting this is 2003. I will note among professional colleagues it is considered fairly embarrassing to date beneath your social class. I recall an elderly partner once mentioning an especially cute secretary as a marriage potential. Every young associate acted as though he were touting the virtues of beastiality. Dumpster diving is not as acceptable as it once was. What's more - compare the clientele of a Walmart to a Whole Foods. Different species. XXL sweats vs. XS lululemon.

Which isn't to say a stay-at-home wife isn't incredibly desirable. But you want some assurance that there are decent genes to pass on.


Interesting point, though you come off as a snob. "Dumpster diving" indeed.

Fifty years ago, when this elderly lawyer was a child, most men weren't looking for a co-breadwinner, but a wife and mother to his children. So, a lawyer married a secretary, a doctor married a nurse, etc. Now, at least partly due to feminism, there's less marrying across social lines; a lawyer marries another lawyer, instead of a secretary. More concentration of wealth in upper middle-class hands.

Blogger praetorian May 14, 2017 10:07 PM  

But you want some assurance that there are decent genes to pass on.

The problems started when intra-racial assortative breeding (and, worse, breeding-like simulations) got going. The west has always married more cross-class than other civilizations (obviously higher male/lower female typically) and it lead to a middlin' IQ, the best looking women on the planet, a guy setting foot on the moon and all the countries the rest of the world wants to live in.

Anonymous ShadowDweller May 14, 2017 10:08 PM  

@18 Avalanche

Thank you, as a father of daughters I could not have worded that thought any better.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable May 14, 2017 10:11 PM  

Walter, you are in the wrong place and also are not a leader. You should go to wizard chan and ask for a leader, because anyone who would propose a death cult is pre-losing.

Anonymous Stickwick May 14, 2017 10:13 PM  

Thank you, Vox. There is plenty to complain about with modern women, but it gets tiring hearing an endless stream of negativity. I keep coming back to VP, because in addition to hard truth, you offer encouragement, praise when it’s due, and a way forward.

I was one of those women who got suckered into thinking there was nothing special about being a mom. I put off having children in favor of getting degrees. Nobody pressured me — I love my field of work — but somewhere along the way I’d picked up the idea that motherhood meant the end of having a meaningful life. Whenever someone said it might be time for children, I’d feel a deep sense of sadness about having someone refer to me as “mom” instead of “professor.” Moms are a dime-a-dozen. Moms are boring. Nobody cares who you are or what you do when you’re a mom…

Well… now that I am a mom, it’s turned my world upside down. This precious little person calling me “mommy” means more to me than being called “professor” ever could. If only I’d known this years earlier. Problem is, there’s no way to know how transcendentally wonderful motherhood is until you experience it. So, you have to have some other incentive to get a woman to put aside a career and have children. I think you’re right, Vox, that the way to encourage women to become mothers and to have more children is to elevate motherhood again.

I’ve noticed sometimes at social gatherings that stay-at-home moms act sheepish around me when they find out what I do (now part-time) for a living. What does that say about our society? The truth is, I’m a woman of many accomplishments, and I don’t feel outclassed by many women, but those who have multiple children and stay at home to raise them make me feel inferior. I make a point of telling these moms that what they’re doing is infinitely more important — and difficult — than what I do in an office.

Again, thank you, Vox. This is great stuff.

Anonymous LurkingPuppy May 14, 2017 10:13 PM  

Sheiko29 wrote:Interesting this is 2003. I will note among professional colleagues it is considered fairly embarrassing to date beneath your social class. I recall an elderly partner once mentioning an especially cute secretary as a marriage potential. Every young associate acted as though he were touting the virtues of beastiality.
Does this have anything to do with the fact that “goyim” means “cattle”?

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 14, 2017 10:36 PM  

SciVo de Plorable wrote:Walter, you are in the wrong place and also are not a leader. You should go to wizard chan and ask for a leader, because anyone who would propose a death cult is pre-losing.

Anyone just throwing ideas out on the internet is not a leader. That is true. Also, anyone proposing a death cult should be the first to die.This is one of the major lessons I gather from Christianity. Christ was willing to die for his message. The early martyrs were glad to die for the Gospel.Are we in the Alt-Right willing to accept death? I served in Iraq and was ready to die for "Democracy" and to "get the terrorists" (in reality for globalist, Zionist, and corporate interests). But at this point I'm too cowardly to counter protest an illegal immigrant march with a sign reading "You Have to Go Back!"

So you're right again, I am not a leader.

Open question, would getting killed by illegal immigrants during a "Day without Immigrants" march have any benefit for the Alt-Right? Is there any benefit to being martyred at this point?

