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Saturday, July 15, 2017

Regression to the mean

This is the statistical reality that will always confound the civic nationalists and their ideals of uplift. Iron Spartan comments concerning a couple with whom he is acquainted.
There are a pair of black doctors married to each other at a local hospital. They have two sons and a daughter. With every advantage normally associated with whites, one son failed out of high school, (which is an achievement on its own in the current education environment) went to prison for stealing cars and breaking into houses shortly after his 18th birthday, the other son made it into college and failed out by midterms, and the daughter has two kids by different daddies before she turned 18.
It doesn't matter how well you train the cat to fetch or teach the dog to use the litter box. Their kittens and puppies are naturally going to revert to what is normal behavior for their kind if they are not subjected to exactly the same training by external forces that their parents were. It is one of the great ironies of the Civil Rights movement that racism, segregation, and the continuous repression of the black minority may have been the primary contributor to keeping the black family together in the USA.

Conservatives always like to blame the Great Society for the demise of the black family, but the reality is that the influence of its perverse incentives were relatively limited. It appears that the most destructive aspect of the Great Society, in this particular regard, is that it permitted African-Americans to return to the dyscivilizational social arrangments historically preferred in African culture.

Every race has its exceptional individuals. Every race has statistical aberrations who should not be judged by the general stereotypes and averages. But societal policies that are made on the basis of exceptions and aberrations are almost guaranteed to be disastrous, whether the outliers are to the right or the left side of the Bell Curve.

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134 Comments:

Anonymous Tar Heel July 15, 2017 1:07 PM  

Understood, Dark Lord. I always respond to the knee-jerk "Not all [...] are like that!" with "But too many are!" Perhaps there is better rhetoric to be applied, and which can be tailored according to the particular group referenced.

Blogger Elizabeth July 15, 2017 1:22 PM  

There are such things as group characteristics, good and bad. What are sociology and anthropology but the study of cultures?

Blogger dc.sunsets July 15, 2017 1:23 PM  

Not enough info here.

While schlepping drugs I knew a married couple, primary care docs (and black) who were both about as dumb as a bag of hammers.

Affirmative Action In Action.

Pretty much the only people who would see them as patients were also black, and both were hit with a well-above-average number of malpractice suits.(This might have been a logical consequence of ineptitude or, given how blacks see lawsuits as nothing but lotteries with better odds, a major case of sample bias.)

Speaking of sample bias, kids of doctors are (in my experience) above average in crash-and-burn. Something about excessively arrogant parents, I think.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore July 15, 2017 1:25 PM  

Oh snap! I'm dense. This post reminds me of something I read. I went back through my browsing history and accessed the article. When I first read it, I never bothered to read the author's name, Walter S. Lind.

https://www.traditionalright.com/the-civil-rights-movement/

Anonymous One Deplorable DT July 15, 2017 1:31 PM  

Those who support massive immigration from India like to brag that America is getting India's 'best and brightest.' Perhaps. But their children will regress to the mean just the same.

And India's average IQ is 82.

They have to go back.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 15, 2017 1:31 PM  

Anti-racism is a special case of Public Choice Theory's "concentrated benefits, diffuse costs." The SJW concentrates his/her status-seeking narcisissm good-feelz while diffusing the costs among those whose kids must attend schools with savages, those who lose out on a deserved promotion, school admission or job to a melanin-privileged applicant, or are treated to crime victimization via Section 8 seeding of their neighborhood, town or city.

SJW's literally sacrafice others (especially unwilling participants in school and neighborhood desegregation) as part of nothing more than status-seeking. Coprophagic beetles occupy a higher status in the animal kingdom.

Anonymous I'm Not a Fascist. But My Sons Are. July 15, 2017 1:40 PM  

societal policies that are made on the basis of exceptions and aberrations

And thus the priority placed on lowering every conceivable bar by whatever means necessary and giving undue advantage to the naturally unadvantaged. 'Synthesizing the Mean', as it were.

'They' are perfectly aware of the fact that Equality is a fiction. Until, that is, everyone is equally unadvantaged; also by whatever means necessary.

Blogger Jack Morrow July 15, 2017 1:53 PM  

Submitted for your approval, the examples of the highly intelligent, educated, competent Negro women who were the subjects of the recent book and movie Hidden Figures. They were educated in a segregated school system in Virginia, where the Negro schools provided a much better education than is available in the integrated schools today.

Anonymous Colorado Confederate July 15, 2017 1:57 PM  

@4 Al from Bay Shore:

"Accurate history is not to be written, only history that serves ideological ends, especially 'liberation.' Cultural Marxism yields the worst of all Puritanisms, Puritanism without God." -- William S. Lind, The Civil Rights movement

Anonymous Johnny Mayonnaise July 15, 2017 2:02 PM  

I always respond to the knee-jerk "Not all [...] are like that!" with "But too many are!"

"too many" = most?

Anonymous Just another commenter July 15, 2017 2:04 PM  

We know that selective breeding for specific traits DOES work; it’s been used in innumerable species from flowers to food grains to foxes. One question that occurs to me is that given enough generations, how many generations at different levels and types of selective pressure would it take to meaningfully alter the average behavior and/or IQ of any given human population group?

I.e., if (for example) a genetically-related population of a million were tested for behavior and IQ, and the top 10% were strongly incentivized to have lots (10+) kids, the next quartile incentivized to have four-six kids, the bottom 10% sterilized, and the rest given no incentive at all, how many generations would it take to shift the mean up a SDEV, or even a half of one? Does preferential breeding of the "top" group help more, or less, than weeding out the least desirable from the breeding population? Is doing both simultaneously significantly more effective than focusing only on helping/hindering the breeding of one end of the scale? Or would it be faster to sterilize the bottom half, and only modestly incentivize the top half?

If the mean IQ data about the various genetic populations is correct, clearly the human potential is higher than the current average. So... how best to get there, both from a scientific and an ethical perspective is a very interesting question.

Blogger VD July 15, 2017 2:05 PM  

I would first ask them if it makes sense to make social policy on the basis of the 10 percent most retarded invididuals, those with an average IQ of 50 or less. Then ask them why they think it will work any better if it is made on the basis of the top 10 percent.

Some will fail to grasp the point, but most should be able to follow the logic.

Blogger Al From Bay Shore July 15, 2017 2:07 PM  

@9 What kinda rabbit hole did the Manosphere launch me into? Initially I came for for the LvM and self improvement stuff. There ain't no going back.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 15, 2017 2:13 PM  

All I know is what my (teacher) wife tells me: here 4th grade classes are now filled with cognitively stunted savages.

Unnatural selection, the welfare state variety.

It is an axiom of human behavior that more supply will develop for whatever receives excess (monetary) demand.

Pay people for being poor and dysfunctional? Get lots more of them.

The welfare state literally promotes the growth of poverty, of crime, of child abuse & neglect, of dysfunctional culture, of self-destruction and idiocy.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 2:13 PM  

Al From Bay Shore wrote:What kinda rabbit hole did the Manosphere launch me into?
As they say on /pol/ "I just wnated to play video games, now I'm busting international pedophile rings and taking down the banksters."

Blogger snod snodwon July 15, 2017 2:18 PM  

we cherry picked the best and brightest from india and china when the policies were restrictive on immigration to the us. that's why there's a persistent stereotype in america that indians and chinese are very smart people. it used to be true!

it is very transparent to me that we are being told that nigerians are very smart. look at the three poorest, most numerous, and most rapidly reproducing populations. they are india, china, and nigeria. when those guys get here and get paid what to an american born and raised in this country is just a paycheck, they legitimately believe it's a princely sum and immediately send some of it back home. all of this is pernicious.

Anonymous AT July 15, 2017 2:19 PM  

[It appears that the most destructive aspect of the Great Society, in this particular regard, is that it permitted African-Americans to return to the dyscivilizational social arrangements historically preferred in African culture.]

Someone asked me recently if I thought black dysfunction is primarily biologically or culturally driven. I simply said primarily biological and the conversation moved on to other topics; I didn't get into the connection between culture and biology that has been discussed here.

Yes, conservatives blame black dysfunction on liberal policies, but liberals blame black dysfunction on slavery. These two claims largely cancel each other out in debate. In another personal conversation someone blamed slavery for black dysfunction (i.e. they claimed that historical destruction of family bonds during slavery is the cause of poor family cohesion today). In response, I pointed out that Jewish families during WW2 were not just separated, but in many cases the entire extended family was killed except for one or two members, and the survivors emigrated to America where they also faced some discrimination and yet were very successful within a generation, while blacks have maintained dysfunction for 150 years since slavery ended and 50 years since the last significant civil rights laws were passed.

But I think there's an even more effective answer to the claim that black dysfunction today was caused by slavery: As terrible as American black culture is, it is actually FAR better than black culture in Africa and most people have no idea how terrible African "culture" is. So when this topic comes up I mention that 5000 toddlers (under the age of 2 or 3) are raped in South Africa every year. The only reason we know this about South Africa is because it's the only African country with even somewhat reliable crime statistics. Why do people in Africa rape toddlers? Because they believe sex with infants will make them immune to AIDs.