Blogger Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 May 14, 2017 10:46 PM  

The other not so insignificant elephant in the room is the current family court system. Assuming you are a woman living in the United States telling a man you want to marry him and have children is the legal equivalent of announcing that you want to buy a slave in the deep South circa 1820. Actually - no - correction there slaves in the antebellum South enjoyed more legally enforceable rights than a divorced man does in the modern age in that you couldn't by law, legally starve them to death. Now you'll find a plethora of agencies and companies to help you do this (Maximus anyone?)

Anonymous Camilla Cameo May 14, 2017 10:49 PM  

My sister specifically swore that she would never do anything to undermine or belittle her boyfriend-hopefully-someday-husband's dignity or masculinity. A very good, even essential course of action, methinks.

Blogger James Dixon May 14, 2017 10:58 PM  

I found out last night that youtube-dl will handle periscope. So now I can download your darkstreams rather than trying to stream them, which is problematic at 3Mbps.

Blogger Revelation Means Hope May 14, 2017 11:21 PM  

Hey, is that old article on AlphaGame still getting comments after 10 years? I remember that last time I dropped by a couple years ago to check it out, angry feminists (but I repeat myself) were periodically finding it and leaving comments that underlined and bolded every word of that original post.

I'm curious, Vox. Did the woman mentioned in the original article ever find a good man and start a family?

Blogger Revelation Means Hope May 14, 2017 11:22 PM  

My bad, I was thinking of the article about cutting your hair on AlphaGame, not Spiting Their Faces.

Blogger Lazarus May 14, 2017 11:34 PM  

Walter Oleg wrote:Is there any benefit to being martyred at this point?

Someone said, “No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country.”

So I would say ...... wait for it......

no.

Blogger S. Thermite May 14, 2017 11:37 PM  

@18 Avalanche

You're hysterical. Also, a marriage isn't a partnership, it's a marriage. If it was a partnership then both parties would be equal and free to leave, and there wouldn't be this need to shame men into providing the security that women so desperately need until they change their minds and initiate (as you acknowledged) two-thirds of divorces.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable May 15, 2017 12:13 AM  

Walter Oleg wrote:Are we in the Alt-Right willing to accept death?

Yes, but that would be dumb. Calculate how many country boys would have to go to jail to completely eliminate the regulatory state.

Blogger liberranter May 15, 2017 12:33 AM  

Fifty years ago, when this elderly lawyer was a child, most men weren't looking for a co-breadwinner, but a wife and mother to his children.

Some of us are looking for that still. Odds are that if we're seasoned professionals, we're not going to find any such thing among our female "peers" in the workplace.

As has been noted often hereabouts, a man deals with drama, politics, negativity, and relentless competition and backstabbing all day long in the workplace. Only a masochistic moron would marry that so that he could face it at home each night.

Anonymous Tipsy May 15, 2017 12:40 AM  

Cleanup on aisle 39-41....

Anonymous Tipsy May 15, 2017 12:49 AM  

Lazarus wrote:
Men deal with conflict all day long in the world, they do not want to have to deal with it at home.


From the Song of the Bell, by Schiller:

Der Mann muß hinaus
Ins feindliche Leben,
Muß wirken und streben
Und pflanzen und schaffen,
Erlisten, erraffen,
Muß wetten und wagen,
Das Glück zu erjagen.

The man must go out
To stern hostile life,
For power and strife,
To plant and to toil,
To gain and to foil,
To wager and dare,
His luck to ensnare.

Blogger VD May 15, 2017 3:53 AM  

One of the deepest needs to a woman is security. There is NO SECURITY with men today. No matter how deeply he loved her and promised her forever when he married her -- he can (and often does!) change his mind and leave. And since she was raised to be a wife and a mom (and I agree there is no higher calling), now she has to find some way to support not JUST herself, but also her kids. And despite the divorce-rape many men undergo, almost always the woman is left in a horrible situation too.

This need for security is exactly what those trying to destroy women and marriage play upon. The more you seek that security through law and feminism, the less you will find it.

Blogger Vikki Wilson May 15, 2017 4:23 AM  

I hear the "get back to the kitchen" guys on the periscope and I do think 'good luck with that'.

Honestly the best way to revolutionise the way women regard you is to be up front about the seriously you regard marriage and family: you are looking for the person who you will marry.

When she recovers from the shock of hearing this the thing is actions not words - you want tradition, then cultivate the virtues of a traditional man that a person could have confidence in to build a home together. You can support her in cultivating the virtues of traditional women.

Giving someone the opportunity of a life of being ordered around by a fantasist is not going to do it for you.

Blogger Vikki Wilson May 15, 2017 4:27 AM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger SteelPalm May 15, 2017 5:08 AM  

Two outstanding articles Vox, particularly the one about motherhood.

Never read your WND columns or even knew about you back then, but those are some real gems.

Indeed, I agree that the men who have become embittered towards women thanks to feminism have simply succumbed to the devilish SJW tricks the same way women lending credence to feminism have.

Blogger szopen May 15, 2017 5:35 AM  

Mocking your man in public creates a no-win situation.
Thing I love about my wife: while in private she will criticise me and we would often fight, she never, never attacked me in public. In fact many times she was defending my positions even when in private she would disagree, against her family and her own friends. One of the reasons I am still so enamoured with her.

Blogger Alan Gould May 15, 2017 5:46 AM  

@Walter Oleg

Credit where it's due; "Beta Male Death Cult" is as concise a description of Islam as any I've heard.

But how many of the great unmarried men you allude to would be likely to join such a movement, do you think? How many such men would a 'Death Cult" be likely to produce? You use these examples to establish the validity of a non- procreative life, but don't appear to understand why these individuals chose to live the way they did.

You are right that political and spiritual movements require leadership but that is neither sufficient nor is it the most fundamental necessity. They first need spiritual force. I do not see such spiritual force in your proposal, only a kind of fantasy and death wish. It sounds more like the ideology of the suicide bomber than of the Paladin, especially since you've explicitly defined it in opposition to procreation. Martyrdom under these terms is not only strategically unnecessary, but also seems a kind of...stupid.

Blogger wreckage May 15, 2017 5:59 AM  

@50, I think he's saying that for men that cannot abide the risks of an attempt to marry and procreate, the only honourable way to proceed is total, utter, dedication to the West.

In the past, this was more or less how it was done: you devoted yourself utterly to family, or you devoted yourself utterly to the community (via monastic orders). He envisions a militant sect as more in keeping with the needs of the times.

Blogger wreckage May 15, 2017 6:01 AM  

"Unfortunately we've come to heap praise on so many undeserving mothers that the whole thing has lost real meaning."

Any woman who manages 2+ children has at least provided against the short-term extinction of our civilization. Any woman who has had 3-4, who is herself not genetically defective, should get a medal.

Ideals can wait. Survival first. Unpucker.

Blogger Elizabeth May 15, 2017 6:48 AM  

liberranter wrote:Fifty years ago, when this elderly lawyer was a child, most men weren't looking for a co-breadwinner, but a wife and mother to his children.

Some of us are looking for that still. Odds are that if we're seasoned professionals, we're not going to find any such thing among our female "peers" in the workplace.

As has been noted often hereabouts, a man deals with drama, politics, negativity, and relentless competition and backstabbing all day long in the workplace. Only a masochistic moron would marry that so that he could face it at home each night.


The home was called "a haven in a heartless world."

Anonymous Athor Pel May 15, 2017 7:55 AM  

"46. Blogger Vikki Wilson May 15, 2017 4:23 AM
...
you want tradition, then cultivate the virtues of a traditional man that a person could have confidence in to build a home together. You can support her in cultivating the virtues of traditional women.

Giving someone the opportunity of a life of being ordered around by a fantasist is not going to do it for you.
"




"culitvate the virtues of a traditional man" according to Vikki Wilson

Honey, it's not your place to define what a man is.

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 15, 2017 8:09 AM  

Alan Gould wrote:@Walter Oleg

Credit where it's due; "Beta Male Death Cult" is as concise a description of Islam as any I've heard.

But how many of the great unmarried men you allude to would be likely to join such a movement, do you think? How many such men would a 'Death Cult" be likely to produce? You use these examples to establish the validity of a non- procreative life, but don't appear to understand why these individuals chose to live the way they did.

You are right that political and spiritual movements require leadership but that is neither sufficient nor is it the most fundamental necessity. They first need spiritual force. I do not see such spiritual force in your proposal, only a kind of fantasy and death wish. It sounds more like the ideology of the suicide bomber than of the Paladin, especially since you've explicitly defined it in opposition to procreation. Martyrdom under these terms is not only strategically unnecessary, but also seems a kind of...stupid.


If it works for Islam, why can't it work for us? I'm not proposing a non-pro-creative life for everyone, just men that can't or don't want to have families. The Christian saints I mentioned gave up a family to serve something bigger. That's what I'm suggesting.

Also, you mention the spiritual. I believe in the spiritual qualities of blood. This is another secret of Christianity. The willingness to shed blood (and possibly die) for a cause in advancing it. On Sunday some denominations drink spiritual blood in remembrance of this.

Picture someone attending an antifa meeting. At the proper time he stands up and starts screaming "You Will not replace us you anti-White fu(ks." All 30 antifas get up and attack this man with knives and sticks. He kills seven of them (in self defense) before being killed himself.

He doesn't die willingly to go to "heaven" (nobody knows what happens when we die, probably nothing IMO). He dies to inspire others (as Zarathustra preaches in Thus Spoke Zarathustra) but it's the blood the matters. The blood spilling to the ground is a holy sacrament of the Beta Death Cult.

Spilled blood in the service of race and civilization is the highest sacrament. I'm not saying this choice is everyone. But if it's between this, or living a life of fap, video games, and sports-ball, I believe this is far superior.