Anonymous Tipsy July 15, 2017 2:20 PM  

Some of you will remember the Allan Bakke, the student who lost his slot at UC Davis medical school to the Patrick Davis, an AA student, by judicial fiat. Davis was hailed by the left as a hero, destined to be a great boon to society, but he later went on to work the seedier side of medicine, running a body sculpting clinic. He was so incompetent that several black women died or were disfigured. He was found guilty of gross negligence and incompetence by an administrative law judge.

Allan Bakke went on to be a respected and competent anesthesiologist.

Anonymous Tipsy July 15, 2017 2:23 PM  

Correction: Patrick Chavis.

Blogger valiance. July 15, 2017 2:33 PM  

Two possible scenarios:

1. The shitty kids are low outliers wrt an accomplished family as a whole.
2. The exceptional doctor parents are high outliers wrt their shitty families. How good are they at their jobs? How prestigious is their hospital?

Check the grandparents and other family members for a better idea.

Kids don't regress to a racial mean, they regress to their *familial* mean. And regression doesn't keep going generation after generation. Commenter @ 5 is wrong.

See:
https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/the-breeders-equation/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/12/a-mediocre-mans-great-son-a-great-mans-mediocre-son/#.WWpezYjyuM8
https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/regression-to-the-mean/

Blogger ((( bob kek mando ))) - ( Communists murdered +100 Million trying to genocide the Bourgeois. suffering a Marxist to live is a Crime Against Humanity ) July 15, 2017 2:45 PM  

speaking of regression to the mean ... does everybody remember when Vox wasted time debating Louise Mensch?

http://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/07/15/louise-mensch-report-on-reince45-forcibly-returned-to-the-usa-by-air-marshals-spawns-other-louisemenschscoops/

she's just making crap up out of whole cloth now.

Blogger Ezekiel July 15, 2017 2:48 PM  

"It appears that the most destructive aspect of the Great Society, in this particular regard, is that it permitted African-Americans to return to the dyscivilizational social arrangments historically preferred in African culture."

Black Americans today are arguably more barbaric than most of those still living in Africa. Every African I've ever met or heard from on the issue seems to think so.

Regression to the mean seems to be a problem in religion too. We've seen quite a few cases of Jihadis coming from liberal or even secular homes where the parents actively tried to stop them from committing acts of terrorism (Orlando gay shooting comes immediately to mind). Tom Kratman has touched on this before. Even disregarding taqiyya, a good point to make for "good" Muslims who want to live in the West is that we're not necessarily scared of them. We are scared of their kids.

Anonymous Johnny Mayonnaise July 15, 2017 2:50 PM  

Allan Bakke went on to be a respected and competent anesthesiologist.

Yes. Converged Wikipedia notes this, in part, but predictably omits what Chavis went on to become.

"body sculpting" = liposuction

Bonus! Chavis was murdered by three unknown assailants in 2002.

Blogger Ezekiel July 15, 2017 2:52 PM  

valiance. wrote:
Kids don't regress to a racial mean, they regress to their *familial* mean.

The difference, as far as I can tell, is primarily one of scale.

Blogger Chris Lutz July 15, 2017 2:52 PM  

@8 Have you seen the real life pictures of the one lady who is lauded for her role? She could almost pass as white. Look, from all accounts, the ladies did a good job that was an important job along with a bunch of white people. But they weren't some vanguard of brilliant engineers and mathematicians. Overpraising a group is just as bad as disparaging a group unjustly.

Anonymous ALT! or I'll shoot July 15, 2017 2:53 PM  

Chavis was murdered by three unknown assailants in 2002.

He dindu nuffin.

Anonymous Looking Glass July 15, 2017 2:54 PM  

The Great Society's absolute hatred of civilized Black fathers should be noted because it basically allowed the Thug faction of the sub-culture to win the culture war. The war on fathers spans all parts of American society given the way aspects of Cultural Marxism have taken root, but the particular amounts of damage landed on married Black Men first.

When we start talking about Culture & Genetics, we run into an interesting issue with Blacks in America. While mostly West African descended, they are actually a massive hodge-podge of nations from an expanse of the continent. Nations, in fact, that a number don't exist anymore, being slaughtered in warfare at some point in the last 400 years. This points to the reason for the constant talk about Identity among Black Academics: they actually don't have any African identity upon which to base anything, as there is no such thing as "African" culture. Useful or otherwise. They're the current embodiment of the Kalergi Plan and completely adrift for it.

THAT'S IT. The Kalergi Plan is why Leftists hate American Blacks with such a massive passion. Leftists are almost wholly bound to their instincts (functionally useful abstraction is a Christian concept), so the "eugenics" aspects always targetted at American Blacks has always gone beyond what would be needed to suppress the population. There's always a sense of spite in the direction of it. They're projecting their hatred of what is being forced on them by Progressivism on their policy positions with regards to Blacks. (Progressives loathe American Blacks more than White, Christian Men, and it's something I've been trying to unwrap for a while. There's a reason that's deeply instinctual, and I think I finally found it.)

Blogger Mom July 15, 2017 3:01 PM  

Interesting. "BOTH are doctors."
How many hours do doctors work per week? It's a very high-stress job as well. Doesn't sound surprising to me for any kids of both parents working such jobs (of any color) to be messed up.
Who raises those children? Daycare?
A huge part of children being intellegent (moral, responsible, etc.) is interacting with them, and the value of a stay-at-home mom singing, talking, playing,reading,teaching, and working with her children is tremendous.

Blogger Ezekiel July 15, 2017 3:01 PM  

Al From Bay Shore wrote:Oh snap! I'm dense. This post reminds me of something I read. I went back through my browsing history and accessed the article. When I first read it, I never bothered to read the author's name, Walter S. Lind.

https://www.traditionalright.com/the-civil-rights-movement/

"Jahiliyyah" is the word he's looking for, I think. The time before the [s]Islam[/s] Social Justice should never be seen as anything but horrid and barbaric and a time of no good things whatsoever, and to portray it as anything therebut is, well, sinful.

Anonymous Jeff July 15, 2017 3:07 PM  

I'm surprised that these high IQ parents couldn't even produce one smart kid.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT July 15, 2017 3:12 PM  

@20 - Kids don't regress to a racial mean, they regress to their *familial* mean. And regression doesn't keep going generation after generation. Commenter @ 5 is wrong.

I'll grant that my post implies they will regress to an IQ of 82 and that this is not accurate. I did not intend to make that specific claim, but rather to show the racial context to emphasize that they will regress. I should have been more clear.

But my overall conclusion is not wrong.

As a group they will regress to some average IQ higher than India but lower than the U.S. average. We don't actually need or benefit as a nation from India's 'best and brightest.' What are we going to do with their slightly above Indian/slightly below US average kids?

We're not even touching on cultural and political issues. Just IQ. Just jobs in a country with a millennial generation that lives with their parents for lack of jobs. The immigrant parents are competing for white collar jobs, and many of their children will compete for blue collar jobs. And we don't have enough jobs period.

They have to go back. Along with the central and south American immigrants, the Muslim refugees, etc. It's not working. And we were fools to believe that it could ever work.

Anonymous Basket of Deplorables July 15, 2017 3:13 PM  

I wish diversity was our strength. Could you imagine the power of an America where instead of a relatively uniform muddy brown of 'diversity' we had an America where we had a Virginia full of Virginians, a Minnesota full of Minesotans, a New York full of New Yorkers, a Nebraska full of Nebraskans, a Texas full of Texans, and even a California full of Californians? Why a country like that could simultaneously defeat the major powers of Europe and Asia, while generously providing massive amounts of materiel to our allies and do it with cultural confidence. I am pretty sure that an America that could simultaneously defeat the Nazis and Imperial Japan would not struggle against ISIS, or so thoroughly screw up Libya or Afghanistan with half measures. Instead we have the shitty third rate 'diversity' of the University Admissions quotas.

Anonymous BBGKB July 15, 2017 3:19 PM  

'best and brightest.' Perhaps. But their children will regress to the mean just the same.And India's average IQ is 82

India has 5 casts that might as well be separate races.

the examples of the highly intelligent, educated, competent Negro women who were the subjects of the recent book and movie Hidden Figures

Total fiction, if you saw a picture of the singular woman the book was based on you wouldn't know she was black.
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com.br/2017/01/hidden-figures-is-almost-entirely-lie.html
https://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com.br/2017/02/the-washington-post-inadvertently.html

I had seen the Fairy Tale of Allen Turing's oppression turn into him setting up his ex boyfriend for a crime.

So when this topic comes up I mention that 5000 toddlers (under the age of 2 or 3) are raped in South Africa every year.

Don't tell Anderson Cooper or he will stop going to middle east moslem nations.

OT:Pox upon civilization Doctors Without Borders fled the borders another moslem controlled area in Africa, they should call themselves pussies running away from reality!!

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/central-african-republic-baby-shot-and-killed-inside-hospital

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta July 15, 2017 3:20 PM  

"continuous repression of the black minority may have been the primary contributor to keeping the black family together in the USA."
I'd be happy to use that argument, but as I look around, I see a whole lot of dysfunctional obese whites that bear no resemblance to the trim and proper whites of my grandparent's era. As a white, I'm ashamed of my generation. I can just hear SJWs throwing that back in my face if I were to use that argument. It seems to come down to a matter of degrees which will be entirely lost in translation.