It's the blood you see.

The blood.

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 15, 2017 8:14 AM  

wreckage wrote:@50, I think he's saying that for men that cannot abide the risks of an attempt to marry and procreate, the only honourable way to proceed is total, utter, dedication to the West.

In the past, this was more or less how it was done: you devoted yourself utterly to family, or you devoted yourself utterly to the community (via monastic orders). He envisions a militant sect as more in keeping with the needs of the times.


You got sir. You have vision above these infidels. This isn't a time for serving lepers or caring for orphans.

Anonymous Kevin May 15, 2017 8:55 AM  

All my professional male friends married professionals who work full time. Kids in day care. Doctors no longer marry nurses, they marry other doctors; lawyers marry lawyers. Miserable life for the kids.

Also interesting the different culture approach. Asians and Indians almost uniformly are two career families and don't care at all about it. All kids in daycare. Divorce tends to be rare. However, these female Asian professionals still on average come across as far more feminine than the female secretaries I encounter.

Blogger Vikki Wilson May 15, 2017 8:57 AM  

Athor Pel wrote:"46. Blogger Vikki Wilson May 15, 2017 4:23 AM

...

you want tradition, then cultivate the virtues of a traditional man that a person could have confidence in to build a home together. You can support her in cultivating the virtues of traditional women.

Giving someone the opportunity of a life of being ordered around by a fantasist is not going to do it for you.

"


"culitvate the virtues of a traditional man" according to Vikki Wilson

Honey, it's not your place to define what a man is.



Honey.
You flatter me. I am not the inventor of a personal or even a wimmyn-centered definition of the ‘traditional virtues’ of men (or women). I am simply using commonly understood concepts that even now, in 2017, still have wide cultural currency.

Blogger Matt Robison May 15, 2017 10:11 AM  

If you are looking at porn, you are not really a MGTOW. You are a slave to your passions. Only a very small percentage of men can be productive and useful (in the way we are talking about) without raising a family. And you probably aren't one of those men. There is a gift of celibacy, similar to what the apostle Paul had, but you aren't Paul.

Blogger Alan Gould May 15, 2017 11:47 AM  

@Walter Oleg

"If it works for Islam, why can't it work for us?"

It doesn't work for Islam. Generally speaking, suicide attacks are a very stupid and desperate strategy. Especially if you want to preserve the White race.

"I'm not suggesting a non-procreative life for everyone"

Obviously not. What kind of white nationalist would that make you?

"Picture someone attending an antifa meeting. At the proper time he stands up and starts screaming "you will not replace us you anti-White flecks." All 30 antifas get up and attack this man with knives and sticks. He kills seven of them (in self defence) before being killed himself"

How do you suppose this incident would be reported by the media? What would be the likely police response? Where would public sympathy swing in the aftermath? This is the epitome of dealing your enemy a small injury. And you gave the other side six more martyrs than you yourself gained (assuming your guy does indeed manage to martyr himself after taking a gun to a knife fight).

Regarding your point about the Saints abandoning family for a higher cause; Of course they did, but I do not think that their calling resembled the one you think they ought to have followed. There is a communication gap at work here, so I'll comment no further.

I think you're suffering from ennui, and are veering close to nihilism. This is not a criticism; ennui is arguably the most devastating mental affliction of the West, and it's admirable that you're trying to fight it through a search for a transcendent cause.

But you still have some way to go.

You should write that book, btw.

Oh, and Happy belated Mother's Day to all the moms. We love you deeply :)





Blogger Avalanche May 15, 2017 12:04 PM  

@35 "My sister specifically swore that she would never do anything to undermine or belittle her boyfriend-hopefully-someday-husband's dignity or masculinity. A very good, even essential course of action, methinks."

When my husband was courting me, we spent many hours on the phone (cross-continent courting...) He asked me once: If I wanted to REALLY hurt him, what would I say to him? (And that was even before I fell in love with him!)

I was aghast!
A. I could not think of anything I would ever say to hurt him! And
B. I would never so insult or disrespect a man to say some-such-thing even if I COULD think of something!!

He was relieved, and said his 'step-nieces' would say the most horrible, disrespectful things about their husbands (!) in public!

A man cannot trust/rely on a man whose woman (who supposedly knows him best) if she puts him down in public. And a man cannot respect a man he daren't rely on. (WOULD that all women were taught that!!)

Blogger The Mojobongo May 15, 2017 12:11 PM  

I was recently mansplaining to my wife this exact difference between VD and GRRM. On mother's day, Vox gives us interesting insight into the importance of women. And I don't care when he finishes the Arts of Dark and Light because almost every day he puts out fascinating, thought-provoking material. Meanwhile, GRRM spews out nonsense about what "spinoff" means and doesn't mean, and which stories from Westeros will not be included in the new spinoff. After using his time to say absolutely nothing meaningful, he wonders why there aren't enough hours in a day to finish the only thing anyone actually gives a fuck if he works on.

Blogger Avalanche May 15, 2017 12:28 PM  

@45 VD: "This need for security is exactly what those trying to destroy women and marriage play upon. The more you seek that security through law and feminism, the less you will find it."

Oh I agree completely!! I often teach my students on my advice list that this civilization was infiltrated and destroyed BY subverting the women! The very things that are superb strengths for women in an ALL-WHITE society were and are the key to destroying it!

White women ARE innately (i.e. biologically) drawn to nurture and care for children -- which is a STRENGTH when surrounded by White children! When White men 'let their thumbs up off women' and brought in the child-race of negroes women, by Nature, were drawn to 'care' for them! (+#%&$^&* it!)

When society *enforced* behavior: not by laws, but by the thing that moves WAY more women than laws: disappointment in them, shunning them, turning away from them; and for men, by disrespect from other men (respect from women doesn't count) and the refusal by "good" men to join with, back up, or support the "cads"; then the strengths of each sex could build a healthy functioning society!

But, the ... sticking point ... I always see in the "let's recover our civilization" movements is that the MEN who would do this do NOT wish to give up their freedom to divorce/not support their kids (if the woman proves unsatisfactory in some way or just gets old!) -- or the freedom to screw any young woman they can trick into bed (and here we are back to Roosh and his ilk!) and the hell with it ruining (women and) the civilization -- or the complete lack of social / business / money / trust / friendship repudiation for cads and weasels.

The women do not wish to give up the security they get by having the man (yes, FORCED to) uphold his pledge "till death us do part" -- and the seeming security they get from (at least socially enforced) monogamy (so he won't use up his resources on some OTHER woman to the detriment of the woman he promised to support and her / their kids).

LETTING women "free," so that men could be "free" was a really and truly BAD deal; but men accepted it when our enemies instituted it. And, you'll notice our enemies SOLD it first to the women! And once you subvert the women, it's pretty much all lost unless / until the men are willing to fight. (The deadly flaw in high-trust White men: subversion is easy because THEY wouldn't do it -- it's dishonorable!)

I love and respect men (men, not "males") and I support them taking back our civilization -- by force if necessary, and even though it 'harms' me in my life -- because this is the civilization I wish to live out my days in!

Blogger Avalanche May 15, 2017 12:35 PM  

I'm reminded of the 'true' answer to the way men recoil from a "needy" woman.

Men think that is their woman seems needy, if they "give in" and attend to her, her demands will just keep increasing and increasing until the man drowns! However, IF you actually attend to the "neediness," if you FILL the need, then the neediness becomes less. (Granted, not always - there ARE pathological 'black holes' but don't marry one, eh?)

Think about it -- if someone is STARVING, how do they grasp for food?! DO they not spend all their time trying to get some food, looking and asking, and pleading for ANY little bit of food? But, if they know they can always have food when they need it, they QUIT needing it with desperation and fear that they'll never get it again!

Turning away, refusing to answer a woman's neediness (again, there's a balance between neediness and pathology), merely increases (a normal woman's) *hunger* -- and won't solve the problem.

Blogger Avalanche May 15, 2017 12:38 PM  

@52 "Any woman who has had 3-4, who is herself not genetically defective, should get a medal."

Like, say, a German Motherhood Medal?!
http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_image.cfm?image_id=2044

Blogger Avalanche May 15, 2017 12:53 PM  

@54 ""culitvate the virtues of a traditional man" according to Vikki Wilson
Honey, it's not your place to define what a man is."

No, it's MEN'S place -- and which of you is disavowing the Pick-up Artist crap?! Or the MGTOW (not so much disavowing the hurt-boys they are, but the system that has made them possible?!) Which of you is shunning the men who teach other men to trick White women into screwing around. (I'm sorry, Vox, to "insult" (or accurately describe!) your ally: I know you support and back him -- but Roosh is a pretty typical arab male, in that he thinks it's just FINE to screw any White women he can "catch." HE has no attachment to saving WHITE civilization!)

A part of women's 'rebellion' against male-managed civilization is that men have quit disciplining OTHER men! That harms women. And if you're not going to discipline them, TO PROTECT WOMEN, then why should women 'volunteer' to accept your 'discipline'?

To my AMAZEMENT (as a shrill, albeit recovering, feminist) I turned out to be more than willing to subordinate myself to my 'traditional male' husband (albeit, not religious but rather: he would have been a roman warrior -- or an Aztec -- feeling he would have fit in there, where he did not in modern society)!

A neighbor teen asked once, when I came out in our ungodly hot summer weather to give my husband (who was mowing the lawn) ice water and some paper towels -- as I did whenever he mowed -- "how he 'got' me to do that?" I said: "I am SO grateful for how well he takes care of me, that I am happy to "see to his ease" whenever I can." (My feminist / socialist sisters thought I was horrible and so was he!)