Blogger Ezekiel July 15, 2017 3:23 PM  

Mom wrote:
How many hours do doctors work per week? It's a very high-stress job as well. Doesn't sound surprising to me for any kids of both parents working such jobs (of any color) to be messed up.


Depends on the type of doctor. I agree with #3; the God Complex probably does more to explain why doctor's kids are messed up.

Ok then... maybe we need a new case study. Are there any jobs out there with fairly low stress tolerances/pressures on the home life which don't correlate strongly to arrogance and which you have to be objectively smart to accomplish? Do black architects have observably more civilized kids than average?

Blogger Ezekiel July 15, 2017 3:24 PM  

I wrote the Magna Carta wrote:"continuous repression of the black minority may have been the primary contributor to keeping the black family together in the USA."

I'd be happy to use that argument, but as I look around, I see a whole lot of dysfunctional obese whites that bear no resemblance to the trim and proper whites of my grandparent's era. As a white, I'm ashamed of my generation. I can just hear SJWs throwing that back in my face if I were to use that argument. It seems to come down to a matter of degrees which will be entirely lost in translation.

We allowed blacks to act like niggers. Can't be too surprised if others decide to follow them.

Anonymous Cyclone Bob July 15, 2017 3:35 PM  

Mom: Who raises those children? Daycare?
A huge part of children being intellegent (moral, responsible, etc.) is interacting with them, and the value of a stay-at-home mom singing, talking, playing,reading,teaching, and working with her children is tremendous.



Lol. 75% of blacks are raised by stay-at-home mothers or grandmothers. They should all be better rocket scientists than the Hidden Nigures, by your logic.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 3:43 PM  

valiance. wrote:Kids don't regress to a racial mean, they regress to their *familial* mean.
When they immediately turn around and bring in their parents, aunts, uncles cousins, friends and relations, the chain immigration results in there being no difference. Unless you want to argue for that being cancelled out by inbreeding, which is certainly a part of the voodoo that Hindus do, but it's not going to boost your argument.

Blogger Ezekiel July 15, 2017 3:47 PM  

snod snodwon wrote:we cherry picked the best and brightest from india and china when the policies were restrictive on immigration to the us. that's why there's a persistent stereotype in america that indians and chinese are very smart people. it used to be true!

Indians? Smart?

Well they ain't stupid, or the ones I've dealt with ain't. Good businessmen, largely because they're willing to game the system and cut corners wherever they can. They got trust issues up the wazoo. So I guess they are indeed smart after a fashion.

Still, none of the real intellectualism you see with other "model minorities" like Jews, East Asians, and light-mestizos/"white Hispanics". I suspect that a lot of their reputation for brilliance comes from the fact that they like to hire and cater to the stupidest whites, browns and blacks they can.

One of the more aspects of Indians and South Asians in general, even some very dark-skinned ones, is how much they hate blacks. If you ever wanted to revive the KKK, learn Hindi and Urdu.

OpenID markstoval July 15, 2017 3:49 PM  

"But societal policies that are made on the basis of exceptions and aberrations are almost guaranteed to be disastrous, whether the outliers are to the right or the left side of the Bell Curve."

I can agree with that, but I also think that any societal polices coming out of the government that is meant to make things "better" almost always does the opposite. I know that almost everything we have done in public schools to "help" the blacks (and everyone with a "learning disability") has made matters worse. We have reached a level of thuggishness that I would never have imagined over 40 years ago when I started.

I think that the left has filled all American black's heads with myths of "it is all the white man's fault" when in fact racial differences are at the root of much of the differences in outcomes we see.

The blacks hate white people, as well they should if one were to believe the outrageous myths that the hard left has been peddling for generations. Dr. Sowell has said for decades that the blacks need to ignore whites and to fix their own families and their own culture/society. I agree with him. Only they can "fix" their problems. Unfortunately, I tend to think there is no hope that they will do that short of a great religious revival in this land. (and I am not betting that will happen either)

Anonymous I wrote the Magna Carta July 15, 2017 3:56 PM  

"One of the more aspects of Indians and South Asians in general, even some very dark-skinned ones, is how much they hate blacks."

Gandhi, viewed black people as lazy savages who were barely human. Perhaps he was a race realist?

Blogger valiance. July 15, 2017 4:01 PM  

@31 fair play to you for acknowledging the initial lack of clarity in your initial comment and understanding the point. Most people who talk about regression don't.

That said, I still disagree: it is not inevitable that "As a group they will regress to some average IQ higher than India but lower than the U.S. average." The level to which the Indian immigrants regress is entirely a function of their individual and familial IQs. That level could well be >100 IQ if the immigrants are sufficiently talented.

A Canadian style points system for immigration solves all the issues of underperforming immigrants of whatever group, and allows the US to continue to poach the best talent of other nations. Are the cultural and political benefits of a racially homogenous nation-state greater than the benefits of skimming the cognitive elite the world over? Perhaps. But worth noting that we can easily get a more talented multi-racial/ethnic immigrant population than we are--with all the benefits that implies-- without racial quotas.

Anonymous Eduardo the Magnificent July 15, 2017 4:03 PM  

I hear a lot of liberals dismissing DJT's success because he was "born into wealth". But a fair number of trust fund babies fail miserably. 99% of that I would say is shitty parenting, via not ensuring their kids were taught the same lessons that brought them success. So, one of three possibilities here. One, yes, regression to the mean. Two, the parents were never around to actually parent their kids, and hilarity ensued. Third, these two were AA hires who thought they "made it out" on the backs of their own merit, and didn't tell LeShon and Tranquilla how the AA game works. Either way, not a good reflection on black decision-making ability.

Blogger Elizabeth July 15, 2017 4:08 PM  

I wrote the Magna Carta wrote:"One of the more aspects of Indians and South Asians in general, even some very dark-skinned ones, is how much they hate blacks."

Gandhi, viewed black people as lazy savages who were barely human. Perhaps he was a race realist?



It seems that non-whites, in general, hate or despise blacks. Even folks from the Dominican Republic, who seem to be part-black, regard blacks as inferior. Only evil whites respect blacks.

Anonymous map July 15, 2017 4:10 PM  

Valiance,

The answer to your question is easy: of what benefit is this "cognitive elite" is it could make no impact in India? If it could not succeed there, then why would it succeed here?

All you doing is importing a successful parasite.

Blogger Elizabeth July 15, 2017 4:11 PM  

Eduardo the Magnificent wrote:I hear a lot of liberals dismissing DJT's success because he was "born into wealth". But a fair number of trust fund babies fail miserably. 99% of that I would say is shitty parenting, via not ensuring their kids were taught the same lessons that brought them success. So, one of three possibilities here. One, yes, regression to the mean. Two, the parents were never around to actually parent their kids, and hilarity ensued. Third, these two were AA hires who thought they "made it out" on the backs of their own merit, and didn't tell LeShon and Tranquilla how the AA game works. Either way, not a good reflection on black decision-making ability.

From shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 4:11 PM  

Ghandi lived in South Africa for decades. Whatever his opinion, it was based on experience.

The idea that we are bringing over the best and brightest, from India at least, is ludicrous. Anybody who has worked in IT for a large enterprise can tell you horror story after horror story of Paki or Hindu stupidity, irresponsibility, tribal ass-covering and complete incompetence. MAYBE 10% of the ones that make it to this country are even competent. The ones that can't manage to get here are even worse. Add to this the fact that cheating and bureaucratic manipulation are endemic to the point of being a tribal genetic trait, and it's a nightmare for any company that goes that route. A nightmare that's exceptionally hard to wake from.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 4:16 PM  

valiance. wrote:The level to which the Indian immigrants regress is entirely a function of their individual and familial IQs. That level could well be >100 IQ if the immigrants are sufficiently talented.
That might be true if IQ were based on only a few genes. It's not, so random mixing of those dozens or hundreds of genes doesn't result in the outcome you describe over more than one or at most two generations.

A Canadian style points system for immigration solves all the issues of underperforming immigrants of whatever group, and allows the US to continue to poach the best talent of other nations. Are the cultural and political benefits of a racially homogenous nation-state greater than the benefits of skimming the cognitive elite the world over? Perhaps. But worth noting that we can easily get a more talented multi-racial/ethnic immigrant population than we are--with all the benefits that implies-- without racial quotas.
Fark them and fark you. They can stay home and we'll pick our own damn cotton this time.

Blogger tz July 15, 2017 4:19 PM  

@8 - and if you go back to the Brown from Brown v. Board of Education
This is not Richard Spencer (also check out the next podcast about the bad cop with dog attacking the boy in Birmingham). Malcolm Gladwell isn't exactly featured on the daily stormer, but I expect the SPLC to tag him any day now.

As to revision to the mean and welfare, etc. I think environmental pressure - memes can have a large effect on behavior. I don't know what the structure and pressures were back in Africa, maybe R selected common tribe raising of children. But maybe the K switch worked here for a while.

And say all you want about blacks regressing, isn't Triggly Puff, and the others who do campus slut walks white? As well as a lot of gammas?

Civilization, civilizing seems mainly about creating the proper selection pressures and stresses nature provide before she was overcome. Men becoming men without rival tribes or lions to hunt. Women falling into their motherly role.

Blacks may have regressed absent the heavy pressure, but not the pressure is in the opposite direction - to destabilize - and applied to whites. And we see the result.

Blogger tz July 15, 2017 4:22 PM  

@48, et al, India has a caste system overlaying race, and I suspect they are genetically distinct.

Blogger tz July 15, 2017 4:24 PM  

They regress and get mean.

Blogger Orville July 15, 2017 4:27 PM  

@41 Gandhi, viewed black people as lazy savages who were barely human. Perhaps he was a race realist?

He saw it up close and personal while working as a lawyer in S. Africa.

Blogger Austin Ballast July 15, 2017 4:27 PM  

Far too little data here. What about the influences of being told by many sources (TV, movies, etc.) that you are not responsible because of your skin color? Add to that the almost certainty of absentee parents, due to both being doctors, and you get a mess whatever the skin color of the child.

The Cosby show may have had humor, but a lawyer and doctor would not be as involved in their children's lives as was presented, for example.

I see no evidence that one skin color inherently more animalistic. Raise white children in idiocy and you will get more idiocy.

What in the DNA makes westerners inherently more civilized?

This may sound good as rhetoric, but it is not good logic. (The idea that genes make one worse all by themselves.)

I would agree that just sticking the couple in as doctors will not help any children they have, with so many voices reinforcing barbarism in those children, but that is a much different case.

Blogger Austin Ballast July 15, 2017 4:29 PM  

Why does 10% black make someone black, but 10% white doesn't make them white?

Blogger Cail Corishev July 15, 2017 4:29 PM  

Doesn't sound surprising to me for any kids of both parents working such jobs (of any color) to be messed up.

I'm no fan of two-income families and day-care, but you won't find many children of two-doctor white families in prison, no matter how much they were neglected.

Amazing the lengths people will go to to refuse to see what's right in front of them. Blood tells, as everyone in the world used to know.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 4:33 PM  

tz wrote:India has a caste system overlaying race, and I suspect they are genetically distinct.
The caste system is effectively a local racial system, sometimes explicitly. The Brahmins are the descendants of the priestly class of the Indus Valley civilization that spread to occupy northern India, and the Aryan warriors that conquered them. Brahmin descent is tracked very assiduously, as only Brahmins are allowed certain roles in both religion and society. Claiming Brahmin descent and not actually being able to prove it can easily get you killed in India.
Women being what they are, there's always some caste mixing going on, and over the millenia it has resulted in the southern members of the upper caste having pretty dark skin, but the difference from the lower castes in the same area is obvious.

Anonymous Sharrukin July 15, 2017 4:36 PM  

53. Austin Ballast

What in the DNA makes westerners inherently more civilized?

This may sound good as rhetoric, but it is not good logic. (The idea that genes make one worse all by themselves.)


http://takimag.com/article/the_thug_gene/print#axzz4mwFzOAGr

Three studies over the past five years hint that the especially dangerous 2-repeat allele might be more common among African Americans. In one study, 6% of nonwhite subjects had this allele.2 In another, five of 37 (14%) African-American men possessed these rare MAOA alleles.3 Those percentages are remarkable given that in both studies, fewer than one percent of white men had this gene. A third study determined that 0.5% of white MAOA genes and 4.7% of African-American MAOA genes feature this 2-repeat allele—almost a tenfold difference.

Blogger Orville July 15, 2017 4:37 PM  

My first job out of high school, and first exposure to blacks, was in a factory making big wiring harnesses for industrial testing equipment. This company had made many of the pad go/no go testing systems for the Apollo program that had just ended.

Since it was located on the edge of the inner city, the cable department was completely staffed with black women. It was just me and Charles, an old white guy who ran the tool crib.

My god, I thought I had been dropped into a pen of loud squawking animals.

I quickly got promoted up to wire-wrapping relay racks. There were no black people there.

Many years later, I worked closely with two ladies from Kenya. One was an RN and the other had a degree in Health Administration. They weren't American black, but they were slothful and deficient, and somewhat deceptive in their work ethic

Blogger valiance. July 15, 2017 4:39 PM  

@45 maybe they could be successes in India but could be greater successes in the US? India's loss, in that case, is the US's gain. I'm not attempting to suggest that all Indian immigrants are cognitive elite. However, there is evidence to suggest many are above the US average in IQ.

https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/articles/chazen-global-insights/singular-population-indian-immigrants-america

"Demographically, Indians represent the current largest source of new immigrants to America, surpassing even Mexicans or Chinese. Sociologically, they are by far the best educated group in the country — roughly three times more India-born residents have college degrees than the general population.

But the most striking distinction may be their economic status: Indian-American households have the single highest income level of any group in the country — more than twice as high as the general US population."

Indian immigrants to the US are highly selected.

@48 Regression to the mean simply doesn't work the way you seem to think it does. See @20

Anonymous RA July 15, 2017 4:43 PM  

Indians and Pakis represent yet another good example of culture being mostly genetic. They are usually poor workers if not outright disasters in our domestic IT organizations. What makes it worse is the consistent pattern of entryism and eventual takeover of most IT departments in large companies. When one or two get in, they bring more of their own in. Every. Time. Plus they now control much of the IT recruiting sector as well.

But muh H1-B visas preez! If Zuckerberg runs for POTUS in '20 or '24, he has already given out the rope he'll be hung with as the anger against the immigrants will be far greater then than it is today.

Blogger Gospace July 15, 2017 4:48 PM  

Ezekiel July 15, 2017 3:23 PM

Depends on the type of doctor. I agree with #3; the God Complex probably does more to explain why doctor's kids are messed up.

Ok then... maybe we need a new case study. Are there any jobs out there with fairly low stress tolerances/pressures on the home life which don't correlate strongly to arrogance and which you have to be objectively smart to accomplish? Do black architects have observably more civilized kids than average?


When 2 engineers marry,their kids usually on the right side of the bell curve. In the two actual examples I know of two engineers marrying, the wife became a stay at home mom at child #1. Because they were engineers- they know how things work, and stay at home moms are better for the kids. And two engineers reproducing have a greater then average chance of having an autistic child. Assortive mating of higher IQ people has that one drawback. No others I know of. Assortive mating of low IQ, well, we can see the results around us. Assortive mating is on the upswing. Managers marrying the receptionist is getting rarer and rarer. Thanks to two things- transportation improvement and dating websites.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 4:51 PM  

valiance. wrote:Sociologically, they are by far the best educated group in the country — roughly three times more India-born residents have college degrees than the general population.
As if Indian College degrees have any more than a de minimis relationship to IQ.
College degrees for the upper caste are arranged through family connections, and if necessary, bribery. For the lower castes, it's attained through blatant cheating.

But the most striking distinction may be their economic status: Indian-American households have the single highest income level of any group in the country — more than twice as high as the general US population."
Yes, Hindus are like low-IQ, more violent Jews. They have learned to use the Jewish system to extract money from Whites.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 15, 2017 4:51 PM  

India's loss, in that case, is the US's gain.

No. You have to go back. Don't feed us this "highly selected" garbage. We know better. Too many of us work in the fields that have been invaded and dragged down to pitiful performance levels almost as bad as the stagnating wages.

Blogger Gospace July 15, 2017 4:52 PM  

valiance. July 15, 2017 4:39 PM
Sociologically, they are by far the best educated group in the country — roughly three times more India-born residents have college degrees than the general population


And the vast majority of those degrees are from Indian institutions, which teach rote memorization of the book. Period. I've had to deal with more then one highly trained and educated Indian. Their ability to think outside the box or apply anything other then a canned solution is non-existent. I left one medical practice (as a patient) because if I stayed my primary would be an Indian doctor.

Blogger RobertT July 15, 2017 4:55 PM  

The Rockies first baseman who had a spectacular, out-of-his-head first half, is expected to do just that - regress to the mean.

Blogger Matthew Funk July 15, 2017 4:57 PM  

Every time all members of a low functioning group are excluded, the high functioning exceptions are cited to argue against said exclusion. When meritocratic principles lead to disproportionate lack of representation for the low functioning group, despite the fact that the high functioning exceptions can flourish under meritocracy, the disparity of representation is cited to argue against said meritocracy.

I prefer systems that don't impede high functioning exceptions, but it seems that meritocratic based organizations and systems always converge towards the equality narrative. On a personal level, it sincerely does trouble my conscience when high functioning exceptions are excluded, but on the other hand making exceptions for high functioning members of the group invariably leads to the latter criticism and overwhelmingly social justice convergence. I don't have the answer as to how to hold the line at meritocracy and I sure wouldn't mind any white pill examples of meritocracy advocates successfully holding the line against the social justice nits.

Is the answer to disregard the high functioning exceptions, as it will invariably be outweighed by the dysfunctional idiots that will flood the system when exceptions are made for the high functioners or is the answer to hold the line at meritocracy and never give another inch?