But when he was courting me, I was a bit strenuous that I was NOT going to become "the house servant" merely because I was marrying! (pure feminism; for which I apologize to all men here!) Since he agreed, I discovered that I was HAPPY to be his 'first mate'; to negotiate for what I wanted, and to accept gracefully when he refused. (Whodda thunk it?!?!)

BUT -- if you want women to 'go back' -- then you men must also go back! I told my ladies: if you swoon over and want all the courtliness and manners of Mr. Darcy -- then you have to ACCEPT THE RESTRICTIONS of those ladies! You don't GET one without the other! Which means BOTH sexes must return to White civilization -- with all the good AND bad that entails individually!

Blogger Duke Norfolk May 15, 2017 12:56 PM  

Avalanche wrote:One of the deepest needs to a woman is security.

Avalanche, I must say I loved your comments on this post. It's great to get the perspective of a good traditional wife/woman on this and I think you're spot on.

Of course too many people (both men and women) get defensive and solipsistic when this kind of topic comes up (as with so many others) and nobody learns anything that would help them to better understand the world and improve themselves. Your wisdom in this is appreciated by me if no one else.

Blogger Avalanche May 15, 2017 1:03 PM  

@29 and @67 Thank you. Honored to be able to contribute.

I'm too old to go "man" the battlements at rallies and such; so I continue to work as I can: advising young women (and men) about the TRUTH of relationships; and helping/pushing neighbors (and my tribe) to arm themselves and prepare!

SO much of 'intersex' communication and the ability to find each other has been poisoned and degraded by 'our foreign overlords' -- and helping younglings to learn how it's supposed to be, I sincerely hope, can help our Alt Right, Alt White, Alt West -- any of OUR folks -- find their mate and marry and carry on our civilization!

Blogger SirHamster May 15, 2017 6:48 PM  

Avalanche wrote:No, it's MEN'S place -- and which of you is disavowing the Pick-up Artist crap?! Or the MGTOW (not so much disavowing the hurt-boys they are, but the system that has made them possible?!) Which of you is shunning the men who teach other men to trick White women into screwing around. (I'm sorry, Vox, to "insult" (or accurately describe!) your ally: I know you support and back him -- but Roosh is a pretty typical arab male, in that he thinks it's just FINE to screw any White women he can "catch." HE has no attachment to saving WHITE civilization!)

So much shame.

Maybe if you shame harder, some more white knights will ride to the rescue.

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 15, 2017 6:55 PM  

Alan Gould wrote:@Walter Oleg

1) It doesn't work for Islam. Generally speaking, suicide attacks are a very stupid and desperate strategy. Especially if you want to preserve the White race.


2) Regarding your point about the Saints abandoning family for a higher cause; Of course they did, but I do not think that their calling resembled the one you think they ought to have followed. There is a communication gap at work here, so I'll comment no further.

3) I think you're suffering from ennui, and are veering close to nihilism. This is not a criticism; ennui is arguably the most devastating mental affliction of the West, and it's admirable that you're trying to fight it through a search for a transcendent cause.


1) My major point is that if someone cases about the future of the West, and they don't want a family, that they should be out front as activists since they have less to lose. They should be willing to accept losses in status, job opportunities, prison, and death with all the fanaticism of the early Christians. I'm not talking about suicide attacks because they're bad PR.

2) There's no communication problem, the saints gave up on family life to totally dedicate themselves to the Gospel. I'm talking about men giving up family and dedicating themselves to race and civilization. Yes, their calling was different but the basic template remains the same; men serving in a community for a larger purpose.

3) I would describe my self as an existentialist trying to figure out a mission for my life. I could write the book, but this too would be an excuse for inaction. Right now I am single and have no plans for marriage but am too cowardly to live as Zarathustra preaches. I'm too attached still to my blood.

We can end the conversation though.

Blogger SirHamster May 15, 2017 7:21 PM  

Walter Oleg wrote:He doesn't die willingly to go to "heaven" (nobody knows what happens when we die, probably nothing IMO).

You're asking a lot while offering nothing.

Walter Oleg wrote:Spilled blood in the service of race and civilization is the highest sacrament.

No, it is not. Those are things of this world, while the Kingdom of God is higher and more worthy than either of those.

Blogger Avalanche May 15, 2017 8:06 PM  

@69 "So much shame.
Maybe if you shame harder, some more white knights will ride to the rescue."

I don't know "Sir" Hamster if you're being facetious or are chastising me for calling out males misusing women, while they call on the women to fix what's been done to the civilization.

Who, then, should call men to account, since other men won't do it? Why is it not the challenge of white (White!) knights to ride to the rescue of White women. Have you never read any fairy tales (to your daughters, if not yourself) where the White knight rides to rescue the fair damsel who has been ENSORCELLED by the evil shekelmeister?! WHO will lead White women back to their race and nation if NOT White men?!

Blogger SirHamster May 15, 2017 8:18 PM  

Avalanche wrote:Who, then, should call men to account, since other men won't do it? Why is it not the challenge of white (White!) knights to ride to the rescue of White women. Have you never read any fairy tales (to your daughters, if not yourself) where the White knight rides to rescue the fair damsel who has been ENSORCELLED by the evil shekelmeister?! WHO will lead White women back to their race and nation if NOT White men?!

Picture a Luke Skywalker bored at being a farmboy, when suddenly an old crone pops up and starts nagging him to save the galaxy.

Inspiring start, isn't it?

"Honey, honey, honey—a thousand times honey. Never vinegar."


Or to be more blunt: How can shame motivate the shameless and over-shamed?

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 15, 2017 8:32 PM  

SirHamster wrote:Walter Oleg wrote:He doesn't die willingly to go to "heaven" (nobody knows what happens when we die, probably nothing IMO).

1) You're asking a lot while offering nothing.

Walter Oleg wrote:Spilled blood in the service of race and civilization is the highest sacrament.

2) No, it is not. Those are things of this world, while the Kingdom of God is higher and more worthy than either of those.


1) I offer the chance to advance the survival of the race and civilization.

2) Until you can prove that the "Kingdom of God" exists then all we have are "the things of this world."

All we know for sure is that we exist right now. Life is suffering. We live in a universe with limited resources, and the universe doesn't care about you. All we can do is find a collective of people with a common history and try to survive and advance our ourselves. The people willing to die for this die purely because it will advance the collective. These are people who don't need a heaven to die for.

And when I do die if there is a Cuck-God that tells me I was supposed to adopt non-White babies and allow my race be genocided, then I will tell Him to Fu(k Himself.

Blogger SirHamster May 15, 2017 9:09 PM  

Walter Oleg wrote:1) I offer the chance to advance the survival of the race and civilization.

2) Until you can prove that the "Kingdom of God" exists then all we have are "the things of this world."


1.) Which has zero lasting value, according to your own belief, to the men you offer it to. The feminists have the exact same offer. "Sacrifice your life for Grrl Power and get nothing."

Skin in the game is a time-tested rule of thumb that Antifragile uses to the cut the bullshit. You don't even have skin in the game you propose. You're just trying to cargo cult some blood magic by imitating the form of godliness while denying its power. And not by doing it yourself and leading the way like a Jim Jones or Mohammed, but trying to entice someone else to do it.

2.) The man who died on a cross and rose from the dead proved it. You are the one trying to usurp his rightful place with dead concepts.

I call them dead not because they must be so, but because when you elevate them as you do, you cut their root from what gives Life.

The Secular Progressive Civilization cult has already failed. So has the Awesome Race of X cult.

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 15, 2017 9:54 PM  

SirHamster wrote:Walter Oleg wrote:1)

1.) Which has zero lasting value, according to your own belief, to the men you offer it to. The feminists have the exact same offer. "Sacrifice your life for Grrl Power and get nothing."

Skin in the game is a time-tested rule of thumb that Antifragile uses to the cut the bullshit. You don't even have skin in the game you propose. You're just trying to cargo cult some blood magic by imitating the form of godliness while denying its power. And not by doing it yourself and leading the way like a Jim Jones or Mohammed, but trying to entice someone else to do it.

2.) The man who died on a cross and rose from the dead proved it. You are the one trying to usurp his rightful place with dead concepts.

I call them dead not because they must be so, but because when you elevate them as you do, you cut their root from what gives Life.

The Secular Progressive Civilization cult has already failed. So has the Awesome Race of X cult.


1) It has lasting value but not infinite value, since everything will eventually end. But it's the best thing we can work towards. Building an intergalactic civilization. You are correct that to get something like this going I will have to put myself out there. I'm not trying to entice anyone to do anything, but merely discussing an idea on an internet site.

2) I suspect your impudent tone is really rooted in the fact that you don't really 100% believe in what you preach. You cannot "prove" that heaven exists by telling me that a man 2000 years ago rose from the dead AND YOU KNOW IT! In fact, I believe the story of Jesus is more impressive because he didn't rise from the dead. If you're God, then it's easy to accept death. But a mortal man is another story. He died while preaching a gospel of detachment, acceptance, and non-resentment, knowing that he didn't know what would happen when he died. He taught a way of dealing with suffering by accepting (someone steals your robe, give them your cloak...Someone hits you, turn you head and let them hit you again) the world as it is (render to Caesar what is Caesar's). Jesus was preaching a state of mind (the Kingdom of Heaven is within you). The crucifix is a holy symbol because it features a man, arms spread out saying "I accept whatever happens to me."