Anonymous andon July 15, 2017 5:01 PM  

54. Blogger Austin Ballast July 15, 2017 4:29 PM
Why does 10% black make someone black, but 10% white doesn't make them white?


i used to wonder about this too. maybe mulatto behaviour tends more towards the black side? or maybe expectations are lowered for them and they get away with stuff

Anonymous Looking Glass July 15, 2017 5:03 PM  

Since we're getting deep into the Gene topic, a question if anyone has come across some information I'd like to see. (Given the nature of this stuff, you have to dig through euphemisms to find anything valuable.)

From some other work, it's fairly clear that Consciousness is very much a Chemical to Electro-Chemical energy process. (Glucose into Excitatory Neurotransmitters, mostly.) Has anyone come across any IQ or g vs GLUT1 studies? Or any neurological energy production?

It's something I came across in some Suicide study, where the introduction of high-calorie grains to societies that can't produce them see suicide spikes that are massive. The cortisol axis is the key, specifically, there, but it brings up some other topics. Non-tropical climates require the growing & storing of food, which highly selects for those with strong metabolisms for field work, along with a need to stay warm. More calories = more body heat. Over time, this allows for more mental energy because the brain actually uses an immense amount of your body's total energy.

There's still issues of larger Racial groups to this, but the IQ levels by country have a pretty specific set of levels by climate. To the point that Northern Whites view Southern Whites as less intelligent. (I believe the Chinese also have this same North-South view, but I can't confirm that one.) Geography matters because it dictates how you'll adapt. Centuries in an environment that's "easy" produces a fairly specific type of person. Comfortable living, but you're not building any computers.

Blogger Brian H July 15, 2017 5:04 PM  

Funny this topic comes up.

Was looking up my old favorite pain doc yesterday to find not only has he left the practice, but his group has been replaced completely by all bonified chumbewumbe African doctors.

They aren't getting anywhere near my spine with a cortisone needle.

I'll even drive the extra hour to where he now works.

Anonymous Random #57 July 15, 2017 5:11 PM  

"Why does 10% black make someone black, but 10% white doesn't make them white?"

One theory mentioned by Kevin McDonald is that northern Europeans have a lot of recessive genes coding for appearance as a cuckolding defense.

Blogger Brian H July 15, 2017 5:13 PM  

Amen.

Blogger Frueds Cigar July 15, 2017 5:16 PM  

@28 I had three kids go thru day care and not one of them went to the joint.

Blogger Brian H July 15, 2017 5:23 PM  

When I ask my boomer parents they'd just say "well this black was just not raised right"

Then I'd ask, well what about his parents?

"well, they weren't raised right either..."

What about THEIR parents?...

Etc, ad infinitum.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 5:28 PM  

Is the answer to disregard the high functioning exceptions, as it will invariably be outweighed by the dysfunctional idiots that will flood the system when exceptions are made for the high functioners or is the answer to hold the line at meritocracy and never give another inch?
The answer is to pick our own damn cotton this time.

Blogger Brian H July 15, 2017 5:29 PM  

Difference being, whites can be manageably reverted back, relatively quickly, to their 1000-year civil development with a few nice or nasty nudges.

Blacks have yet to have ever BEEN fixed, and no one knows how long that'll take, nor what it will finally cost (i.e. our entire civilization).

Anonymous BBGKB July 15, 2017 5:31 PM  

OT: The pizza is getting hot
http://roguemoney.net/2017/07/14/trumps-war-on-pedophiles-just-went-hot/

Blogger dc.sunsets July 15, 2017 5:35 PM  

@ BBGKB, re: India's castes, my son manages a team of Indian contractors, one of whom is reportedly being kicked out of the country.

Said contractor claimed that she understood why; her family owns (her claim) several houses in India, one worth at least $800k, and the family had the full complement of servants, paid like $11/month. Working in the USA just meant making 4x more money (and her parents basically lived in the USA as "tourists" the whole time.)

They apparently get Trump. If anything, it seems they couldn't believe Americans put up with any of this in the first place.

The Brahmans are hip to milking any cows left loose, including cows owned by others.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 15, 2017 5:36 PM  

valiance. wrote:Two possible scenarios:

1. The shitty kids are low outliers wrt an accomplished family as a whole.

2. The exceptional doctor parents are high outliers wrt their shitty families. How good are they at their jobs? How prestigious is their hospital?

3.  The parents were Affirmative-Actioned into their MDs when anyone else would have washed out.

Repeating myself from the orc thread, they regressed back to the Black mean (that the parents may not actually have been too far above).  All the parents' money can't buy one IQ point.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that even IKAGO Blacks should not be allowed to have children in the USA, at least not until we can use PIGD to guarantee adequate IQ and self-control.  But what's the point, if you get acceptable odds for free with White parents?

Blogger dc.sunsets July 15, 2017 5:39 PM  

@ markstoval blacks can't fix their problems if those problems are defined as lagging whites by any measure of prosperity.

There are no negotiated solutions to the biologically driven differences in group outcomes.

The differences will remain until one comparator is extinct.

Blogger dc.sunsets July 15, 2017 5:42 PM  

+infinity, Snidely.

The USA needs immigration like an airplane needs bags of Sakrete.

Anonymous I wrote the magna Carta July 15, 2017 5:49 PM  

"The USA needs immigration like an airplane needs bags of Sakrete."
or
"like a fish needs a bicycle."

Blogger dc.sunsets July 15, 2017 5:50 PM  

Valiance, perhaps you wish to have people from India achieve the population density to begin changing US law to mirror their preferences.

If so will you Get The F--K out of here and go There.

I liked the system from my youth. It already enrages me that my grandchildren will never see all of what was lost.

You appear to propose they say the same thing about their grandkids.

I'd like to see someone who isn't me slit the throats of those who harbor that view.

I sincerely hope to see such persons someday, "resting comfortably" atop the front sight.

Anonymous One Deplorable DT July 15, 2017 5:53 PM  

@42 - That said, I still disagree: it is not inevitable that "As a group they will regress to some average IQ higher than India but lower than the U.S. average." The level to which the Indian immigrants regress is entirely a function of their individual and familial IQs. That level could well be >100 IQ if the immigrants are sufficiently talented.

Unfortunately there's not enough information online to determine this. Some data suggests I'm right and they will regress to <100. Some data suggests they will not. (They will regress, but to a level >100). But there just isn't enough data either way. At least not that I can find in a short amount of time.

Note that I am purposely ignoring college education and income statistics. Those are not good proxies for IQ, especially when many of the degrees come from outside the U.S.

I was looking to win the immigrant Indian IQ argument, but the truth is what's available is inconclusive. So I will withdraw the IQ argument when it comes to Indian immigrants.

But there are still very large differences in other respects. And we still don't have enough jobs. And they still have to go back.

A Canadian style points system for immigration solves all the issues of underperforming immigrants of whatever group, and allows the US to continue to poach the best talent of other nations.

We have better talent at home which is being brushed side. Talent which is far more likely to adhere to American laws, culture, and customs. Talent which has a vested interest in the success of America and her citizens.

http://polymatharchives.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html

I'm tempted to go off, as a couple others have, regarding the contrast between Indian IQ claims and their terrible work in the field of IT. But that is only my personal experience. Instead I will simply point out that assuming they are and will continue to be above average IQ, they never the less impose external costs on U.S. citizens. And I'm tired of paying external costs so that someone like Zuckerberg can pocket another billion.

They have to go back. Better now when it can be peaceful than later when it will be violent and ugly.

Blogger Koanic July 15, 2017 6:02 PM  

Really, anti-racist Boomers should be exiled to South Africa, not South America.

Their virtue signaling smarmy global empire doomed those white people to be hacked to bits. Only fair they take their cut.

Blogger Austin Ballast July 15, 2017 6:04 PM  

Sharrukin,

That wouldn't explain the widespread nature of black misbehavior.

Cail,

That is not accurate. Texas has an "affluenza teen" getting a lot of attention now. How many black children of such parents go wild and how many white children do the same? We have a single example.

I do see a problem, but I see it more as the result of absent parenting and societal reinforcement of bad behavior rather some innate reversion to the norm.

andon,

i used to wonder about this too. maybe mulatto behaviour tends more towards the black side? or maybe expectations are lowered for them and they get away with stuff

That is why I would blame societal expectations over genes. We all came from a common ancestry, so arguing just a little black makes one go wild (based on genetics) is far from proven.

Random $57,

One theory mentioned by Kevin McDonald is that northern Europeans have a lot of recessive genes coding for appearance as a cuckolding defense.

Wouldn't the reverse be true of those from Africa then? Yet for them, the whiter the skin, the better, for the most part.

I would agree with dc.sunsets that this is not a negotiable issue. People have to meet the expectations of doing well and then do well. Some will still fail, as happens with whites as well. Life happens, but the saying, "The harder I work, the luckier I get" would apply to anyone trying to get ahead.

The comments about how advanced these parents really were also bears consideration. How much did extended family and friends reward success? I would bet very little, at least on the whole. That is not noted in these kinds of stories.

Blogger tz July 15, 2017 6:21 PM  

Black male. It's not just the envelope of color.

Blogger Ronin F9 July 15, 2017 6:23 PM  

Conservatives always like to blame the Great Society for the demise of the black family

This incessant canard seems to be a central pillar of modern Cuckservatism. The fact is the African-in-America "family" has been a wreck since Emancipation.

https://archive.org/stream/philadelphianegr001901mbp/philadelphianegr001901mbp_djvu.txt
http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.fr/2012/10/self-policing-and-afro-american.html
http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.com/2013/12/whence-housing-segregation.html

It has only gotten worse with the general decline through out Western Civilization.