Unlike you, I'm at least suggesting dying for the advancement of a people, not making false promises of eternal bliss which no one can prove. You see I won't lie to people and tell them I know what will happen when they die. But again, just like Christ, to get something like this off the ground I will have to carry my own cross. And at this point I'm too cowardly.

Blogger SirHamster May 15, 2017 10:46 PM  

Walter Oleg wrote:1) It has lasting value but not infinite value, since everything will eventually end. But it's the best thing we can work towards. Building an intergalactic civilization. You are correct that to get something like this going I will have to put myself out there. I'm not trying to entice anyone to do anything, but merely discussing an idea on an internet site.

1.) Who is this "we"? I note that you were trying to plant the idea of dying in Antifa meetings because powerful blood ritual. Whatever that "we" is, it involves you typing at a keyboard while someone else dies for the cause.

Just like feminism.


Walter Oleg wrote:2) I suspect your impudent tone is really rooted in the fact that you don't really 100% believe in what you preach. You cannot "prove" that heaven exists by telling me that a man 2000 years ago rose from the dead AND YOU KNOW IT! In fact, I believe the story of Jesus is more impressive because he didn't rise from the dead.

2.) Complaining about the tone of factual responses? If only there was a term for emotional status-obsessed thinkers.

You are projecting about hypocritical preaching - I poked holes in your position because I believe, and it is stupid for you to lie about my mental state. Jesus rising from the dead proves his claims about reality and heaven. That you have to use scare quotes for "prove" shows that you know it, too.

In any case, if you believe in a dead Christ, how much more dead are your gods of race and civilization. Dead on arrival.

Anonymous kjj May 16, 2017 12:26 AM  

@Avalanche

Somewhere around 90% of divorces are ultimately decided by the woman. We are literally powerless to lead by example because overwhelmingly, we already don't want to break up our families. Bitching that men need to "man up" is stupid.

The answer that I see proposed most credibly is for men and women to jump together. Abolish no-fault, unilateral divorce, and either make joint custody the default or make father-custody the default (as it was for most of what we consider to be western civilization prior to ~1900). Also revisit all old cases with this standard in mind.

@Walter Oleg

The evidence is perfectly clear that hundreds of people really believed that they had personally witnessed Jesus after he died and rose from the dead. That is about as well established as any other historical fact from that era that wasn't literally carved in stone.

While that doesn't prove that it really happened, it should shatter your dream of forming a cult of nihilism centered around how you imagine he accepted his death.

You should be able to find to fit your needs plenty of devout atheists that were martyred for their indifference.

P.S. It was very shameful to be naked in Judea, but even more shameful to cause someone to be naked in public. Jesus is preaching rebellion - if a person demands your outer garment, either a creditor demanding it as payment, or an official confiscating it, give him your under garment too. In other words, even from the bottom of the social ladder, you can shame those that mistreat you.

P.P.S. At the time of Jesus, striking someone deemed to be of a lower class with the back of the hand was used to assert authority and dominance. If the persecuted person "turned the other cheek," the discipliner was faced with a dilemma. The left hand was used for unclean purposes, so a back-hand strike on the opposite cheek would not be performed. An alternative would be a slap with the open hand as a challenge or to punch the person, but this was seen as a statement of equality. Thus, by turning the other cheek the persecuted was demanding equality.

Blogger wreckage May 16, 2017 9:37 AM  

@64, Hitler did more to destroy the notions of nationalism, pride, and motherhood in Germany than anyone before or since.

@66 It's just mutual care. Feminists would expect a man to bring them cold water if they were mowing, but if a woman does it it's humiliating somehow? My wife takes care of me, and I of her. The result looks suspiciously "traditional", but really the "traditional" part is only what made us able to comfortably accept the simple truths of life.

I'm not saying you're wrong, by the way, just pointing out that "traditions" and "culture" are simply the behaviours that have proven effective in dealing with reality. That's why feminists who do have successful relationships and children have to develop really bizarre blind-spots and rationales, in order to ignore how closely their own behaviour mimics traditional behaviour. Pretty funny to watch, from the outside.

Blogger wreckage May 16, 2017 9:41 AM  

As for marriage, my family and my wife's family are both traditional, and both from the same community. If she frivolously divorces me, she will be shamed in the eyes of her family, and the same applies to me if I go chasing a bit on the side.

It works pretty well, but you must maintain the social structures that it depends on.

Anonymous Walter Oleg May 16, 2017 6:33 PM  

Sirhamster and Kjj,

I leave with you with sacred scripture Matt 27:51-53

51 At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. 53 After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.…

LOLz

Blogger SirHamster May 16, 2017 7:05 PM  

Walter Oleg wrote:LOLz

Not an argument. Self-proclaimed coward wants the power of Christ without dying and living like him.

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