OpenID markstoval July 15, 2017 6:26 PM  

@79 dc.sunsets

" blacks can't fix their problems if those problems are defined as lagging whites by any measure of prosperity."

That is the point so many miss. The left keeps telling the blacks that it is "white privilege" or "institutional racism" that keeps them down. It is easy to show them that, as a group, they lag the white population in prosperity. It is easy to convince them that the "white man" is screwing them over and is evil.

But, the blacks need to start working in the system and realize that some will do great as high IQ individuals but most will not. But there are many jobs that don't require high IQ. The guys who do my plumbing don't seem to be high IQ, just experienced and willing to do the job.

Dr. Sowell pointed out that during the depression the crime rate in black areas was not very high as it is today. The blacks can fit in at a different level perhaps --- but you need the god damn liberals to stop telling them it is the White Man's Fault.

I have predicted a race war is coming. I predict that because the hard left will not rest until they cause a race war. (I don't think they realize what they are doing)

Until we all realize that equal opportunity is not the same as equal outcomes --- there will be no peace.

Anonymous Sharrukin July 15, 2017 6:27 PM  

85. Austin Ballast

I do see a problem, but I see it more as the result of absent parenting and societal reinforcement of bad behavior rather some innate reversion to the norm.

So that explains Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Fergusun, Brazil, Haiti, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Somalia, Sudan, Angola, South Africa, and Kenya?

Different religions, different cultures, different histories, different parenting, different cultural norms...and this is your go-to explanation?

Mommy and daddy weren't there enough?

Your fairy tale only provides a facile explanation for the USA.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 6:36 PM  

Austin Ballast wrote:
I do see a problem, but I see it more as the result of absent parenting and societal reinforcement of bad behavior rather some innate reversion to the norm.

That's because you want to see it that way. The experience of people who have lived among Blacks, of Blacks themselves, indeed, the history of the human race tells you the opposite, but you have your theory, it makes you feel good, so you stick with it. You can always find an alternate explanation for Black failure. Problem is it's not true.
The slate is not blank.

It's about half-full, and that's not chalk, it's engraved.
That is why I would blame societal expectations over genes. We all came from a common ancestry, so arguing just a little black makes one go wild (based on genetics) is far from proven.

There is far more evidence for this hypothesis than for your "lowered expectations" rationalization.

Blogger Snidely Whiplash July 15, 2017 6:37 PM  

Ultimately, we come from the same ancestry as bonobos, if you adhere to evolution. Is it "lowered expectations" that make bonobos violent retards?

Blogger VD July 15, 2017 7:06 PM  

That is why I would blame societal expectations over genes.

It's because you're an ignorant blank slatist. You're simply too uninformed to take part in this discussion.

Blogger Sheila4g July 15, 2017 7:06 PM  

@85 Austin Ballast: "I do see a problem, but I see it more as the result of absent parenting and societal reinforcement of bad behavior rather some innate reversion to the norm."

Same old, same old. First we get studies claiming Negro children start out behind because their parents neither read nor talk to them as much as White parents. Then, after decades of touting Head Start, we learn any perceived results evaporate after a year or two. I've read repeatedly that even those Negro children who appear to keep up in the beginning all fall behind by adolescence {genetics and hormones at work]. While White children appear harmed by daycare {i.e. being home with a caring and attentive White mother provides a superior outcome}, Negroes in many ways do slightly better with daycare, since so many have an utterly unstructured and chaotic home life.

Parental influence can only go so far. I'm in no way a pure IQ or HBD determinist, but even an optimal home environment/parenting can only ensure someone performs at their optimal genetic level. A Negro child with an IQ of 85 is never going to be a successful surgeon, even if he's raised by married, employed, and loving parents.

White children from families with incomes of less than $20,000 a year do about the same on the SAT as Negro students from families earning $100,000 a year. And those aren't all athletes - those are Negro dentists and college-educated "diversity experts" and various government ciphers - part of that great Negro middle class we all hear about. Except that even with a middle class income, they exhibit Negro pathologies due to lower average IQ, higher testosterone and MAOA genes leading to impulsive and violent behavior, and on and on and on. I remember the first Negro family that moved into my childhood neighborhood, while I was away at my first year of college. Both parents were government workers in DC. Their oldest daughter came home pregnant after her first year of college. I never met the second one, but the youngest {who used to hang around at her neighbor's house which is where I encountered her} was obese and obviously dull-witted. PG county in Maryland used to be filled with working class and lower-middle class Whites. Not a swanky place but not a crime filled dump, either. Now that it's almost entirely Negro, it's a typical example of regression to the mean and standard Negro self-governance.

Adoption studies have conclusively demonstrated that Negro children raised by loving White parents in a standard middle class American environment have IQs within the normal range for Negro children raised by single Negro mothers. Environment can optimize one's potential but it cannot and does not ever, in any way or time or place, correct for low IQ and dyscivic genetic tendencies. Negroes labor under both and are, on average simply not suited to life in modern, Western nations.

tl;dr: DNA MATTERS.

Anonymous andon July 15, 2017 7:42 PM  

i had a black woman for a doctor about 15 years ago and she was nice and she seemed intelligent and competent too, fwiw

probably she actually earned her degree compared to what they're turning out today though

Anonymous Bob July 15, 2017 7:44 PM  

I have always belived that the country would be stronger if it had constitutional amendment making English the official language. Even in law, there is a solid movement for plain english as opposed to latin. With today's identity politics it offers so much more. National identity has three legs, and one is language. Start with that. Blacks wouldn't need any hand up if they were suddenly granted 'language priveledge'. The rest is up to them. And I'll bet on the dark horse (NPI) that it would escalate them far above their hispanic counterparts and bring the mean closer to the top. Christianity is already there to be revived.

Blogger Unknown July 15, 2017 7:54 PM  

It appears that the most destructive aspect of the Great Society, in this particular regard, is that it permitted African-Americans to return to the dyscivilizational social arrangments historically preferred in African culture.

This "civilization" also appears to be an idealised version of white tribalism, under the observably stupid pretense that such society (as the pretenders envisage it) is the epitome of human existence. In reality, it is just a house - whitewashed to cover its many blemishes. What the white man has wrought was never more than the best and worst of Rome - a beautifully built but sexually immoral, gynocentric, corrupt, coersive and dysfunctional social arrangement that has been stylised and manicured into the best the white man can envisage for himself. All of it is within the predictable boundaries of his superior creativity and interminably high self-regard but also his incredibly shallow mind. He has acted mostly under the authority of a Spirit he has never fully understood or been able to percieve, and never yielding to its power. Instead, his rapacious and imperious craving to control, dominate and bend others to his will, such that his own limitations appear less to himself has always domnated him. Yet he has always done this behind xenophobic ramparts and majestic exhortations that hide his festering moral abcesses and create the illusion of power and authority. Game of Thrones is uncannily prophetic in its depiction of the end result of the white man's "civilization".

In other words, the great society is also encouraging Euro-Americans to return to the dyscivilizational social arrangements historically preferred in pagan culture. Regression to the mean. It means it's time for the white tribe to go back to its tribal lands and return all that it has taken from others. No harm, no malice. Just a return home to live in peace and build the society it wants according to what its tribal gods want to give it.

Blogger DonReynolds July 15, 2017 7:59 PM  

@88 Markstoval
"But, the blacks need to start working in the system and realize that some will do great as high IQ individuals but most will not. But there are many jobs that don't require high IQ. The guys who do my plumbing don't seem to be high IQ, just experienced and willing to do the job."

People in all walks of life can be intelligent, not so intelligent, and everything in between. I have known some incredibly dull politicians in my time and some very bright ones. Army officers can be downright stupid and immature or they can also be great leaders. The same is true of carpenters, plumbers, and electricians.

Samuel Taylor Coleridge, a minor philosopher, once wrote.....If we celebrate philosophy because it is of the mind and denigrate plumbing because it is toiling with the hands, we will get neither good philosophy nor good plumbing.

It is a mistake to try to stratify occupations by intelligence. The Army tends to do this when they push the least intelligent into the infantry and the brainy bunch into artillery. WE need intelligent infantrymen. WE need good cooks. WE need clever clerks. WE need a good cross section of people at every occupation and level. When we stratify our human resources by intelligence level, we automatically create our own weakest links.

Anonymous Mr. Rational July 15, 2017 8:14 PM  

Austin Ballast wrote:Why does 10% black make someone black, but 10% white doesn't make them white?
Ask Colin Kaepernick and the previous Mr. Resident.  They've decided to identify as Black; CK could pass if he wanted to.

@59  They're given a bunch of diversity points.  This is the same thing that created the fake Black middle class.  Starting from a higher level, they get more money than the Blacks do.

Blogger Cail Corishev July 15, 2017 8:18 PM  

That is not accurate. Texas has an "affluenza teen" getting a lot of attention now. How many black children of such parents go wild and how many white children do the same? We have a single example.

No, we have many examples, from the racial breakdowns of the prisons to personal anecdotes. In my 95% white, 3% black town, where there are plenty of daycares full of white kids, every time I've been in a courtroom, 3/4 of the defendants were black.

Assertion is not argument. You assert that there's no difference between the crime rate of wealthy, neglected black kids and wealthy, neglected white kids. Fine, back up your laughable assertion with something more than wishful thinking.

Blogger Rusty Fife July 15, 2017 8:36 PM  

Unknown wrote:This "civilization" also appears to be an idealised version of white tribalism, under the observably stupid pretense that such society (as the pretenders envisage it) is the epitome of human existence. In reality, it is just a house - whitewashed to cover its many blemishes.

A house with indoor plumbing.

Anonymous Sharrukin July 15, 2017 8:42 PM  

96. Unknown

It means it's time for the white tribe to go back to its tribal lands and return all that it has taken from others.

It will be war. The parasite races won't leave willingly as they flood into any region that is ruled by the productive and creative white race.

There is no 'living in peace' and there never has been.

Blogger Rough Carrigan July 15, 2017 8:50 PM  

I work for a small civil engineering and land surveying company. A little over 20 years ago, we had our first Indian client. My boss and his wife, the company's owners, thought nothing of the background of a client. We gave very good service to that client, as we do all our clients, and soon had a half dozen different Indian born developers living over here.

Over time every single one turned out to be a liar and something of a cheat. Every. Single. One. Now, you might try to argue that this is true of all developers. It's not. We have other clients, Italian Americans and Irish Americans who have been wonderful to work for and who I couldn't imagine acting the way the Indians do. I can only think of one American client like them out of probably dozens.

I used to do biweekly inspections of one large subdivision being built for one of our better clients. The realtor in the model home told me, in extreme frustration, that she had just about had it with the Indian buyers. According to her they all thought everything was to be haggled about and that they could try to chisel down every cost even in a time that was a supreme seller's market. I cued up the Monty Python "haggle" scene from Life of Brian and she laughed till she cried. That's another problem with Indians in the U.S. They've left they're utterly corrupt homeland where everything is just a bribe away, everything can be chiseled and rather than sigh in relief that, at least in some respects, it's not like that here, they seem to try to duplicate that here.

Blogger Rusty Fife July 15, 2017 9:02 PM  

This is hysterical:

Pakis are among the first to invent water works in the Idus Valley Civilization:

https://infogalactic.com/info/History_of_water_supply_and_sanitation#Indus_Valley_Civilization

4,000years later and here are the results are "the population with access to an improved water source from 85% in 1990 to 92% in 2010, although this does not necessarily mean that the water from these sources is safe to drink. The share with access to improved sanitation increased from 27% to 48% during the same period"

https://infogalactic.com/info/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Pakistan

However, the Scotts did invent the toilet 1000years ahead of them:

https://infogalactic.com/info/History_of_water_supply_and_sanitation#Prehistory

Which is why the modern indoor flush toilet was developed by a Scotsman:

https://infogalactic.com/info/Alexander_Cumming

Blogger Rusty Fife July 15, 2017 9:15 PM  

@103

Apparently, that means the Pakis have another 1000years of pooping in the streets to look forward to.

Africa on the other hand....

Anonymous Random #57 July 15, 2017 9:21 PM  

"Apparently, that means the Pakis have another 1000years of pooping in the streets to look forward to.

Africa on the other hand...."

Doesn't have streets. Problem solved.

OpenID markstoval July 15, 2017 9:21 PM  

@97 DonReynolds

I think you misunderstood my main point. Perhaps I could have been more clear.

I don't want to force people into any line of work. I certainly don't want to force stratification. I just think that the blacks and other lower IQ groups need to see that some are born with more IQ than others and all people have different abilities. (this used to be understood by most people long ago)

The point is that we need people to see that it is their own abilities and drive that governs success and that "The White Man" is not standing in their way.

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 15, 2017 9:25 PM  

VD: Regression to the mean
This is the statistical reality that will always confound the civic nationalists and their ideals of uplift.

It's regression *toward* the mean, not *to* the mean, or selecting breeding could never work.

VD: Conservatives always like to blame the Great Society for the demise of the black family, ... but the reality is that the influence of its perverse incentives were relatively limited... it permitted African-Americans to return to the dyscivilizational social arrangments historically preferred in African culture.

Whitey is following a similar trajectory for dyscivilizational social arrangements. Incentives matter.

Anonymous andon July 15, 2017 9:33 PM  

It means it's time for the white tribe to go back to its tribal lands and return all that it has taken from others.

whites need to take everything they built too, and return America to the way it was before they got here.

if you said this ^^^ then i would think you actually had some honesty, integrity. instead you're just another black/brown liar

Blogger Tom K. July 15, 2017 9:49 PM  

I have lived in India, New Delhi and its environs to be precise, and I have nothing but respect for the rickshaw drivers, vegetable stall owner, shoe repair vendors, and housemaids who clean others' houses while eking out a living in the ditches in front of those houses.

But while sleeping on the roof of a min-bus during hot summer nights, looking around at the hundreds of people living on the streets around me, extrapolating to the hundreds of thousands on nearby streets, I was struck with the realization that none of this was a temporary condition for any of them! They had not unexpectedly lost a job and couldn't find work in a poor economy. They were not homeless because of misguided government policies. They were homeless because this was all they'd ever known, all their parents had ever known. And, most likely, all they ever WOULD know.

They live on the streets because they, and Indian society as a whole, are not capable of doing more. Oh, sure, if they came to America they'd likely, and quickly, be living in an apartment, buying a car, maybe even sending their children to college. But that would only be because smarter people had already put in place all the infrastructure necessary to multiply the impact of the little benefit they contributed to society.

After five, ten years, you are where you are because of your own intelligence, discipline, choices... and and the cultural mores that shaped you for years.

Blogger Vikki Wilson July 15, 2017 10:00 PM  

This comment has been removed by the author.

Blogger Vikki Wilson July 15, 2017 10:03 PM  

My husband collects images of amusing signs and I sometimes act as his spotter (SJ "Churches" are a goldmine)

My latest is the "Pariah Beauty Salon".

Blogger Buybuydandavis July 15, 2017 10:06 PM  

One Deplorable DT wrote:


But my overall conclusion is not wrong.

As a group they will regress to some average IQ higher than India but lower than the U.S. average.



You may or may not be wrong. This is an empirical issue dependent on the specifics.

If a random sample of IQ=120 from Country=India were forced bred, what would the long run average IQ be?

I don't know. Neither do you.

Vary Country, and the answer probably varies, because IQ by country varies, and hence the amount of "luck" in the biased sample (biased by IQ selected) varies.

Vary by IQ, and the answer very likely varies as well, just as one would expect - start with higher IQ population, end with higher IQ population.

Regression *toward* the mean is not magic.

Will any edge Indian immigrants have in IQ be overcome by reversion toward the mean? Depends on what the IQ is, and how far that IQ population from India would revert.

We don't know that.

Anonymous Dismal Farmer July 15, 2017 10:21 PM  

Far more likely to be feminism than skin color. The problems that family has may be superficially related to black American culture, whose problem has little to do with being dark skinned as anyone who has met successful Africans from large, paternalistic families knows. The problem is in the "2 doctors" phenomenon. This means the children had an absentee mother and a father who was obviously okay with that - or more likely was emotionally castrated by his battle axe doctor wife. In the white community there might be grandparents or others to give the kids some basic level of parenting, but it's likely that these two black doctors had fewer social resources.

The degeneracy of blacks is, as a study of history shows very clearly, the result of the lack of a strong nuclear family. An absentee "doctor" mother or a dad in prison - it's all the same. The issue is not skin color, it is basic Christian family values. It is the moral duty of Christians to support and promote Christian values among such people - but for the past century or more nominal "Christians" have mostly promoted adultery, fornication, and consumerist individualism.

The foundation of much modern degeneracy is simply women working outside the home. This is not to say women are incapable of being good doctors - they are. They are simply incapable of being good doctors and good mothers at the same time. This is true regardless of race.

Anonymous Sharrukin July 15, 2017 10:45 PM  

113. Dismal Farmer

the result of the lack of a strong nuclear family.

Detroit, Trenton, Baltimore, Cleveland, Fergusun, Brazil, Haiti, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Chad, Somalia, Sudan, Liberia, Tanzania, Mozambique, Angola, Ghana, South Africa, and Kenya.

If blacks are as capable as whites as you claim how do you explain Africa?

Is it racism? Colonialism? The Tsetse fly? The climate? Did they run out of gas? A flat tire? Didn’t have change for a cab? Lost their tux at the cleaners? Locked their keys in their car? An old friend came in from out of town? Someone stole their car? Was there an earthquake? A terrible flood? Locusts? IT WASN’T THEIR FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!

Blogger Rosabie July 15, 2017 11:15 PM  

Unknown wrote:It means it's time for the white tribe to go back to its tribal lands and return all that it has taken from others. No harm, no malice. Just a return home to live in peace and build the society it wants according to what its tribal gods want to give it.
We took them by main force. If you think you can take them away, go ahead and try.

Tom K. wrote:But that would only be because smarter people had already put in place all the infrastructure necessary to multiply the impact of the little benefit they contributed to society.
There's more to it than that. Hinduism teaches, at the very core of its dogma, that if your life is shit, it's because you, personally, deserve it. If you're begging on a street corner, disfigured by leprous sores in a pool of diarrhea, it's because of your sins in a past life. Not only that, but if you don't suffer those repercussions, you will be deprived of the chance to work out that bad dharma.

A devout Hindu knows that it's ultimately bad for the recipient to lift him out of his misery. But, since it's good for his own dharma, many will do it anyway.

A devout Hindu does not, cannot, feel charity. It's more foreign to him than worshipping demons would be to a Christian. The best he can manage is sentimental compassion, which is really just a free ride of on he suffering of others, as explained by the Buddha.

Anonymous SciVo de Plorable July 15, 2017 11:16 PM  

Tar Heel wrote:Understood, Dark Lord. I always respond to the knee-jerk "Not all [...] are like that!" with "But too many are!" Perhaps there is better rhetoric to be applied, and which can be tailored according to the particular group referenced.

"Right, and not all child rapists are repeat offenders, so if you turn down a pedophile for your babysitting, then you're a racist."

The illogic of the 'racist' slur is crucial. It will tempt them into a trap of arguing an irrelevant point while implicitly conceding the main one. Kind of like the concept in mechanical engineering of designing in a preferred point of failure.

Blogger Rosabie July 15, 2017 11:21 PM  

Dismal Farmer wrote:The degeneracy of blacks is, as a study of history shows very clearly, the result of the lack of a strong nuclear family. An absentee "doctor" mother or a dad in prison - it's all the same.
No, the study of history with a mind to excuse dysfunction and find a way to blame it on other factors may appear to support it.
You see what you want to see.
The actual studies have already been done. For instance, Black children adopted and raised by White, two parent, middle-class, stay-at-home-mom families have the same incidence of criminal behavior, drug use and low IQ as their parents.

Anonymous Mike Rock July 15, 2017 11:25 PM  

@111, Vicki,
Saw this one years ago....

Where will you spend Eternity?
Smoking........or Non Smoking?

God bless.
Mike

Blogger Dire Badger July 15, 2017 11:54 PM  

It's like our entire social system has been rewritten by David-goddamnhimtohell-Brin.

Anonymous Luke July 16, 2017 12:21 AM  

Re Indians (call center, not casino):

I have closely for months dealt with multiple such Indians in the U.S. in scientific positions. Every single one was an excellent speaker of English and utterly devoid of internal moral compass. Self-interest and fear of consequences were their guides.

Oh, and 2 of the 3 were incompetent, and the 3rd one was unremarkable.

Photo of Indians assisting family members with information during closed-book standardized testing: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12832/production/_89862857_gettyimages-467607846.jpg

Anonymous Good news from Germany July 16, 2017 12:48 AM  

f both parents have an IQ above 124, then the children will have an IQ above 124 in 98% of cases. The 2% that aren't are due to complications during birth (lack of oxygen etc.).

Parents who have IQs below 94 will have children who have IQs below 94 in 96% of cases. While half of the chldren of parents who have IQs between 105 and 124 will be between this IQ range (105-124); the other half is divided: one quarter will be above, one quarter below this range.

From German geneticist Volkmar Weiss. As he writes in his latest work, regression toward the mean is a statistical, not a biological phenomenon.

This shows how dysgenic it is that 1/3 of German female professors don't have children.

Anonymous AB.Prosper July 16, 2017 1:58 AM  

Dire Badger wrote:It's like our entire social system has been rewritten by David-goddamnhimtohell-Brin.

It basically was. The same crap they taught him in school pervades the entire education system of the elite

Anonymous Carlos Danger July 16, 2017 2:09 AM  

113 Dismal Farmer: when they are in Africa, they can make all the mistakes they would like and it costs us relatively little. That will now be the new normal. Excuses are now immaterial because you are going back.

Anonymous Luke July 16, 2017 4:02 AM  

54. Austin Ballast July 15, 2017 4:29 PM
"Why does 10% black make someone black, but 10% white doesn't make them white?"

That's the easiest thing in the world to answer. If you mix 10% food with 90% fresh human feces, should the resulting product be treated as food or sewage? Now make that 90% food and 10% fresh human feces. I'm still not eating it.

Same deal. There is a "rounding down" for all but the tiniest (<~6%, say) amounts of nonwhiteness. Think "desirable recessive gene" vs. "highly undesirable nonrecessive gene". Or, just remember that nonwhite + white = nonwhite.

Understand it now?

Anonymous Carlos Danger July 16, 2017 4:03 AM  

@14 DCSunsets; is your wife a Fairfax County School teacher by any chance? Even so, all of the other counties in the area are very wealthy and use it as a benchmark. How the mighty have fallen. However will they justify the house prices now? When I graduated Annandale High School back in the late 70s, we were 99% white and middle class.

Blogger VD July 16, 2017 4:04 AM  

The issue is not skin color, it is basic Christian family values.

You're both stupid and ignorant. The issue is DNA. Skin color is not causal, it merely happens to correlate with other genetic consequences.

The Japanese don't have basic Christian family values and yet they are not afflicted by low-IQ, low-self control problems.

Anonymous Looking Glass July 16, 2017 4:49 AM  

@113 Dismal Farmer

"Blank Slatism" is anti-Christian, by the by. The Lord is pretty clear that everyone is a unique individual, even genetically identical twins. You first mistake is that you don't realize you believe an Anti-Christian heresy.

As to DNA, once one can get beyond the cultural propaganda on the subject (realize they've trapped you between either "Kill all the darkies" or "everyone is the same", which are both false but only Leftists have a desire for global-scale genocide) that it isn't that hard to explain.

1) Regional Genetic Pressures are real. Who survives best in a cold climate? warm climate?
2) Culture & Religion select from the Regionally Advantaged.
3) Advanced Cultures have been executing their idiots, fools and evil Men for 1000s of years.

There's a reason the only groups that can handle Modern Civilization are Northern Europeans or Northern East Asians. The places that are exceptions to that are colonies of those peoples. But to understand that is to accept that executing the people that were not your ancestors is the only reason we're communicating right now.

Anonymous Oaty Beekeeper July 16, 2017 5:51 AM  

[Re-posting my comment from the "Educating Orcs" post as the conversation seems to have moved here - mods delete if inappropriate]

This hits home as it [IoP] is where I got my PhD. From that time, I remember maybe one black lab tech, half a dozen Indian (dot not feather) students but it was pretty much a Whitopia... Makes me wonder who's portraits they are going to replace them with. Maybe the kitchen staff? I remember they made some damn fine bacon sarnies!

Ironically, Hans Eysenck who pioneered work on the heritability of IQ was a faculty member while I was there. Even back then he had to check his car daily for bombs after death threats from liberals over his work.

I'm sure most of what I learned there is now considered hate facts.

PS. Just checked the institutions Infogalactic entry and the notable staff and students pictured there share a similar theme that I can't quite put my finger on...

Blogger dc.sunsets July 16, 2017 10:15 AM  

@ Carlos Danger, no my wife works at a Title One school (i.e., low income) in what used to be a 99% white, middle and low class area (my own kids went to the school where she works, just 20-25 years ago.)

It's now overrun by Mestizos with a few more blacks mixed in. It used to have a broad cross section of aptitudes (very bright to dull, with the retarded educated separately.) Now, she's lucky if 2 out of 27 are a bit above ave. 1/3rd will be SpEd (over half of those will be <75 IQ) and half the class will have the self discipline of two year olds.

What 20 or 30 years ago was normal and orderly is now a zoo.

There are few if any schools now that don't suffer from this. Even private schools caught the disease. I suspect the elite schools where our rulers sent their children are different, however.

Anonymous Coprophagius Maximus July 16, 2017 11:39 AM  

Coprophagic beetles occupy a higher status in the animal kingdom.

We wuz Kangz!

Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit July 17, 2017 4:14 AM  

Great Society put them back on the plantation. Black "Liberation" tagged every pro-civic behaviour as race treason. Intersectional guarantees every black child is marinated in Participation Trophy and "It's Never Your Fault When You Fail." And only conservative parents home school / fight these trends.

I'll buy your "genetics trumps everything" when you explain how conservative black Christians manage (by magic!) to always be the consistent outliers.

Blogger VD July 17, 2017 5:58 AM  

I'll buy your "genetics trumps everything" when you explain how conservative black Christians manage (by magic!) to always be the consistent outliers.

No, you won't. Because conservative black Christians are not outliers. They have the same low IQs and statistical predilection for inherited diseases that liberal black non-Christians do. And you clearly know nothing of African Christianity.

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself. Genetics does trump everything. Converting to Christianity does not compensate entirely for an absence of 1,000 years of artificial selection.

Blogger Unknown July 18, 2017 6:48 AM  

Regression to the mean is a technical way of saying that things tend to even out over time. The sprinter that breaks the world record will ...

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Anonymous Luke July 19, 2017 7:56 PM  

Vox, exactly so. Black Catholic "priests" in Africa have long been known to routinely "interpret" the celibacy requirement as simply meaning not getting legally married. As AMOGs, they tend to get LOTS of young, pretty (for blacks) tail.

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